She’s learned nothing.

[Call Me Cordelia]

My in-laws have more or less discarded my DH after I went NC with them. Notably, after a failed hoover at Christmastime, they told their son that if I wouldn't get back in line there's not much point to their relationship either.

There have been some shenanigans with DH being in touch with his sibling here and there, but overall, the discard/ST still holds. Definitely from his father.

Now my MIL has informed DH she's coming to visit our city, with very little notice. DH responded that was a terrible idea, but she's coming, travel booked. She threatened to do this a few years ago but backed down because my DH told her in no uncertain terms it would not work to reconcile matters with me. So I have no idea what she hopes to accomplish here. Providentially we had already been making plans to be out of town. But I'm just so stinkin' disgusted. This is just so stupid. It's been seven years, woman, of being just done with your intrusiveness and entitlement. And here you are.

[NarcKiddo]

Wow. Just...wow.

[Defiantdaughter1]

If she plans to stay at your house or visit, make the home environment so bad she wants to leave. Don't take out the trash or clean the commodes for a few weeks. Turn off the water so she can't shower. That would be enough to make me leave somebody's house and never go back!

[treesgrowslowly]

They don't learn. It is so true. They have their own reality.

I hope you are still able to keep your plans, to be out of town during her visit?

Trees

[Call Me Cordelia]

Absolutely yes, Trees. She doesn't learn, but DH can. He went ahead and booked our own tickets we had been discussing pretty much immediately.

[Rebel13]

Oh goodness, Cordelia, I'm glad you are dodging this bullet! I'll be curious to hear if you get anything more in the way of "explanation" from her.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm kind of on a need to know basis as far as hearing about MIL goes. But she definitely expected to see DH. This is a pattern with her. She expected  to see him recently when they were both in the same city (for him it was work). But only left about a few hours open to him during the work day. What a disappointment. And an easy excuse. But she couldn't let it alone after that.  sShe doesn't ask, she informs, and doesn't consider that maybe she just doesn't get to dictate to a grown man with his own family who doesn't want to see her anyway.

[treesgrowslowly]

Narcs are notorious for doing everything from a victim mentality. It took me a long time to realize this. I could not figure out why they made such crazy plans, where they would just not know how to do this 'properly' i.e. plan visits, meet up with people at a good time of day, work around their schedules etc...

Then when I realized that they are in victim mode, basically all the time, their crazy behaviors made more sense to me. They do something crazy and then they get to complain about it (if they have anyone left in their life who will listen to them!). There they are again, the victim of someone not doing what they wanted.

Your detachment from her is fantastic in my view. So glad DH gets it now too! So glad your trip is booked!

Trees

[bloomie]

Call Me Cordelia - YIKES!!! 

Thankful you and DH are on the same page and out of town when mil makes her grand visit. Whew!

Count me in as another who sees your 'need to know' status as fabulous! Well done!

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm really angry about the whole thing this morning. To tell the truth, by skipping town we are actually doing MIL a major favor. Part of me really wants to let her have it.  Not that that would do any good. I am
also feeling that by leaving our own home and feeling grateful for surveillance technology, we're being the crazy ones.

I know it's better not to be looking over my shoulder the whole time for a lawn tantrum that may never happen. Been there done that with my own parents. It's truly the worst. I'm not really changing my mind. I'm just angry and really don't know what to do with it in this moment, due to needing to be normal and keep life normal for these children who thanks be don't know just how messed up their family tree is. So back to expressing it here. And then to packing. Which is always a major job and I don't have great executive functioning at the moment. Arrrrghhhhhh.

[bloomie]

Call Me Cordelia - By avoiding stressful, unproductive, unwanted contact with a high conflict person who is inserting themselves without invitation into your good and happy lives you are using a wise tactic. A healthy tactic.

Choosing to not engage and to go do something as a family you were already planning/talking of doing is wisdom. Not cowardice, not crazy, not taking the easy way out. Simply exercising your right to choose when and if you want to engage and suffer the cortisol dump that comes with hypervigilence and being a bit trapped in your own home due to the rudeness and entitlement of others. That's what this looks like on my side of this screen.

And, yep! You are angry! You don't want the specter of this nonsense over your life and this trip as a family.

I am really sad this is happening and yet, it seems like possibly it was inevitable and has to happen in order for your mil to once again get the message that you all are not gonna play. Consistent messages are kind to you  and to others.

You are choosing peace and family time! Bravo!

[treesgrowslowly]

I personally think that the desire to let them have it, is a healthy reaction to this insanity that they cause. Not that acting on this desire would result in anything. But this is why a therapy session, with a person you feel safe being honest with, can be so helpful to those of us with narc parents. We may feel better if we get a place to say all the things we want to say, to get them off our chest. Someone who lets us say all the angry things, so we can get them out.

I think that is why the unsent letter space in this forum is so valuable. We were wronged, our boundaries were crossed and we may have been emotionally abused by this person. Why not let them have it in a letter we'll never send them?

I also have learned that the desire to yell at my abusers, is a sign of not feeling safe. When I feel safe, and I know they can't hurt me anymore, verbally or psychologically, I don't feel the same as when I am in look over my shoulder mode. I feel for anyone who is in that mode because it is real. Sometimes we do have a narc in our life who is unpredictable with their behavior and we know we have to look over our shoulder.

For me, there are places that if I have to go, I do not stop even for gas, because my narc relatives live nearby and I would not want to see any of them at a gas station or wal mart. You know? So that "looking over my shoulder for the narc" feeling is real.

