Dreading next weekend so badly

TimetoHeal · December 21, 2024, 02:40:43 PM

So, my uNPD mother ruined Thanksgiving by having a complete meltdown and venting to my brother the whole time. Thanksgiving is the one day a year that my brother visits and we get to see him, his wife and my nieces and nephews because they live in another state. Since it is the only day my mother sees him, and she is afraid to call him any other time for some reason, she had him cornered in a room alone telling him how terrible her life is, how sick she is, and how she is not sure she can continue to live in her house alone and take care of herself. I was not privy to the conversation, because I chose to actually spend time with my SIL and nieces and nephews who I rarely get to see. My mother didn't even speak to me much that day except to make one snide comment about politics. (She is supposedly so sick she can barely function, but boy, can she rally when it comes to politics). She didn't speak to my two children, her other grandchildren, or her DiL hardly at all. Just my brother.

Anyway, from what I have gathered since then by talking to my brother and to her, she said she was a mess and couldn't take care of herself any more, so my brother immediately started making plans to visit AL places in our town. He said he would come for several days at the end of December, and we could go around and look. My mom freaked out about this, and says she does not want to live in any type of community living. She also freaked out because she doesn't want my brother to stay with her for any length of time. She can't stand for anybody to stay in her house, even one night, which is why my brother's family sadly only comes one day a year now. They emailed back and forth a couple times (he forwarded it to me), and she said she wants him to come just for one day and "go through" stuff in her house, and show her how to do stuff on her computer and clean out her old files. He called me and he asked if I would come go on the tours with them and I said yes, but that she was already saying she would not do this. He asked would I come anyway and help him with whatever the hell it is they are going to do. I reluctantly said yes, because I feel bad for him to have to do this by himself (again, whatever "this" even is).

I feel so stuck in the middle and don't know what, if anything I should do. I really am only trying to help my brother, although I think he is going about this all wrong and not communicating well with my mom (which is a difficult task on a good day). He has already made appointments with a couple of AL facilities. I understand the "why", because he is getting ready to move even further away from where he lives now, and who knows if he'll even visit at all then. He is her POA for some reason (I am actually grateful). He saw his mother "pitiful" on Thanksgiving and feels obligated to do something before he moves even further away to see that she is safe. She is not going to go for it though, I already know. I don't want to be the go between. Part of me thinks I should tell her what he is planning, but part of me thinks that they should communicate between themselves like 2 adults. I would be glad to go on tours with them but I really don't want to be there to "go through" her stuff and listen to her complain even more. It is going to be a draining nightmare. She will use the opportunity to moan and complain, won't let us do anything with her stuff, and nothing will be accomplished. Rinse and repeat.

How do I get out of this? I have already told my brother I would be there. He shouldn't have to do everything himself.

TimetoHeal · December 21, 2024, 02:42:12 PM

I am so sorry, this was meant to be posted in dealing with elderly PD parents. If a moderator could help me move it there, I would be so grateful.

SonofThunder · December 21, 2024, 07:30:18 PM

Hi TimetoHeal,

Sorry the situation is so stressful. Two sentences in your post would be most important in my consideration for myself, if I was in your position.

A. "she said she was a mess and couldn't take care of herself any more"

B. "..and says she does not want to live in any type of community living."

Q1: Do you believe your mom is of sound mind? (Not talking about a personality disorder but rather a degenerative condition due to aging or some other health factor)

If I believed my mother was of sound mind, then I would respect her rights to choose for herself as she stated in sentence B. In addition, I will control my own actions and reactions yet I cannot control the actions and reactions of another adult.

If I believed my mother was not of sound mind, I would contact a qualified professional person who can help assess that cognitive situation, as I may need the legal rights to begin making important decisions on my mothers behalf, for her proper wellbeing.

Q2: Do you believe your mother is correct about herself in sentence A above and that she in incapable of taking care of herself?

If she's still capable, and she is simply playing the victim role because she is a NPD, then I would (if I was in your situation) accept my mothers rights to choose for herself, therefore I would not go along with my brother and mother to look at care facilities, against her desire for herself. He can choose anything for himself he would like to do, but I am under no obligation and/or judgement for not going along and for my own choices for myself.

Q3: If you believe your mother is correct about herself in sentence A, but still of sound mind, would you be willing to assist some awareness to your mother about options such as her hiring a professional person who can assist her at home?

