To confront or not...

[Pig wrestler]

Hello everyone,
I think I am way too new to confront my uNPDw, but please tell me your experiences with the confrontation. I am really intrigued to find out everyone's opinion.
Take care.
Pig Wrestler

[MaxedOut]

"Confront"? In my experience, approaching a PD with the notion of confronting them is a pretty sure way to regret an interaction. It's usually very triggering, usually escalates quickly, and doesn't seem to accomplish one's own goals. If they are caught off guard and don't meet fire with much bigger fire, it will usually be simply "justice delayed" as they will reengage better prepared or just split permanently.

Unless the goal is to escalate things for some reason, it's an uneven playing field and I know when I am outmatched. Whether trying to work through conflict, repair a relationship, be heard, separate, or whatever, getting dysregulated doesn't help (regardless of who is dysregulated). It physiologically makes anyone defensive, aggressive, black and white thinking, and unable to process information from the other person.

Losing one's cool and ending up in a conflicting vibe is a bit different; my sTBXw sometimes would understand that (even feel a little vindicated). But if I'd intentionally came to confront as a plan, she'd detect that immediately and consider it a pretty big deal, and not in a good way.

Firmness, on the other hand, can be effective so I guess it depends on what you mean, what the issue is, and what your goals are.

[SonofThunder]

I will somewhat mirror Maxed Out's reply. 

Confrontation is handing your PDw a lure so she can snag you in the lip and real you in.  She will flip the script and will always land on victimhood with you being the perpetrator. (Look up the Karpman Drama Triangle)

You can only control your own actions and reactions. Trying to alter your PDw's actions and reactions by confrontation is a wrong application of the toolbox.  Again, spend some time studying at the toolbox tab, read the books and watch Dr Ramani.  Boundaries, medium-chill/grey rock and NoJADE tool mastery are crucial to work toward.

Also imo never mention the term 'personality disorder' to her as you will never be able to take it back and you will always regret it. Confrontation is what PD's long for! Its perfect food for them and they will feed on 100% of it, as they are very high-radar and skilled at their craft.

SoT

[MaxedOut]

 
And to clarify, when I say "firm" I mean boundaries or decisions we make about ourselves. More specifically in line with no-JADE, and advice in books like Eggshells (delivered with conversational tools like empathy and respect).

[NBRiverGuy]

Hello everyone,
I think I am way too new to confront my uNPDw, but please tell me your experiences with the confrontation. I am really intrigued to find out everyone's opinion.
Take care.
Pig Wrestler

What do you mean by "confront"? Confront her with the idea that she has a personality disorder? That was my first inclination when I came Out of the FOG. I wanted to show her videos and literature with the best of intentions. Like "Hey. Don't you recognize that this is you? Now we can get you the help you need." Everything that I have learned says that is a DISASTEROUS plan and I am glad that I educated myself before I made that mistake. They will not hear it and they will turn it back on you.

[square]

Yeah. If they could take feedback like "I think you have a personality disorder," they wouldn't need it, because they long ago would have taken feedback like "that is really uncalled  for" or "I have a right to make that choice for myself" or "that's really manipulative" or "that really hurts my feelings."

This is a journey you're going to take by yourself. It's worth it, though.

[NBRiverGuy]

Just to add to what Square said about making the journey alone, making your life better is about changing you; not changing the other person. That is a hard lesson that I have been learning in therapy. When I first arrived here, I had hope of saving the marriage because I thought that if I could get her to see that she had an illness, she could work towards getting better. The cold hard fact is that she doesn't really want to get better because she has not acknowledged that she is the problem. She gives lip service sometimes when she senses impending abandonment, but she doesn't really mean it. She'll love bomb after an incident and tell me how wonderful I am and that I am her favorite person and that she knows how lucky she is to have me and that she doesn't deserve me etc. When you hear those things, it's easy to ignore the fact that she never actually showed any remorse or even ownership for her transgressions because deep down she doesn't feel like she did anything wrong. But, because the compliments feel so nice, I accept the love-bombing as an acknowledgement of misbehavior, which it is not. It is a manipulation tactic to keep me from leaving.

