worried for my child being emotionally/verbally abused by husband.

[starthealing2]

So I posted a bit ago about my 9 year old daughter's recent behavioral changes and tantrums at bed, ect. We have been seeing a counselor for the past few weeks. She is very quiet at the sessions but the things she does say are usually about her dad. She says that he scares her and she doesn't like it when I am away. He definitely is more of a strong discipliner and gives consequences quickly. I have told him that the counselor suggested not to take everything away from her as consequences, especially when she is in a heightened state, but he never seems to listen to this. So when I work nights, she does go to bed for him decently. When I ask her why she goes to bed well for him but not as well for me she always says because he scares her. Recently when I put her to bed and lay with her and her little sister, if he comes in the room, she gets very upset. If he tries to get me to leave her she starts screaming and holding me super tight. The night before last she kept begging me to please not leave because I had to make a quick run to the store after she went to bed. She was crying and telling me don't leave me with just him here. She said he told her that she is killing me in regard to the fact that she doesn't let me sleep much because she wakes up crying frequently, or when I get home from work in the morning she doesn't want me to go to sleep. This really worried me. She told the counselor and I also that he has blamed our marital problems a lot on her because of her behavior and it making us fight more or not sleep together because I stay in the room next to her for comfort. I am really getting worried about how upset she gets to me regarding him lately. He has verbally abused me for years and so part of me just really feels for her because I understand that feeling of being scared and not liking how he talks to you, but I don't share that with her. I encouraged her to talk to her counselor about it but she always just wants me to tell the counselor for her. I don't know how comfortable I am about always telling the counselor because I am afraid it looks bad to come from me as if I am putting these words in her mouth. But she often throws a fit if I have to leave to work or sleep for work and I mean like a big fit! Like panic attack, screaming, not letting me go, yelling at everyone else, throwing things. My counselor also suggested having her evaluated at the pediatrician for anxiety/depression based on the situation at home (I previously talked about this in another post. my husband and I contemplating divorce over the last 3 months, which coincides with her changes in behavior and sleep). The other side of it that is hard for me is when she is clingy to him. One minutes she's telling me she hates him and get him away and so on, but the next she will cuddle on the couch with him or do well at bedtime for him with a hug and kiss and so on. I am so lost on what to think or do with all of this. Sometimes I feel like she is feeling a lot of what I have over the years. For example, if it was a bad night for us fighting and him saying all the horrible things to me, but then I would basically be the one to apologize and beg him to just lay in bed and let me rub his head and sleep together. Now I think about those times and wonder what the heck I was thinking after being talked to the way I was. Anyway, if anyone has any similar situations with their kids being abused in this way or just have any advice about how to handle this or anything I would love to hear it all!! Thank you!

[notrightinthehead]

That doesn't sound healthy. From what you wrote, I would be concerned about sexual abuse as well. I wonder about the therapist, if they are a child therapist they have means of relaxing children and getting them to open up. They can use art, dolls, sandboxes, role play to name but a few.

What really stood out to me- the parent is abusive and it is suggested that the child gets sorted out or even put on medication.

As you wrote that your husband is verbally abusive to you too I suggest that your first step could be to get help for yourself and make sure that you better protect yourself against the onslaught from your husband. Have you studied the Toolbox? Can you find a support group for abused women?

Your kids are young still. It's great that you are taking steps now to better protect yourself and your kids. You don't have to allow him to abuse you. As long as you realize that you cannot change him, only yourself, you are on a good path.

[starthealing2]

Thanks for your input! I honestly don't worry about the sexual abuse. He is still a good dad and person in many ways and I don't think he could ever ever steer that direction.  But he has talked to me badly our whole marriage practically. He definitely has anger issues. He's blamed me for everything our whole marriage for any unhappiness he's had. I know it's hard for a man to be the 'stay at home,' but I think he also has grown to like it. I've asked him recently to start looking for a job and he really is putting up a fight about it. But anyway yes with my middle daughter he is the hardest on. I see so much of me in her and the panic and fear that she voices just worries me. But i know little kids also don't like to have consequences at the same time so I just want to be sure that her fear really is fear of that makes sense. I have started my counseling as well. We also are about to start couples counseling and i am really curious as to whether he's going to hijack the sessions and manipulate them in his favor. Really worried about that! I would love to find a support group for women for sure if I can. I'm sure that would be so helpful! Thank you again!

[Rebel13]

That doesn't sound healthy. From what you wrote, I would be concerned about sexual abuse as well.

I thought of this too, notrightinthehead. starthealing2, please do not dismiss the possibility. Stories are EVERYWHERE of children who didn't get the help they needed because "their dad/stepdad/uncle/brother/neighbor is a good person and would never do something like that!"

