New clarity with NC

[Hilltop]

It's been 24 hrs lol, however I found an old post and remember late 2020-early 2021 I had a smaller cut off from my parents and at that time I mentioned a lot of anger.  I have read and done a ton of healing work over the past few years and this time although there are small moments of WTF I mainly feel peace, relief and have this clarity.

1. One of my memories was my mother seeing me in my wedding dress for the first time, she said 'How do I look'.  I have been angry about that since it happened as I saw her as self absorbed, but now I saw the other side I had missed.  What does anyone say to a bride 'you look beautiful'.  What is a reply to how do I look 'you look nice, pretty, lovely, beautiful....'. Essentially my mother set me up to tell her she looked beautiful on my wedding day and withheld saying it to me the actual bride.  I never saw this before.

2. In my teenage years it was my dad who was abusive, the silent treatment, name calling so it was him I thought of as the u/narc.  Later I wondered about my mother but honestly I've been confused about what is going on for most of my life.  It stood out to me that as a teenager one day my dad yelled at me 'If we get divorced its all your fault'.  Its one of those memories that stuck with me.  I remember being confused as to what had I done to cause that. But it was him I blamed the abuse on. Hmmm who was in the background running a smear campaign or causing trouble - mum. Who was giving the idea of divorce - mum considering he was panicking at the thought of it. I didn't see that before. I seem to see the roles clearly now with my mother as u/narc tendencies and dad the enabler.  That of course is no excuse for him, enablers are just as dangerous. I seem to have more clarity with the patterns of behaviour though.

My dads sister invited them to visit her, dad wanted to see her, mum doubled down with a firm no, aunt could come to them. They didn't see her and the relationship crumbled after that.  Dad did not make the 30 min train ride himself, he did as mum wanted. The enabler. I saw many other moments of mum interfering and causing problems within their relationship but only now do I see the actual pattern.  The confusion seems to have lifted.

3.  The anger was slowly turning into bitterness and I was giving up on life and any enjoyment or joy in life.  They were literally sucking my life away from me. The empathy and compassion I once had in abundance, vanishing. Whilst I would love things to be different I am slowly accepting this is the way it has to be. It's safer and there wont be any change and with this new clarity I sometimes feel chills at the cruelty of her actions.

4.  Recently in a phone call my mother told me that after my sisters divorce that my sister regrets estranging herself from people. I didn't say anything.  My sister has estranged herself from me and my mother knows this has hurt me. There was a pause and I heard mum say 'what'. Then she came back to me and said 'well she said she regrets estranging her friends not everybody'.  Message was clear, not me then.  I didn't say anything.  How could I not see the depth of cruelty in that.  Despite that I spent the next two weeks finding my sister on FB pondering whether to reach out, agonising over it before deciding to just let things be for now. Then I was hurt over what mum had said.
This was one sentence in a 40 min dialogue. For that one sentence I was a basket case for nearly 3-4 weeks. The confusion was so strong it didn't occur to me that reintroducing the phone calls were damaging me. No wonder I am tired and depleted with no energy for life.

Any way I am sure there will be stages but the relief is so strong. Its just this wave of relief. The relief that I don't have to stress over the next hit or deal with a current hit.  I can't see myself allowing that back into my life due to the fact bitterness almost took over and the idea of loving them from afar appeals very strongly to me.

[Hilltop]

So clarity in 24 hrs uh no, forgotten clarity maybe. I found a post of mine from 2022 and this is why this forum is so good for healing. For me logging this stuff time stamped has been invaluable as well as the replies and the insight those reply offer.  At this time in 2022, I was only sending a few texts to mum and doing so much healing work on myself.  At this point I was having moments of clarity.  So why did I forget.

I started forgetting after mum suggested phone calls and we started physically speaking again. I fell into confusion. Seeing this in black and white text shows me how disengaging now is the right step especially when I said I love them but its kinder to disengage.  I feel these words now are the right message to walk away with. I see the danger in returning to any communication.

This is probably the first time I now see mum has an illness.  I need to walk away for self preservation or I'll end up drowning in misery. I cannot do the work for her as she couldn't do it for her father. Looking around at all the lost opportunity for relationships, I don't feel anger just what a waste.

I am no longer angry at my sister for the estrangement.  I do not know what wounds she carries if any but does anyone escape.  Looking around, no.

