Oppositional Friend: How to deal with constant opposition?

[countrygirl]

Hi,

I have a friend who loves to stay in contact, but I'm starting to feel that one reason for this is because she wants to unload anger.  Often, she seems really vested in opposing whatever I say. One memorable time, I was trying to decide whether to have the outside of my parents' house spray painted or hand-painted.  (To tell you the truth, I don't know if those are the correct terms.)  After conferring with a recommended house-painter, I chose the cheaper choice, which the painter said would work well for this large farmhouse.  I casually mentioned this to my friend, who immediately started saying my choice was wrong.  I told her I'd conferred with the painter, and that I was choosing the method I could afford. 

I thought no more about it, but a few days later, she called to tell me that she'd gone into a hardware store, which just happened to be near the diner where she and her husband have breakfast, and had asked which choice was better.  Of course they had said that her choice was better.  (Should add that she had never had a house painted.)

I don't mind if people disagree with me.  Differing opinions can be interesting and considering things from someone else's perspective can help you to have an open mind, but this constant opposition is something else entirely.  This morning, she called while she was driving to her stable, merely to tell me, yet again, about how wrong I was about something.  The weird thing this time is that it was something she'd always been against, but as soon as it emerged that I was also against it, she has had to take the opposite tack. And, over a few years, whenever the topic arises, she now defends this method, even though she's never used it; and, as I said, before I said I didn't like this method either, she always spoke against it. She reminds me of what my mother used to say about people like her:  That they "would argue with a signpost."

I wish I could explain what this particular disagreement is about, but it has to do with horse training, and I know I would bore everyone to tears.  Suffice it to say that "my" method is based upon what I know, and the vast majority of horse people know, to work well for horses and to help them develop in a way that helps their muscular development. The method she is now championing was abandoned because it was not good for the horse.

I wrote a friend about this, also a horse person, and he said that what she was saying, that she was now using this outmoded training system was well, horse manure, that she didn't use any method.  He said she was only extolling this method because she knew I was opposed to it--as she used to be, and probably still is.

I picture her, making the short drive to her stable, and just deciding, for the heck of it, to call and irritate me. We had not been discussing this, I was just sitting here, lost in a book. It felt like a surprise attack!  By the way, she has been kicked out of stables for behaving the same way toward stable managers and owners.  Horses can be dangerous, and responsible stable managers need to stay in charge, or someone can get hurt. She would argue against their rules, trying to convince them that they were wrong.

I can find this person interesting to talk to, and have bene supportive of her for many years--as she and her husband have had various problems in their lives.  But I just can't deal with constant opposition.  This morning, I told her that if she found something worthwhile in this form of training that this was good, but that she knew how I felt about it and that I didn't want to hear about it. I have had to work with horses which have been trained by this method, and it is very frustrating, to say the least. In fact, I am dealing with an issue because of this form of training at the moment, which my friend know.

Well, after I asked her not to talk to me about it anymore, she then she claimed that she was using this method, which I know she is not, and so she had to pay attention to it.  My husband arrived home at this juncture, so I said I had to get off the phone to talk with him.  She sounded really angry at that.  She'd called to unload on me, and I wasn't allowing it. 

She strikes me as one of these people who let's a lot of anger build up--she is not treated with respect at the stable, but takes no responsibility for that--and then looks for somewhere to dump it.  I can't take it anymore.

It is sad, because she does have good characteristics, but I guess we can say this of all Ns--if she is an N.  We have tried to get along with them, to give them leeway, but too often we end up getting hurt while they go about their merry and angry way. I consider this person a friend, and have been there for her through so much in her life, that I still find it hard to believe that she is behaving this way.  Why would you WANT to call a friend just to argue with them?

[Rebel13]

This morning, I told her that if she found something worthwhile in this form of training that this was good, but that she knew how I felt about it and that I didn't want to hear about it.

This sounds like a great way to handle the exchange! It sounds like you stated your feelings and position very clearly while leaving room for her to have a different opinion.

Sometimes, people like to persist with this kind of thing, so determinedly changing the subject after saying your piece can distract them. "I don't want to talk about X anymore.  How are things going with Y?"

Why would you WANT to call a friend just to argue with them?