I recently read Ingrid Clayton's memoir, "Believing Me." Everyone around her denied and dismissed her stepfather's grooming of her, throughout her entire pre-teen and teen years. It's a terrible story and she does a great job of describing the havoc it wreaked upon her life and how hard she has worked to overcome it. Your daughter doesn't sound like a toddler having tantrums over "consequences." Please do everything you can to protect your children, and yourself, from your husband's abuse. Don't worry about his problems and feelings, since he clearly isn't worrying about yours, or theirs.

[starthealing2]

I definitely won't dismiss altogether but he is way more on the side of violent than that side I believe. I mean, I truly don't even think he would physically ever hurt any of us. Especially since he isn't drinking anymore. His verbal abuse to me over the years has been a lot of name calling, threatening like divorce a lot, saying things to me under his breath so no one else knows, always says I trapped him where we were living by my family and ruined his life, didn't ever want me talking about work to him when I'd come home, never really wants to get to know like my past growing up stuff...in the past 3 years I had about 8 people close to me in some way pass away, and he never was there for me for any of them. He would tell me to let it go and not let it affect our own family. His mom was one of them that passed away and unfortunately our relationship with her was rocky at the time. She was a lot like him, so much so that they butt heads so bad. I would constantly be trying to mend things so that the relationships could be kept, but with that I took a lot of hits from her and him both.  So regarding my daughter, I see how he punishes her more than the others. He blames her for a lot, always assumes she's lying about things, doesn't help he when she's 'hurt' (a lot of the time I think she isn't really hurt but wants the attention--and he will NOT feed into it). If she starts in one of her tantrums or screams he gets really upset and both of them are very hot and heated. He will yell back at her during her tantrums that she cannot do this and has even said he'll call the cops if she doesn't stop, threatens to take everything away (ipad, xbox, little sister out of her room which is one of her main comforts at night)... I even told him the counselor said that you can't keep taking EVERYTHING away from her because she already feels like she has nothing! So then in a condescending voice he starts saying ' oh, are you okay sweetheart.' I just feel so horrible for her. It's no wonder she won't let me leave to work or go to sleep or anything without loosing her mind.   But he doesn't see any of that. He always believe I am the root of the problem and how I don't discipline properly or parent correctly.

[Rebel13]

My heart is breaking for all of you -- you, your daughter, and her siblings. They are surely being affected by your husband's behavior and your daughter's distress, even if they are not demonstrating it in such observable ways. I really hope you can find a way to safety and peace for all of you. Please let us know how we can support you.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm glad you are taking some action, Start Healing. You and your kids certainly deserve much help!

I found being the scapegoated child to a scary, abusive parent to be terrifying.  You are trapped in an environment with someone who is supposed to love and take care of you, but who, instead, leaves you feeling every day that you are contemptible and worthy of derision, harshness,& rage,  rarely kindness or forgiveness -- very emotionally scarring.  I'm not surprised she doesn't want to speak up for herself.  She may be terrified of the consequences.  Hopefully there is not additional abuse of a sexual nature, but if there is it is often accompanied by threats of what they will do if the child tells to be sure the child stays quiet.

Having learned as an adult about personality disorders and splitting (projecting and seeing & treating people as all good or all bad), I understand how this happens and that it has nothing to do with the goodness or lovability of the child.  But that is a hard concept to get at a gut level when you have so deeply taken in the other messages at a vulnerable age.

Marrying such a person and watching the family situation develop so that one of your own children is being scapegoated is also terribly painful and confusing.  Maybe I'm fortunate because I had a fair amount of information under my belt while the kids were still small and I knew this was not in any way the scapegoated child's fault, that it was the result of one parent having a PD.  We tried therapy for a good amount of time and when that did not change things I came to the decision to leave in order to protect my child (which I've never regretted). 

Everyone has their own path to do as your name states, start healing, both ourselves and our children. There are often free resources for members of a family where some kind of abuse has taken place. I was reticent to follow up on those referrals, (it seemed too extreme for our case), but I'm glad I did as it was immensely helpful.   And there are therapists who specialize in trauma and/or PDs, even online if needed. There's also a huge amount of information and helpful posts here to avail ourselves of.  Please keep posting and let us know how you're doing!   

[starthealing2]

thanks so much for all that, looking to be free. I definitely appreciate any resources as this stuff is all new to me. I am so sad for the position that she has been put in. It just breaks my heart. She and I had a little outing the other night for school clothes and she was so happy in the store with me and silly, it just warmed my heart to see her like that. The night was great. Then came bedtime and she had a bit of a rough time falling to sleep while I sat with her. Finally got her to bed and after 2 hours she came out screaming in a panic. Did this about 3 times within the hour, waking up her 4 year old sister that was sleeping with her, so I let them sleep in the bed with me as I worked early in the morning, so we could all get some sleep. In the morning was husband was soooo mad at me! Mad that I gave in to her and let her sleep with me. Mad that I don't do it his way and make her stay in her bed. Started one of the biggest fights we've had in awhile and then the poor sweet thing came up to me when I was crying and said 'mommy did i do this, is this my fault?' My heart broke. Of course I assured her it is never in anyway her fault at all! ughhh just so sad. Then of course I had to go to work and my husband texts me that he's taking all the kids to a hotel for the night!    Of course... you go play with them and be fun dad while mom always works because you wont get a job and then I miss all of it. Last night alone in the house was so incredibly hard. Thinking of this is how it could be soon if we divorce and they are with him sometimes. When I facetimed of course the kids were mostly happy although this one cried on and off missing me... so so hard. I wish leaving was easier, but the thought of what he'll do if I leave is scary... I know he will fight me for everything and then the kids will suffer more because of it.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

