Losing Sleep Over Something That Hasn't Happened

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm confused.  According to CBT, etc., mind-reading is not a helpful thinking pattern.  I understand.  My PDex used to attribute all kinds of motives and emotions to me that were totally off base.

Yesterday I said "no," to the uNPD in my life currently in a message in a soft way ("this is fine, but this other doesn't work for me").  We haven't seen each other or spoken since, and I received no response.  In many, many years I can't remember a time when uNPD didn't react in an angry and punishing way to such a thing. no matter how trivial or gently said.

Last night I had trouble sleeping anticipating the response I'll get today.  Snark, anger, pushback, "You don't like that, well let's see how you like THIS" behavior.  It seems so predictable.  And, to be honest, I feel angry about the hundreds of other times this has happened.  I have to be the calm one who doesn't escalate things, and I'm sick of it.

I tried to tell myself last night "You don't know what's going to happen; you don't know you're going to get blowback," but I didn't believe  it and laid awake stewing  Maybe I'm just angry that I'm in a situation where I have to deal with a pwPD at all in order to have contact with my FOC. 

I do believe my reactions to things are my responsibility.   I'm not sure if or how to reframe the situation.  Any suggestions?

[walking on broken glass]

Hi looking2befree,

I can totally relate to this. I habitually make scenarios in my head and then play out my responses to imaginary reactions and statements. It's good to be prepared but there is also the unhealthy, overthinking side of this, which is very unpleasant. Rebel some time ago had suggested this video to me:

https://youtu.be/xHweDBgDsEQ?si=IOJGy5XiSyZ4dJJ5

It teaches you how to change your relationship with anxiety. I haven't tried it yet (I keep intending to and then I forget!) but I found the principle convincing.

Otherwise, would it be possible to block this person for a while to anticipate problems and unblock them later, when the intensity has subsided?

[Rebel13]

Hi Lookin 2 B Free,

This is a big topic -- sleep, worry/anxiety, and how to manage it! There could definitely be multiple things going on here. But one thing I am learning in trauma therapy, is that a lot of reactions to stress start in the body, especially if a person has a history of trauma. Interventions like CBT, DBT, traditional talk therapy, etc., can be really helpful, but sometimes they don't help people with trauma because the reaction is a body-based stress reaction. I can say that's definitely true for myself! I need to calm my nervous system before I can help myself with cognitive-based strategies like positive self-talk, which you valiantly tried, and which I've tried so many times too. And it's so frustrating when it doesn't work and I can't break out of that thought cycle.

I have had periodic difficulties with sleep and intrusive thoughts/ruminating during my life and my therapist has been giving me some helpful strategies lately. There are LOTS of them, but one that I tried a few nights ago, when I was ruminating about a problem at work, was rocking. Even though only babies get rocked in my culture, apparently that kind of movement has a calming effect on the nervous system (which is why we do it for babies). I am super skeptical of all this stuff, but I tried it, and the ruminating stopped, then started again. I went through that cycle a couple times, and sure enough, after a bit I was able to go back to sleep! Kind of a mind-blowing breakthrough for me.

Here are a couple of videos specifically about methods to calm the sympathetic nervous system response, from my favorite therapist on Youtube that walking on broken glass linked to above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkJdKsiCyyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL-AsBnRfd4

I don't know if this will be helpful to you, but I hope you find something that does help you deal with episodes of losing sleep over concerns about relationships.

[walking on broken glass]

That's so interesting Rebel! When I have trouble sleeping, I tend to go on the side, in the foetal position, and move up and down, mostly using my top leg to create this rocking sensation. I am glad to know it's therapist approved!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thanks, WOBG & Rebel!  These are really good videos for anxiety, which I also have, especially when I'm in more demanding social situations.  Great reminders and some new ideas.  I love it.  She covers the birdseye view of it and tons of tools.

I realize what I'm dealing with more now than I used to (and is affecting my sleep) is the anger I feel over having to choose between dealing with uNPD (and therefore not being totally cut off from FOC) or not dealing with uNPD and losing FOC.  I feel I'm at a place in my life where I'm ready to be done with putting up with PD behavior and I have cut that off in all other areas.  But I can't do it here because the cost is too great both to me and to vulnerable people I want to show up for who don't have the means to protect themselves.

So I'm angry at uNPD.  That anger seems to presuppose that uNPD could just snap out of it if they wanted to.  If the person had a traumatic brain injury or inoperable brain tumor it would be frustrating to be around similar bad behavior, but not enraging.  Not that pwPDs don't have any choices about their behavior.  But I don't believe they have a choice about having a PD and having disordered thinking.  So do you think maybe remembering that could be helpful?

[walking on broken glass]

I find hard to deal with this too, Looking2befree. I am afraid I won't be great help there because I am too hurt by the PDs' behaviour to feel sorry for them. Yes, it wasn't their choice to have a PD but it was their choice not to try to manage it and make life easier for both themselves and people around them. I understand though how difficult it is to have to be around a PD person for the sake of not losing contact with other people, and if this thought helps you manage your interactions with them, then use it. Anything to make this easier!

[SonofThunder]

Lookin, I do that all the time.  Additionally I am hard on myself for not being able to control how my brain operates in that way.