I will not be caring for my mother in her home or mine, but I will assist my sound-minded mother in understanding options. If she's not of sound mind, I will visit AL places on my own or with my siblings once I have the legal authority to make decisions for my mother, who is unable to do so for herself.

Again, my brother controls his own actions and reactions, but not mine. I will also not caretake (Fjelstad) my mother or my brother to pacify their own created drama.

Wishing you the best,

SoT

TimetoHeal · December 21, 2024, 08:20:05 PM

SoT,

Thank you so much for your reply, especially since I managed to post in the wrong forum!

I think my mother is mostly of sound mind, but some things she says make me wonder if she might be showing the beginning signs of dementia. Things like it taking her an hour to compose an email or make an online order for a Christmas present. She struggles with things online especially, which may be partly age-related (she has never been particularly tech-savvy). For example, last year, she accidentally ordered 6 of the same gift for one person. But it seems to be getting worse. She does not show obvious signs of forgetting things like dates, people's names, etc. or repeating conversations, and she does not seem to be out of touch with reality, at least any more than she has ever been due to her PD. So, yes, I think she is capable of living alone, even if she does have the beginnings of some type of mental decline. Physically, she is in pain constantly, I think as a result of fibromyalgia/arthritis/depression, but she can walk, shower, dress herself, feed herself, etc. She just can't go upstairs, but there is no reason for her to go upstairs in her house, as everything she needs is on the ground level. As an aside, I have offered/suggested going with her to a doctor to get help for, as she sees it, her anxiety and "nervousness". She will say she will go with me, but then usually has an excuse come closer to the appointment why she can't go. When I have gone with her in the past, she tells the doctor everything is fine, she just needs her sleeping pills.

I am thinking that the visits to AL facilities will not happen. So, I'm debating whether or not I should go over there that day or not. I just wish I knew what the plan was without having to go back and forth between her and my brother due to them not conversing with each other. I am already planning to see her for a couple of hours on Christmas Day (sigh...), so maybe I can find out more information then. It feels disloyal to my brother not to show up when he is driving in from out of town, when I already told him I would. But I am not going to show up and try to convince her to do anything against her will. It will not go well.

TimetoHeal · December 21, 2024, 08:23:59 PM

Quote from: SonofThunder on December 21, 2024, 07:30:18 PMI will not be caring for my mother in her home or mine, but I will assist my sound-minded mother in understanding options. If she's not of sound mind, I will visit AL places on my own or with my siblings once I have the legal authority to make decisions for my mother, who is unable to do so for herself.

Again, my brother controls his own actions and reactions, but not mine. I will also not caretake (Fjelstad) my mother or my brother to pacify their own created drama.

I feel like I need to print these two paragraphs out and recite them as a mantra! Thank you so much!

SonofThunder · December 21, 2024, 09:07:32 PM

Happy to come alongside in support with these difficult situations we Out of the FOG friends face because of PD drama in our lives.

You wrote:

"due to them not conversing with each other."

And..

"when he is driving in from out of town"

Both of those are 100% his decisions and imo have no bearing on you. You also wrote:

"when I already told him I would."

You have just as much adult-right to change your mind as he does and you have very strong reasons as well, because you stated she's of sound mind and therefore her rights to choose for herself are upheld. Would it be polite to inform him in advance of any change of plans you may decide for yourself?

He may end up changing his mind as well because trying to take her himself is a 1v1 versus a 2v1.

Lastly, I believe it's very lovingly attentive that you are aware of the specific types of changes you are noticing in her that have to do with aging and limitations that coincide. Because you are a noticer, you will probably be well aware also when/if she becomes unable to care for herself. Well done TimetoHeal!

Enjoy your strong self-protection and confident decision-making for yourself, balanced with respect for other's rights to choose for themselves.

In camaraderie,

SoT

treesgrowslowly · December 22, 2024, 05:27:33 AM

Hi TimetoHeal,

Agreeing with everything SoT wrote to you about this.

Thanks for sharing what you are going through. It is good for us to show up for each other here during times like the one you're having.

So if your mom knows that your brother plans to move even further away from her soon, that would explain a lot of her anxiety and her behaviors wouldn't it? She sounds emotionally trauma bonded to him - from what you describe. She cornered him on his Thanksgiving visit, and focused on herself all day and telling him things that she should be telling a therapist. That is a sign that she's full of anxiety, and maybe feels that he's 'abandoning' her. She herself may have no idea why she feels the way she feels lately. She's aging, she has pain issues, and she doesn't have enough coping strategies in place, from what it sounds like.

