Do narcissists like to call others 'bad people' or narcissists?

[mary_poppins]

Hi. So I noticed an interesting trait in both my narcissistic father and brothers (my two brothers have strong narcissitic traits). When we had a chat somehow they'd slip into the conversation the fact that they think other people are 'narcissists' or bad people.

My father told me once to not look up to my grandmother because she was a bad person (she wasn't, she took care of me as a child like not even my mother could; she was very warm and affectionate). He motivated his saying by telling me that when he was in a hospital long time ago she was praying for him to die. I asked him so how did you know this? He said that his brother in law told him, LOL. He is very close to his brother in law who, btw, is a wife beater and overt narcissistic individual. He has beaten his wife for so many times and my father is proud of being friends with that individual.

Then, my brother 'confessed' to me that our brother is a narcissist and a bully. This brother has put me down and talked bad about me behind my back and he calls my other brother a narcissist? 
It is mind blowing to me that people with narcissism and the capacity to be bad/evil call others bad/evil just. Did they look in the mirror???

I am 100% convinced that my father called me bad/a narcissist back when I reduced and cut contact with him. These people are horrendous. They have zero self-awareness.
Did you notice something similar in your family members? I'd like your input.

[treesgrowslowly]

Quick answer: no, they don't look in the mirror.

They have a very different way of looking at the world, and judging others. Their life is based on getting supply (attention). People that a narc will say is 'bad':

- someone with healthy boundaries
- someone who took away their supply and stopped giving attention to narcissist
- someone who called out the narcissist

As Dr. Ramani has said in many videos, you can't have a healthy relationship with a narcissist. And what you describe, is one of the reasons why. They are friends with those who give them supply, and they bully those who don't. In my FOO it was common for the narcs to invite / exclude people from birthday parties and events, based on who gave them supply. Not based on who they were related to or should be inviting. They would invite strangers, and exclude long time relatives. Why? It was all about the supply...

Trees

[mary_poppins]

Hey Trees.
Your reply is spot on. I easily forget about the part with 'narcissistic supply'. It's easy to forget because one does not live like them (I never even considered getting supply to boost my ego). To get so deep into their own mindset is disturbing. Thanks for describing their way of thinking. Makes more sense to me now.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Oh, I think we look for "supply." I come on here for an ego boost. Along with other, nobler, motives, but yes that is part of it. I think everyone needs attention and validation and praise. Some people just take that need to bottomless pit level and they do crazy stuff to fill that pit and then deny it to kingdom come.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi mary poppins,

It is easy to forget, because they do not tell us that is what is motivating them. I had narc parents. I had to figure this out in adulthood. They never will admit to being manipulative. That is the difference.

We all have needs and relationship needs - but supply is different. It is the opposite of relating in my experience.

They take from us in a way that is manipulative and prevents trust. Non narcs can give each other attention and care and concern, in a way that builds trust. I trust the people here way more than I would trust my narc relatives! 

Trees

[mary_poppins]

Oh, I think we look for "supply." I come on here for an ego boost. Along with other, nobler, motives, but yes that is part of it. I think everyone needs attention and validation and praise. Some people just take that need to bottomless pit level and they do crazy stuff to fill that pit and then deny it to kingdom come.

Yes, we do look for validation-I post on Instagram quite often and it's for validation and to not be forgotten by my online friends. But narcissistic supply is different. I think I didn't quite understand what it means to a narcissist to want/need and get supply. I don't watch Ramani videos anymore or Sam Vaknin but I should go back to 'refresh' my memory.

[mary_poppins]

Hi mary poppins,

It is easy to forget, because they do not tell us that is what is motivating them. I had narc parents. I had to figure this out in adulthood. They never will admit to being manipulative. That is the difference.

We all have needs and relationship needs - but supply is different. It is the opposite of relating in my experience.

They take from us in a way that is manipulative and prevents trust. Non narcs can give each other attention and care and concern, in a way that builds trust. I trust the people here way more than I would trust my narc relatives! 

Trees

Hi Trees.
Thanks you for the text and your explanation. Yes, it's easy to forget. And being in contact with FOO makes me 'forget' because I want to protect myself deep down from the true horror of their nature. For ex, when I read your reply that described how they are I had an anxiety attack later on. It is difficult to process the information on their disorder of personality. Like them 'getting' or 'stealing' from us because they don't want to cooperate with us or ask us to give them something-that is horrifying.