I've never really understood what people get out of arguing, but I know some people seem committed to it. In the article on JADE in the Toolbox, it is mentioned that some people find some kind of pleasure or charge in rehearsing/rehashing their point of view. The feeling of justification releases endorphins for them, or something. As I said, I don't really understand that, but I have experienced the phenomenon.

If you need or want more techniques and strategies for coping with this, medium chill might be a good one to look at. When your friend starts arguing with you, instead of arguing back, you could say things like, "Huh, that's interesting," or "Thanks for sharing," or "I hadn't thought of it that way." As the article states, tone can be important, depending on whether you want to preserve the relationship, extend affection, or simply end the argument. But it sure sounds like you are really clear about the dynamic and handling it great so far.

[countrygirl]

Hi Rebel 13,

Thanks so much for your reply.  And thank you for saying I'm handling it well. 

To tell you the truth, I am worn out from her.  She just loves to argue.  Maybe she does get an endorphin release from it.   I do not.  My mother loved to be oppositional, and so I wasn't raised in a peaceful environment.  Now, I relish just having peace.  I was having a good time with my book this morning (Atmosphere, by Taylor Jenkins Redid), and shouldn't even have picked up the phone.  I'm going to start withdrawing from her.  I've given her too much of my time and energy.   

Thanks for reminding me of the Toolbox.  I need a refresher course, so to speak.  May you have a peaceful evening!  I wish peace for all!

[1footouttadefog]

This sounds really unhealthy.

Many dynamics you shared are similar to what I was putting up with from a woman I just had to separate myself from.

That she treats others this way, lets you know it's not about you, and that it is her issue. 

She is jealous of you in some way and is being triggered by the example you are setting and she feels the need to lash out and knock you down.  Of course here lashings don't really change who you are they just change her brain chemistry and being her relief at your expense. 

She will likely back bite, gossip and try to ruin your reputation of you remain on her radar screen.

[SeaBreeze]

This sounds like an exhausting cycle with your friend. Certain tools can definitely break these circular discussions rather than lock you into them. It can be hard to disengage but it can spare you alot of time, energy, and grief.

I had similar issues with both ex-H #2 and a longtime friend. Both will openly solicit advice from others. Only to argue and shoot down every suggestion offered. In ex's case, he would then demean, scold, or mock me for my apparently horrible ideas. In friend's case, she asks on social media then spends days arguing with every single comment from every single person. After a few years, I noticed she posts the same questions about the same issues, but she has haver actually acted on any of them. I finally unfollowed her and am VLC with her outside social media. I'm not saying ex or friend have to follow every piece of advice, but why ask for it just to argue, and about all of it? Ex-H finally said I was his sounding board; I told him well, sound off to someone else!

I also have a beloved adult child (my eldest) who argues just to argue. What one of my grandmothers might have called a contrarian. Thing is, he's an excellent debater. Maybe should run for political office! But I've set loving boundaries with him that I do not enjoy debating with him, so he and I focus on the many things we enjoy discussing together instead. Thankfully he respects that, which helps a lot.

The older I get, I find I'd rather give my energy to healthier relationships and endeavors. I hope you find healthy boundaries with your friend, whatever those boundaries may look like.

[SeaBreeze]

+Wanted to add: if someone just needs to vent and wants the other person to listen, I can understand getting grumpy when the listener interjects with unsolicited advice. In the above examples, however, my ex and my friend both openly asked for thoughts, suggestions, advice, only to argue rather than discuss.

[countrygirl]

Thank you for your replies, 1fooutouttadefog and SeaBreeze! Individual replies to each of you appear below.

1footouttadefog,  Yes, the term "contrarian" truly fits this person.  And her lashings out do just give her relief, by changing her brain chemistry,at my expense. That is very well put; I will remember it.

I think what she is jealous of is of whatever someone has which she doesn't.  And that is not limited to material objects, but encompasses knowledge about anything, even about something you've read in the paper which she hasn't read yet.

SeaBreeze, Like your friend, my friend spends a lot of time on social media arguing with people.  Then she argues with me on the phone or in emails.  Like both your friend and your ex, she asks advice, only to tell you why your advice is wrong. (I agree that it's understandable if one disagrees with unsolicited advice.)