Her attempts to solve her problems do not seem to be solving her problems do they?

I've had plenty of emotionally immature people in my life, throughout my life, and so when you described your mom's behavior I was like yep, this all sounds VERY familiar. They get into this self-absorbed state and it is all about getting attention. She wants your brother to rescue her, and now he's wanting you to be involved. I am glad you see through this, in the fact that you being involved in touring AL's with him, probably won't help the situation at all.

You're listening to your gut which we all have to learn how to do here in these families. I totally concur with SoT, there is support and then there's caretaking. You want to discern the difference, which I see you doing by writing about how you know that she's not going to want anyone to move her into AL.

Support is offering to go to the Dr's with her. Caretaking is, well, we all know what caretaking is...

Boundaries in these families are hard right? You want your brother to understand that yes, you could go tour an AL with him, for whatever that is worth, but that you're just doing it because he asked you to, not because you think it is a solution to the problem. What I see in your writing is that you want to support your brother, but you don't want to caretake (i.e. enable), and you see that enabling, just causes more confusion for the 3 of you. Good for you for seeing that!

You wrote that it feels disloyal to your brother, if you backed out of visiting the AL's with him. It's not disloyal, it is something he decided to do on his own - visit AL's. He is an adult, he's perfectly capable of touring an AL on his own. Often, it isn't about the request (i.e. will you come tour this AL with me), its about the other stuff your brother may want from you right now. Is he wanting to loop you in so that your mom leans on you more, because he's moving further away, and it would help him, if he knew she had someone else to lean on? Does he feel conflicted about being her POA?

There could be more going on for your brother, than whether you go with him on some short tours of AL's. Whether he admits that or not, you would know more than us. If he's in his FOG, he could be acting out of guilt. Or maybe he's not foggy and he's just wanting to see the AL's in person, when he's in her town over the holiday.

If he is pro-actively touring the AL's in her town because soon he won't be able to travel there easily, that makes sense. But that doesn't obligate you to tour those ALs with him the same day. Maybe he just wants to see them in person, to see which AL's in her area he liked the best, for when the time comes down the road, for her to consider one. If I lived far away, I might use my time in her town to just check out the AL's in person, even if the move is years away.

One of the lessons for all of us to learn here in this forum is that other relatives FOG (especially sibling FOG), is not our fog, and we have to learn how to see their FOG as theirs - not ours, to fix.

It is not easy to calm down an aging parent with anxiety and poor boundaries. Ideally she would talk to a therapist about her anxiety, since I do wonder if that is a culprit in alot of the stuff you are seeing in her. When we are stressed, we forget things, and getting help for her anxiety could improve how she feels from day to day.

Trees

TimetoHeal · December 22, 2024, 04:54:15 PM

Thank you so much, Trees and SoT!

SoT,
I appreciate the kind words about me being an observer. I actually use that gift daily in my career in a helping profession. I try often to see my mom objectively, as if she were one of my clients. It's easier said than done when emotions are involved, but it does help.

Thank you also for the reminder that I have the right to change my mind if I want to. I think you're right my brother may decide not to come if I am not there.

Trees,
You are spot on that the biggest thing that needs addressing with my mom is her anxiety, before any kind of move or anything. I have encouraged her to get help numerous times. I will keep trying. And oh my goodness, what you said about her having a meltdown after my brother announced that he was moving! I didn't even put two and two together somehow!

He and my SIL made the announcement on the same day, and she had the meltdown right afterwards, after telling them she was "happy for them". I guess it didn't register because I was trying to mostly stay out of it and play with the kids and tune out her nonsense. But that is exactly what happened! And yes, my brother is definitely in his own FOG, and I have to accept that. I can see where only seeing her once a year, and then walking into her in that state would be jarring. But I see her much more often, and I know this is just how she is. I think he thinks he can just come in an fix everything in a day. Ha! Good luck with that! If only.

Before I read you all's replies, I made the mistake of confiding in a friend who is wonderful and supportive, but does not "get it" at all. She thinks me and my brother ought to gang up on her and go in guns blazing and almost force her to move into AL!