Your MIL isn't reliable and isn't safe (i.e. psychologically safe) and may or may not be predictable in her behaviors. That wears on us psychologically. We get it. Use this place to vent!

Then there's the anger that I think is actually grief. When we realize this is a sh**ty MIL and we wanted a good MIL. I have that anger at times. I wanted a good MIL!! I'm grieving for everything I won't ever experience because this person is a disordered dud. It is ok to admit we are angry about it. I just wanted a decent working relationship with a decently healthy MIL but no, I didn't get that. Neither did you. It sucks. It's ok to admit it!

Trees

[Call Me Cordelia]

Thank you again, Bloomie and Trees. You are both so wise. Opting right out of pointless and unwinnable wars is the right thing to do. AND having the mess periodically flung at our doorstep against all my desires is infuriating and brings on another wave of grief.

When we were out with our family there were three grandmotherly ladies we encountered at separate times over the weekend who admired our baby and exclaimed how blessed we are. They were sweet, and correct, but the experience was definitely tinged with grief for me, because of who the actual grandparents here are. It was a bitter consolation.

As far as MIL goes, no news is good news.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Call me Cordelia,

There is a lot of grief. I have found that even really good therapists do not totally get how much grief is involved for us.

It is shocking when others can be nice and our own relatives cannot. Their disorder prevents them from being kind and from being people we are safe with. I had a wave of grief hit me recently regarding my MIL. We are estranged. I did not want the estrangement, I wanted her to realize that things don't work when she acts the way she acts. But she is stuck. And will never wake up. And i have to accept that.

Trees

[bloomie]

Call Me Cordelia - oh, how I wish your mil was healthy enough to be a safe haven, to lavish love and admiration upon your children, to support and champion your DH and you and do all within her power to bolster and honor your sacred union and the family you have built together.

The consolation I can offer is that someday, like me, you will most likely be a mil and a grandmother and when that happens you will go forward empowered and filled with grace, respect and love. The greatest joy of my own life has been to establish healthy, loving, honest and authentic relationships with my children and grands. I have been informed... schooled... tried and tested by a mil who brought a great deal of unnecessary pain and struggle to our lives. I am thankful for the lessons that brought me and even the grief of it all because it has shed light on the path forward.

The generational dysfunction your mil attempts to taint your FOC with has ended and will not be passed on as legacy to your family! You and DH, your precious kiddos, are going forward in health, determination, and filled with love for one another! You are fierce!   

[Cat of the Canals]

She doesn't ask, she informs, and doesn't consider that maybe she just doesn't get to dictate to a grown man with his own family who doesn't want to see her anyway.

Another page from their book, I guess, because this is 100% my MIL's attitude/behavior. Her response to showing up unannounced on our doorstep and finding us not at home was to send H a perplexed text demanding to know WHERE WAS HE?! It struck me then that I don't think she ever thinks of us existing outside of her own wants. The notion that we have fully fleshed out lives that require trips to the grocery store, dental appointments, etc. when she's not looking is not something that occurs to her, even when she's smacked in the face by it. We are supposed to be waiting on standby at all times in case she decides she wants our attention.

And don't even get me started on the idea that if one wants a relationship with someone else, they should -- perhaps -- treat them with kindness? Fairness? Respect? Now there's a silly thought! If MIL's behavior is anything to go by, her belief is that you're allowed to be as judgmental, rude, intrusive, and just plain mean to anyone and everyone, and they should still be falling over themselves to cater to your every whim.

[Rebel13]

Her response to showing up unannounced on our doorstep and finding us not at home was to send H a perplexed text demanding to know WHERE WAS HE?!

Ohmigosh this is simultaneously so outrageously unbelievable and yet so familiar it makes my stomach hurt! How did your husband deal with that, if you don't mind sharing?

[JenniferSmith]

The notion that we have fully fleshed out lives that require trips to the grocery store, dental appointments, etc. when she's not looking is not something that occurs to her, even when she's smacked in the face by it. We are supposed to be waiting on standby at all times in case she decides she wants our attention.

This element you describe, just showing up without any thought of what the other person might be doing, is something I began noticing in my two siblings as we got older (we are now estranged). In the most extreme example, about a month before Thanksgiving, during a phone call with my youngest sibling (who lived 1000 miles away), they mentioned perhaps coming up my way for Thanksgiving. I heard nothing after that and mostly forgot about it.

Fast-forward to 7:30pm the night before Thanksgiving... I get a phone call.... sibling has just arrived and is at the airport in my city, planning to head up to my place.

Luckily for sib, I was going to be home, but this was such an egregious thing to do! I was gob-smacked and just sort of went along with it. But over time, I came to see a pattern of never considering me, and just being absorbed in their own worlds, and how this just felt really crummy. I never felt considered or cared for, just someone to fill the role they wanted or needed at any given time.

In very different ways, both our mother and father were/are highly self-absorbed/selfish people who spent decades making decisions that would benefit themselves over anyone else. So that was the soup my sibs and I were simmered in as we grew up.  I've spent decades trying to rid myself of these terrible habits put into me by my parents (and the generations before them).

[footprint33]

Opting right out of pointless and unwinnable wars is the right thing to do. AND having the mess periodically flung at our doorstep against all my desires is infuriating and brings on another wave of grief.

This is triggering and maddening, Call Me Cordelia, but getting out of town is a great way to self-protect. Good job for you and DH.

footprint