[square]

Agreed with NBRG. But to be clear, we all have our own journeys. Some people choose to stay, and learn to implement certain boundaries. This board is agnostic in terms of continuing relatinships, and you will be supported here regardless of whether you feel you want to continue in the marriage, end it, or something in between.

[NBRiverGuy]

Thanks for clarifying Square. Yes. These are my own personal experiences and insights. When I first started posting here, I had every intention of staying married and everyone here was very supportive with their advice. Over the past couple of months, I have decided that I need to end my marriage and everyone here has been very supportive with their advice.

[MaxedOut]

On the positive side, the typical recommendations for improving things for the non when committed to staying... and for when weighing staying or leaving... and for intending to leave have a core that is common.

I noticed that and basically went with "this is the path for taking care of myself, which is necessary for any scenario." I can't control her responses. I can do the work then better assess decisions about the future.

Because there were safety concerns and the possibility of leaving or being left was a possibility I included some other stuff (like an emergency bag, documentation of abuse).

I hoped it wouldn't be needed and that things would get to a better place. But the core learning, practicing, therapy, self-assessment would have been largely identical. Also happily, much of it is also good relationship skills development.

[SonofThunder]

Agreed with NBRG. But to be clear, we all have our own journeys. Some people choose to stay, and learn to implement certain boundaries. This board is agnostic in terms of continuing relatinships, and you will be supported here regardless of whether you feel you want to continue in the marriage, end it, or something in between.

+1

Imo the different trails i've hiked at Out of the FOG are really about me, yet I get to hike with other comrades doing the same thing. It was actually me that needed confronting from myself, using my growing education.  Since this is the Chosen Relationships board, it's fitting for me to realize that a PD chose me because of my caretaking (Fjelstad) traits.

If I had learned and applied to myself what I know now (prior to meeting Mrs SoT) she probably would have moved on from me quickly at the front end of dating, realizing I was not the caretaking type that she needs.  But this skilled caretaker was love-bombed right into chosen position and then sealed the deal with a ring. That was followed by a thick padlock of a child, then a second lock with our second child.  I chose my uPDw, because she fit the pattern of 'normal' I had learned as a child in my home with a caretaker mother and NPD father.

As Square stated, you will be supported here as you learn to change yourself; change your actions and reactions; no matter what forum board(s) you are posting.  The steady changes in yourself will surely be picked up on your PDw's radar very quickly and so your continuing education becomes a challenging and changing obstacle course in a relationship with a PD.

I recommend you just stay focused on changing yourself, while you navigate the ever-changing course ahead. 

SoT

[square]

Adding on to what Maxed Out said, I'm very happy with the work I did on myself, regardless of the outcome of the relationship. It helped me to feel more centered and confident in myself, be a better parent, a better person in other relationships. And it helped me to know I'd done my part, and to know that it wasn't just a 50-50 situation where we were both contributing equally to the dysfunction. I don't believe I ever did contribute to it 50% but my shocked and angry reactions from years ago weren't helping.

Finally, I spent years unsure what I would do, but knowing if I left it would not be for some time. So it helped me to survive that intervening time.

So it all led to clarifying what I wanted and feeling at peace with that.

[escapingman]

I once called my ex wife a psychopath during one of her episodes, this was before I know about PD and that she actually was a (undiagnosed) Psychopath. That did not end well and was thrown in my face several times over the years.

[NBRiverGuy]

She's already picking up on something. I just cannot bring myself to love and adore her. Right now I'm staying. I need skills and quick like.

There is no rush to leave after 15 years of marriage. I have been living with the reality of my wife's PD for about a year and I am still waffling on a daily basis. You don't have to do anything until you are ready to do it. It's not, nor should it be, an easy decision.

[square]

Agreed.

You saying you're just feeling blue, busy, stressed, etc. is fine. You are allowed privacy and can be vague about such things.

She senses your withdrawal.

Look up Medium Chill. That is going to be your best friend right now.

It means you are pleasant and kind and calm but you don't give more than you need to. You don't need to give more information, for starters. But you're not cold. Just easygoing.