So my healing now will be turning away from the past and moving forward. To be ok with the family I was born into vs the one I wanted. Start to heal that disappointment. In a place I am comfortable in as opposed to the past where I was fighting tooth and nail with what is.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hilltop,

I feel for you. I think that the clarity is there, but we get sucked back in because our mothers are supposed to understand us, and they are supposed to understand how to have good relationships with their own children. Someone was supposed to teach them that.

But they didn't learn how to do that. And we can't teach them. We have our own learning to do.

I also believe it is a kindness to disengage once we realize that what we want to get out of the relationship, is just not going to be possible. Our needs are causing them stress as well - they simply don't have it in them to give.

I went NC after years of trying VLC and it didn't work. I was constantly treated so poorly, that none of my healing work got any traction.

A few sources I learn from have said that when we gain more clarity about our family system, there can be some depression that sets in. Not always, but it is a possibility, because we now see how much waste there was - as you say, there is a lot of waste when people are not able to hold up good relationships with one another in a family.

You are not alone. Estrangement is a sad fact of life for many of us who wanted nothing more than a functional relationship with our own family members.

Trees

[moglow]

...when we gain more clarity about our family system, there can be some depression that sets in. Not always, but it is a possibility, because we now see how much waste there was - as you say, there is a lot of waste when people are not able to hold up good relationships with one another in a family.

That's a fact, Jack, in my world at least. I definitely dip off into depression now and again, but at least not like the pervasive depression I fought for so many years. They're more like blips on my radar now. That waste of time eats at me still - so many years wanting, trying for better. To me this is not what it should have been.

I've talked a lot with my brothers the past few years [after decades of us avoiding that subject -and sometimes each other- entirely], realizing it wasn't just *me*. She's the way she is with everyone really. I truly thought it was all my fault like she told me so many times. I was more vulnerable and stubborn, not willing to give up and face the realities that it was all her choice. We now see so many instances of her trying to pit us against each other. Honestly I feel her goal was divide and conquer - if she kept us apart we couldn't connect and be "against" her. She seems to see that as a win in her favor. So there may be that adjustment for you to work through - and eventually your sister as well.

All along I go back and reread my posts here, and there are clear patterns of her outbursts followed by long periods of relative silence. Sadly, these day I prefer the silence - there's no fear of some anvil hanging over my head. There's no discussion to be had, nothing I care to share with her anymore, nothing she could do or say to change it really.

[Hilltop]

I went NC after years of trying VLC and it didn't work. I was constantly treated so poorly, that none of my healing work got any traction.

This is something I can relate to.  One more hit comes and knocks you off balance.  I am re-reading 'Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents' to do the exercises. Mostly I want to just rest a bit and see what comes up. Do self care etc.

We now see so many instances of her trying to pit us against each other. Honestly I feel her goal was divide and conquer - if she kept us apart we couldn't connect and be "against" her.

Yep same with my sister.  I was just so angry and in one of my old posts you gently tried to show me that my sister may have her own wounds or her own stuff she was dealing with and it may not be about me.  At the time I couldn't see this but with time I get it.  I also see that a lot of the info has come through my mother not my sister even though it was painted as from my sister. I'm not going to make any decisions about my sister. I just don't know but I am no longer angry or hurt. I'm no longer making it about me.

Thank you both for taking the time to reply.  In reading posts from others it has struck me that although details may be different the patterns can be so similar. My plan is to rest and just see what comes up, to calm the nervous system, live in the moment and just observe thoughts/emotions. I'm going to give myself a set time for healing work each day and will start with the exercises from the book so that mostly I am resting and not ruminating. I'm going to mix up some of my day to day activities such as rather than listening to self help books on my commute to work, I'm going to listen to novels I enjoy.  I am already pondering activities I enjoy that I can reengage with but am not doing as I feel so worn out.  I have started to declutter the house.  I have spent the past decade on self help, the past three decades angry, exhausted and hurt.  I guess see how the plan goes but yeah there is a sense of not wanting to waste more time feeling depleted but to reenergise.

[moglow]

You mentioned decluttering ... I moved several times over the past 15+ years and got pretty ruthless about getting rid of things I didn't want or use. A year or so back I decided to rid my home of reminders of mommie dearest and all her bad juju - i put away old pictures with her in them, removed items she'd given me, donated or trashed things I just plain didn't want. 

One was a large set of stainless flatware she gave me 20+ years ago, nothing wrong with it and was actually something I'd have chosen for myself. Only it wasn't. She'd bought it and passed it down when she bought the next set. Everytime I got out a fork or spoon i saw her, that kind of thing. It was petty but it bugged me every time I opened that drawer, every time I had a meal or even a snack. 