As a parent who loves her children, it is heartbreaking, Start Healing.  I also remember how everyone would just kind of pretend there was nothing wrong since no one but the scapegoated child was unhappy -- their dad could be quite fun, in fact.  Just dumped all the anger, blame and negative projections onto the one child. How can the sibs know what's going on?  Probably just believe their Dad that this child is bad.  How awful it feels as a child to know that no one sees it or maybe cares - that your pain doesn't matter in this world.

We saw more than one family counselor, and at least 2 of them told me not to leave him alone with his dad (at a time when my husband wasn't there to hear).  I was mostly able to accomplish this with occasional exceptions.  Easier for me because he worked FT and I was the main caregiver.  If you do talk with a domestic violence worker ever, or a counselor trained in this area, they might have some ideas for how you can work it.  They're very good at helping people plan contingencies and exiting very difficult situations.

The fear that things would get worse for my child, without me there to be a buffer, kept me kind of paralyzed and unable to leave for a while.  But it felt so wrong to allow things to keep going the way they were.  One night I prayed that if it were right for me to leave, the fear would lift enough for me to do it.  That's exactly what happened soon after.  In my case, it worked out better than I ever would have expected, though it's hard to do and I had almost no money.  Boy was it worth it for us, though!  Some healing could begin.

[starthealing2]

Wow Lookin 2 B Free... the things you say just resonate with me so much! I mean I have heard my son talk about what his sister did and how dad's mad and stuff and then I talk to her or assess the situation and I am like seriously, I would feel just like her...like everyone is ganging up on me and no one has my back. I usually take that position for her. This is why I definitely can understand why she has a super hard time when I leave and go anywhere. She probably feels like I am throwing her to the wolves    I definitely don't see him treat the other 2 the same.
I definitely encounter the problem that he is the 'stay at home' so he is with them 24/7 and I work night shift so lately she has been just devastated with I leave and throwing tantrums during that time. I mean she definitely projects a lot at me as well.. its hard to hear and super hurtful, but I know deep down she is just so hurt and confused and kinda feels like I do when I've been beat down from him over the years of verbal abuse. I have to go visit my parents this weekend in another state and he was real quick to make my plane tickets for me when I was still deciding if I wanted to go. I don't know if its him truly trying to be nice (because my dad is sick) or if he is just trying to make a power move and have me out of the house for a few days. Other than work I NEVER leave them  for any trips or anything at all. And now especially with all this going on I am beyond nervous to leave! I worry for her feeling abandoned by me, or getting ganged up on while I am gone. I worry that he will slyly feed them negative words about me. He often says 'you don't' know what they say about you always being gone (I work 3 nights/week, it has NEVER been an issue) and how they miss you and how you shouldn't have to choose work and so on.' He makes a point to tell me that he always sticks up for me! But I just think....the kids never had issues with this before he and I really started to talk about divorce 3 months ago. He HAS to be feeding them stuff..I don't know why else it feels like they all are against me at times and he is 'looking out for me and defending me.' So with that said... I worry about going away this weekend soooo bad, but its also soo important to see my dad 

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm sorry your dad is ill, SH2.  I hope he gets some excellent care.   And I hope you find ways to take care of yourself.  You  have a lot of things pulling at you right now.

I  don't know if it's possible in your case.  When I had to leave, such as being gone for an evening or even a few days, I found someone who could take just the scapegoated child.  It almost always worked well and kept those times from being traumatic for that child.  We all do the best we can.

[starthealing2]

Thats a good idea too... I was trying to see if he'd take them to my sisters as they are the only family close by and the kids love playing with their cousins. That would at least give her a little space and freedom with other family around. Hopefully that will happen and will make me feel better about leaving. I wish I could trust him more to just be gone 3 nights, but unfortunately I dont 

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I also sometimes took him with me, even if it meant missing a day of school.  Anything to keep a child emotionally and physically safe. 

People here always say to be sure to document what's going on.  Keep a record of anything that might be helpful to you in a custody case.  Some people record events as they're happening. You can ask others about this.  Especially in the separating section of the forum. There are some good things to know as you prepare for a possible separation or divorce down the road.  Having a plan of action well in advance is very helpful.

Blessings for your whole family at this hard time.  I hope the trip goes okay.  Let us know how you're doing.