I trust people here, too. I'd leave my dog with them if I left for a short holiday abroad and if I had a dog
     My narc parents would probably forget to feed him or water him or refuse to leash him when outside. They are untrustworthy and downright dangerous.

[Marianne]

Yes.

I think there's three sides.

1. Narcissists blame others.

My ex said several exes were crazy and suddenly quit contact. For no reason. Years later I was the crazy ex who suddenly quit contact. Ex had autism + NPD/ASPD though (expert opinion).

My family does the same. Dad calls his family narcissistic. Himself perfect. And then suddenly his daughter got bipolar/borderline/schizophrenia/whatever he believes at that moment. They told me as a tiny little thing that I was the cause of all the problems in the whole family. When a professional witnessed his behaviour towards me and called it narcissisistc...they suddenly believed me...and my diagnosis was changed to C-PTSD. Since then my dad changed his opinion of my doc from great to crazy.

I did the same though. When they asked me why I sought out ex...I was clueless. And thought I and my family were normal. I didn't know better. I grew up in that. We were all crazy. Ex was just a lot further on the scary spectrum. I am purging all traits from myself. It is really crazymaking....because I see ex was NPD...and dad has traits...and in both cases experts confirmed witnessing that...but I see I also behave strange around my dad. I'm not sure it is always that clear who is victim and who is perpetrator (sometimes it is, but not always).

2. Narcissism elicits narcissistic responses. So people around narcissists start to behave more narcissisticly.

When I am on a weeklong holiday with my friend, who is healthy, we have perfectly normal contact. Good boundaries. Mature discussions. Honesty. Etc. When I have a 5 minute conversation with my dad, I'm immediately drawn into disfunctional dynamics. He will make every conversation into a sneaky duel of power. It elicits narcissistic responses in me. That I do not have around others. I lash out. I point out his problems. I hide vulnerabilities because he abuses them. Even if I behave normal for months, my family tries to draw me back into disfunctional behaviour. As also my disfunctional behaviour elicits bad responses in them.

When I try healthy stuff...like discussing our inner world (feelings, intentions)...setting boundaries in a calm way...reflecting on the disfunction in the family...trying to show we both have good and bad sides...and both are part of the problem...let us solve it together. I'm nearly stoned to death. They find that very frightening...and cannot do it...and try to draw me into crazy responses. And feel compelled to tell me they are perfect and I am evil. Even the slightest hint of them having a role in the problem...elicts aggression. Which in turn makes me overwhelmed and behave stupidly.

So if you are narcissistic...you see more narcissists...because everyone starts to be their most narcissistic version around you. You arouse that in them.  So they rightly see a lot of narcissistic behaviour.

3. There's a whole lot of narcissism in western society if you look out for it

I never recognized manipulative behaviour before ex. Just clueless. Only when he literally told me he manipulated me, I realised...well...people actually are not always what they say they are. Now I know. And I recognize it earlier. And people in the West just... I think our society promotes narcissism. A lot of people are not honest. And the dishonest people often win. Many are superficial liars. And if you are honest, people do not like that.

[Marianne]

In my FOO it was common for the narcs to invite / exclude people from birthday parties and events, based on who gave them supply.

Since I started speaking about our family disfunctionality (including my own, that I openly speak about). I am  excluded from everything. Even the first year after my mum died, the day they remembered her...they secretly did it a few days later...and did not invite me. And told my kid I did not want to come. How cruel can you be? My kid lost his grandma...and could not have his mum there, on the day they remembered her...and they lied to him I did not want to. Idiots.

They said it was because I disagreed with something right before. And then when I reminded them that wasn't the most empathic thing to do, changed it to a more noble reason, where I was to blame.

Interestingly, incest was no reason to exclude a family member. But speaking about incest was.

[Tribe16]

Did you notice something similar in your family members? I'd like your input.

My mom never called me a narcissist, but she told me I lacked empathy.

For about an hour I fretted about myself, "Am I really lacking in empathy? Am I really self-centered?" then the "WAIT JUST A MINUTE..." kicked in. If you've ever taken a Gallup Strengths Test at work, it's a test that has about 200 questions, and sifts those out to determine basically 36 character traits. The test tells you your top 5. My #1 strength is... Empathy. This little exchange was what initially got me researching about projection and transference. (Mom had also called me a hypocrite that weekend...  )

So just know that this is very normal with narcs. They say that when they tell you something that they think YOU are, kind of think of it as a confession from them telling you about their own character flaws.