One day I bagged it all up and left as a donation in my complex mailroom, free to a good home. It was gone before the day ended, and I ordered myself a new set that *I* wanted! Crazy how that helped me shift my mindset. 

I play music when I clean or cook now, no more silence unless I want or need it. I refuse to clean on Saturdays (the day i always had to clear at her house growing up) other than normal cleanup after cooking - I'll do what needs doing late Friday night or early Sunday morning but not Saturdays. I look for good and happy in little things, and even in difficult people around me. I realized I had to make hard and deliberate choices to not become that woman, and I've come a good way from where I was even a year ago. 

Intentional goodness -for yourself and others- will feel so much better, I promise you. While you may never understand how she got where she is and is happy to stay there, it does release a whole heap of poison you've been subjected to. 

[Hilltop]

Thanks Moglow, that's the type of things I plan to change.  I'm so glad it's been helpful for you.  You are right I'll not understand it fully but I'm ok with that, finally.  Thank you so much.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Hilltop,

Yes to all you wrote here! From what I am learning from that book, it is a process of learning what we enjoy. Too many of us adult children of emotionally immature parents have lived without a good solid knowledge base of what makes us happy from day to day.

Something like deciding what to listen to on your commute can sound insignificant to some people - but to the trained ear, those of us with immature parents know that this can make a big difference in our emotional state that day!

We grew up with a parent whose inner critic became our inner critic, before we were old enough to prevent this from happening. Knowing more about what makes us happy in the now - this is such great medicine to heal our many many past hurts.

Would love to hear what you find helpful from that book! Good luck with the decluttering!! Oh the feeling of a newly organized space. I love just thinking about how you are giving yourself more of that feeling now!

I sorted out one shelf in our kitchen this week, and this small declutter has felt so good. My nervous system gets a little boost every time I look at my newly decluttered shelf

Trees

[Hilltop]

Sounds great Trees, I hope the decluttering continues  .

[Hilltop]

An exercise from the book I found really helped me recently.  It's an shame exercise designed to work out the messages they are giving you and how you are internalising that.  So I wrote down incidents that had happened and how I felt to see what messages I had internalised. I then wrote down what messages I was telling myself about myself such as 'I'm not loveable'. I also wrote down what was happening around the time of the incident and this part was probably the most eye opening for me as it showed me the overall game that was being played.

For eg my mother insults me and although I have seen this it was the first time I noticed that the insults are the cruellest and most overt in the big positive moments of my life such as wedding, buying first house, first overseas holiday etc.  So I could see how in these moments that are suppose to be some of the most memorable she had deliberately done something to take the joy out of it or make the moment less than.  An insult telling me she didn't respect people in my choice of career etc, big insults hitting at every facet of my life designed to take away self worth.  She told me I was difficult, hitting at the very core of me as a person.

I could see that in the times where I was healthier or in a better place, not reacting etc that they would use excluding and shunning me just to let me know I wasn't enough, not liked, to bring me down and put me back into my place.

In the moments I was down, my mother would do something supportive but my father would be doing something hurtful.

When I finally started writing things down and my mother would tell me she was respecting my wishes from what I had chosen, from what I had told her I wanted but in reality I still had the text messages showing the truth - I saw the gas lighting and saw her response of being shocked that I had kept the communication however no response to the fact that what she was saying was not the truth or reality.

When I saw this in black and white and how the actions were routinely done in different situations, how it made me feel, the messages I was internalising because of it and the toll it was taking on my health, it made it clear that it wasn't worth it.  Overall it was continuously attacking my self worth and although I can't be sure what my mother gets out of it or the purpose for it, it became blatantly clear there was no fixing it and just how damaging it was to be around.  I've noticed some people pleasing tendencies coming up in myself, so there are some things I would like to work on.

I am now looking forward to moving onto the more fun exercises in the book about changing goals etc.  It's a process, it's ongoing but at least I am not being dragged down anymore.

[treesgrowslowly]

  

That's great and thanks for sharing about your process with that exercise.

I was just listening to a Gabor Mate video yesterday where he says "we did that before we had a choice in the matter". This is in reference to how we internalized their attitude / beliefs towards us, and as children, we didn't have choice. We internalized it because we didn't have any other choice. Now we have the ability to externalize it.

Sounds like a helpful book of exercises. Keep going with your fantastic work!