I can related to what you say about your adult child and debating.  Sometimes, no matter how brilliant a person is, you just don't want to communicate by debating!  One friend constantly wanted to argue with me, and when I said I didn't want to argue, she said that she enjoyed debating, and had been on a debate team in college.  Well, I had been on one in high school, but didn't want to debate with friends!  Besides, unlike your son, this friend was not a skilled debater.  In fact, she refused to debate at all.  She would solicit my opinion, then tell me why I was wrong.  And if I ever asked her a question, usually mean to clarify her "position," she simply wouldn't answer.  Silence isn't much of a debate!

Writing about all of this raises a few more things I'm may post here. 

[notrightinthehead]

countrygirl, I have been thinking what I would do in your position. It seems she lays a trap by asking your opinion, only to contradict whatever opinion you have had. If I was willing to play that game with her, I would be unsure, have not really thought about that before, would not really know what to think, would be wondering what else would come into play before deciding what to think, and then ask her - do you have an opinion on that issue?  Trying to force her to show her hand first. And then I would wholeheartedly agree with her. If she really just wants to be contrarian, she would then switch her position in order to disagree with me, and again I would totally agree with her. As if I had never held another opinion.

I had a friend, with whom I played that game and it took her a while to see through my tactics. Eventually she said - you are just repeating whatever I say. Needless to say, we are no longer friends. I lost my usefulness for her, she could no longer feel superior by belittling my opinions.

[countrygirl]

Hi Notrightinthehead,

I always smile when I read your user name.  (Have thought of changing mine, if I could figure out how to do so!)

I think your idea about dealing with my contrarian friend is brilliant.  I have thought about saying the opposite of what I really think about something then--when she says the exact opposite is correct--telling her that I agree with her, that I was just proving to myself that she would always disagree with me. However, your tack is much better.

I will try to get her stop show her hand first, then agree with her.  Then, when she disagrees with what I've said, I will wholeheartedly--to use your word choice--agree with her again.

To tell you the truth, I think it would take my friend quite a long time to see through this, but I'm going to try it. I have tried confronting her, tried not caring, etc., etc. This is who she is.  It's not as if it's an occasional issue which I could work through with her. 

I like your closing sentence:  "I lost my usefulness for her, she could no longer feel superior by belittling my opinions." I think this is the crux of the matter. I think people like your former friend and my friend do really lack self-confidence, and this behavior is to make them feel superior.  I see that about my friend, and have put up with a lot because I know it is not easy to be her.  On the other hand, most people are not bubbling over with confidence--I certainly am not--and if you're around someone who constantly disagrees with you, it's not good for your own ego, not to mention that it can be a blight on your day.

 

[countrygirl]

This is just a short postscript.  I had the perfect opportunity late this morning to try agreeing with my oppositional friend, but then just couldn't bring myself to do it!  What she was saying was so off-base that I couldn't go along with it.  Maybe I just need to build up to it.  I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm not quite understanding, CountryGirl, how she is an actual friend to you.   It doesn't sound like a friendship to me.

I used to befriend anyone who wanted to have a "friendship" with me as though I was obligated and they were entitled by virtue of them wanting something from/with me.  Then believe I had to be understanding of and loyal to them.

I had a long term friendship with someone that had been wonderful and supportive and changed into something a little like what you're talking about. I tried setting boundaries ("I don't want to discuss this topic anymore"), tried to kindly clue her in that this wasn't okay for me.  She had stopped treating me like a friend and started treating me like an enmeshed dysfunctional family member, which I couldn't stand.  I started dreading hearing from her. 

I knew she'd been anxious and depressed and had hoped I could be there for her to help her through a hard time when she had become isolated.  I knew she would probably drop me if I was really assertive, as she had all others.  It took me about 2 yrs to finally decide that I just needed to confront her (as thoughtfully as possible) about her behavior pattern with me and let her know what's acceptable to me in a friendship.  She ghosted me, which is fine with me.

Yes, difficult people have good traits also.  But if a relationship isn't giving me mostly positive rewards for my life, and without having to put up with unacceptable behavior, it's not worth having anymore  for me.   

[countrygirl]

Hi Lookin 2 B Free,

I applaud you for standing up to this person and then moving on.  I may reach that point with this friend, but it may take me a little longer.