Somehow, listening to her, it kind of made sense. But I knew in my gut, that was NOT the way to go. I'm glad I came here and got support from people who have BTDT, so to speak. Thanks again, you guys.

treesgrowslowly · December 23, 2024, 08:10:20 AM

Hi TimetoHeal,

Ha! you taught me something new! "BTDT" is a short cut I don't think I've seen before. The folks here definitely have BTDT.

The specific topic of getting a aging parent into AL has come up on the boards regularly over the years, you could search the threads if you want to read what others have said about that whole topic. The word that gets used a lot is "old age facility" or "care home" since we have members from all over the world and each country uses a different term for AL.

Honestly, its great that you focused on playing with the kids that day and tuning out her nonsense. It sounds like you had 1 day to visit with your relatives and you spent it the right way.

Keep trusting your gut and yeah, talk to folks who have BTDT!

Trees

TimetoHeal · December 27, 2024, 03:42:39 PM

Update: So, I got a "Get Out of Jail Free" card for this weekend! My mom absolutely put her foot down about going to visit AL facilities, and brother did not push it. She said as long as she is in her right mind, she would fight tooth and nail to stay in her house. So be it. Brother was still going to come and do her bidding for a day, whatever that may entail, which I thought was ridiculous, but I stayed out of saying anything about it, believing that was between the two of them. I was still debating whether or not I would make an appearance, more just to see my brother than to do anything for my mom. Then today, she texts me and said she begged brother not to come because the weather is going to be treacherous tomorrow (it is) and she would be worried about him driving here in it (I was too honestly, but again, said nothing). Brother replied, "Okay, no problem" and I replied the same!

Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy!

Sneezy · December 27, 2024, 04:53:59 PM

I'm glad you got out of visiting AL places. That is no way to spend a weekend. Honestly, in my experience, there's not a lot of sense in looking until the time comes when your mom is truly committed to moving. These places often fill up and you don't know which places will have openings if/when your mom ends up moving.

As far as actually getting your mom to move - that is really tough to do. It is very difficult to get a court to declare someone incompetent, so that you can be appointed guardian and then decide where they live. I don't have guardianship of my mom. I am her power of attorney and so I could sign a rental agreement for her at memory care. We moved her there straight from a hospital stay, and she has not attempted to move out, which I am thankful for every day. But that's memory care, which is different from assisted living. AL means the person can still live somewhat independently, with extra help for things like laundry and medication management and meals. So you really need the elderly person's buy-in to get them to AL.

As for your friend who had the idea of practically forcing your mom into AL. Well, that might work with a parent who loves and trusts their children and is secure enough to believe that her children are doing what is best for her. But we are dealing with elderly parents who are insecure and suspicious and do not trust anyone. Plus, they are perfect and don't need any help, right?

SonofThunder · December 27, 2024, 06:37:27 PM

Glad to read the update, TimetoHeal. Bravo!

SoT

TimetoHeal · December 28, 2024, 01:24:56 PM

Thank you, sneezy! You are so right. I had no clue about all the ins and outs and legalities of all this until I started reading here. All I know is somehow, my mom got her father into AL when he was just a little bit older than she is now, and they screamed and cursed each other every day for the rest of his life.

You're right about what my friend said too. Which, ironically, did not work for her MIL, because she and her husband tried for years to get her into somewhere safe, and it wasn't until she fell and broke a hip and then HAD to go into a nursing home that she left her house. I'm continuing to read and learn here with the search engine, and I realize we are no where near getting my mom to leave her house voluntarily or otherwise. Of course, that could change quickly when someone is older and doesn't take care of themselves.

Thanks, SoT! I am sitting here under my favorite blanket, sipping coffee, petting my cat, and relishing having absolutely nothing I "have" to do today!

I have been able to see so clearly how this is my mom's pattern over the last few years. Have a meltdown because she's not getting enough attention, cry "the sky is falling", see how much she can get her kids worked up and what they will do to come to her aid, then quickly, almost immediately walk it back and refuse any help because everything is fine. My children and I visited her on Christmas Day, and she was miraculously just fine. No meltdowns, no confusion, talking about how everything she needed was right there in her house. She didn't need anything or to need go anywhere. Didn't even need any help, except maybe to get her tax files in order. She showed me her tax files, and they are more organized and neat than mine! I took one look and turned around and was like, "You're good". Maybe the next go round, brother and I won't react at all...