Trees

[NotCryingGlitter]

Hi Hilltop,

Yes to all you wrote here! From what I am learning from that book, it is a process of learning what we enjoy. Too many of us adult children of emotionally immature parents have lived without a good solid knowledge base of what makes us happy from day to day.

Something like deciding what to listen to on your commute can sound insignificant to some people - but to the trained ear, those of us with immature parents know that this can make a big difference in our emotional state that day!

We grew up with a parent whose inner critic became our inner critic, before we were old enough to prevent this from happening. Knowing more about what makes us happy in the now - this is such great medicine to heal our many many past hurts.

Would love to hear what you find helpful from that book! Good luck with the decluttering!! Oh the feeling of a newly organized space. I love just thinking about how you are giving yourself more of that feeling now!

I sorted out one shelf in our kitchen this week, and this small declutter has felt so good. My nervous system gets a little boost every time I look at my newly decluttered shelf

Trees

You made some great points about simple things we are able to control or decide, when we can get away.

Quick tip to reduce a re-clutter: I've learned that if you will use a lot of baskets, even in cabinets, things won't get messed up again very bad, because it all stays together, and it's always easy to clean a basket you can pull out and sort out while sitting on the couch or something. I will do that when I have my own place, just to reduce more stress.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I am now looking forward to moving onto the more fun exercises in the book about changing goals etc.  It's a process, it's ongoing but at least I am not being dragged down anymore.

What did she do/say at the wedding? I've already made a decision that, no matter how much yelling I hear after the fact or how long the smear campaign lasts, they will not know when the wedding is. Since it will be a small wedding anyway, the planning will be much shorter, and I'll just say he asked to "elope" (I'll tell him to ask, ha) say that was our version of it -- a last minute thing. Maybe hide the group photos in an album, but only display the ones that make it appear it was just "us" and the preacher. Not sure yet if they will be allowed in the house at that time...hopefully not. I would like to go no contact, or very limited, but I'll probably have to find a middle ground in order to keep things afloat enough to be able to keep some important-to-me family heirlooms later on.

[frogjumpsout]

Hilltop, I'd love to know which book you're using, if you feel okay sharing that? I've gotten a lot out of this thread -- thanks Hilltop, and everyone, and Hilltop, it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

[Hilltop]

Hey NotCryingGlitter, yep I have bought some baskets and they have been really useful for storing things in a tidy way.

Frogjumpsout, there are so many books I have read and also plenty of youtube video's, Jerry Wise and Dr Ramani were recommended here and I found them really good to listen to.  The book recommendations in this forum has been really useful for me.  Thing is I find it better to pick books which you relate to or which you read the summary and you want to read them.  It hasn't just been one book for me, I have read a ton and firstly it was education, then doing the exercises and healing. I am in a much better place but for me NC has given me the space to breathe.

As Treesgrowslowly said "I was constantly treated so poorly, that none of my healing work got any traction", for me this has also been true.  I needed to be away from it for the healing to really sink in and become clear.  NC is not for everyone but for me I wasn't getting anywhere with VLC.

[treesgrowslowly]

I tried VLC and really gave it my best try. I've seen it work for others. I think it totally depends on the way the PD / narcissist handles it. I think that narcissists with an avoidant style are more likely to live with VLC - their avoidant style is a form of half-discarding anyways. They don't really want people in their life very often.

The PD's in my life were much more controlling and demanding. They fed off of people's codependency. It was a big game of "how much supply can I get".

Looking back, I wasn't getting anywhere with VLC with them. It was an on-going power struggle for supply and me pushing back on their demands for more contact than I would allow. Under those conditions, we are almost painted into a corner. They can't get what they really want and their pestering is on-going. My VLC was just not acceptable to them so they never stopped pushing for more.

VLC probably only works if that person is going to give us space to breathe. Glad you got that space Hilltop!

Trees

[Hilltop]

I'm glad you also got that space. Your FOO seem more engulfing.  I suppose mine were more dismissive.  They mocked, showed disdain, regular put downs, treated me poorly.  More of a dismissive, rejecting type.  Honestly they acted like they simply didn't like me but when called out they put on a massive display of gushy affection.  However their ongoing actions were the truth, anyone can pick out a hallmark card with lots of gushy text written in it.

I think its so true though that healing work is harder when the poor treatment is continuing.  Just as you step ahead the next hurdle is there.  It's for this reason I am so glad to step back and out of that.  Although VLC does work for some.

I'm glad you found your space as well.