I like to watch wild deer and how they act in non-wooded areas of vulnerability.  Many times, a doe will just wander out into the meadow and graze, looking up every so often.  When she hears or see something unordinary, she becomes very alert and then will dart across the meadow and into the relative safety of the woods if alerted enough.  She seems unmoved by creatures that she knows are not a threat to her safety (squirrils, rabbits, small birds, wild turkey, birds of prey), but if a human, dog or coyote makes a sound or becomes visible, she's gone!  Most bucks I see are not as relaxed as a doe.  The bucks hang out near the edge of the woods and then very cautiously come out to graze.  The bucks seem to always dash off before the doe, loudly huffing their warnings to all. 

In more urban settings, the deer are much more relaxed, and it seems to take much greater amounts of unusual and threatening activity to startle.  I relate more to the rural deer, having not been conditioned by plenty of relatively safe people who just want to cohabitate with me in peace, but rather raised-by, married-to, therefore lived-with and habituated-by certain individuals who's motives were to feed on me.  I'm always, like the rural wild deer, on high alert to what may happen and my brain scans the surroundings.  I run scenarios through my mind about expected interactions so I feel mentally prepared for whatever way I may need to dart across the landscape.  It's a mental workout for me and must also be for the wildlife.

When I do ruminate on what-if's, I tell myself I'm just a rural deer on high alert and that my brain's preparation will relax or be confirmed with time. I wish I could change myself, but it seems better to just accept that I will always be that way and try not to beat myself up for the conditions in which I have existed.  Lastly, i'm always a work in progress on self-acceptance, and slowly i'm seeing improvements in that realm by the lowering of my expectations on ever becoming a part of the more relaxed urban wildlife scene.  No, im just a wild rural buck who cautiously stands at the pasture's edge and scans the area. 

I wonder also if the urban deer sleep better than their rural relatives?

Coming alongside you,

SoT

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Ah, yes, SoT. The prey, high alert mindset.  And then preying on ourselves for being that way!  At least the PD predator is not living in my chicken coop 7/24 anymore!  That's a help.

WOBG, I have too much anger to feel sorry for them, which is probably good.  Feeling sorry for someone feeds right into my caretaking tendencies.  That's dangerous for me.

Here's the funny thing!  I've had occasion to be see uNPD more than once since this happened, and none of what I anticipated came to pass.  Turns out the "You don't know what's going to happen, if anything" thinking was totally right.  This time.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Lookin,

CBT in my humble opinion, is of limited use for coping with ongoing stress from PD types.

I think Many therapists jumped on the CBT bandwagon because it can be so easy to tell us to challenge our thoughts. But in reality, stress and PD relationships are about much more than what CBT is for.

In my view it doesn't address the gaslighting and other things a narc will do with us. I think CBT can be helpful if someone has a fear of something like elevators since the elevator isn't out to get you and isn't manipulating anyone. To me, CBT is limited in what it can help with.

I was told to use CBT for my stress (from PD abuse) and realized it wasn't working. Not on its own anyways.

Trees

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thanks, Trees.  I love the honesty we get here!  Rebel mentioned some of this, too.  I don't disagree.

In fact, my trauma T also agrees.  Our sessions are infrequent now, but any therapy I've had in many years has been mostly somatic experiencing with a little EMDR and no CBT. (She doesn't believe CBT is helpful for this stuff)  So in dealing with a trauma response I use SE, occasionally EMDR, along with certain meditation techniques.  That's been really helpful.

But I also want a different story, perspective, to carry through my life.  Not "I'm a victim who's trapped with a PD who has control over my FOC and has decided to devalue me, so I have to be subjected to mean and belittling treatment in order to have contact with my FOC."  That's such a disempowering way to look at things even if it mostly true. 

Also true is:  "Mental illness often tears families completely apart, but I am fortunate I still have contact with my FOC which, while the disorder creates distance and pain, gives me the opportunity to be with them and choose in what way I will engage and how much to step back."

I've had it with the maddening, negative identification as a trapped victim.  I don't like how it makes me feel and it seems inconsistent with my recovery.  This situation has been going on for over 2 years.  I want to hold a perspective that allows for coming to terms with how things are which the trapped victim story doesn't do.  It just keeps me angrily thinking "it shouldn't be this way."  Does this make sense?  Am I missing something?

[walking on broken glass]

I am also interested in the answers.
I have only had Psychoanalytic psychotherapy which has been useful to me in the past but I wonder if it is what I need right now. I don't have frequent sessions, but I contact my therapist to arrange a session when I feel the need. I think I am at a different stage from you though, looking2befree. I think I am only now realizing the full extent of the loss of a 'normal' family relationship and the impact it has had on me. This is perhaps due to recent events combined with the death of my father. I find myself grieving more than being angry, and I find hard to move past the grief. Is anger going to come next?

Sorry, I am not really providing any answers, rather adding to the questions.

[Rebel13]

But I also want a different story, perspective, to carry through my life.  Not "I'm a victim who's trapped with a PD who has control over my FOC and has decided to devalue me, so I have to be subjected to mean and belittling treatment in order to have contact with my FOC."  That's such a disempowering way to look at things even if it mostly true. 

I hear you so much on this! I have chosen the perspective of "I don't suffer fools." I think that works for me because I have been willing to walk away from more relationships than it sounds like you are wanting to. But for me, framing how I relate to people as a choice is quite powerful. It sounds to me like you choose to tolerate certain people and their behavior in order to stay connected to some other people you really care about. That's a totally valid choice in my book. You can always choose something else when things change or you feel differently about the situation. That's not a victim place at all.

[Rebel13]

I think I am only now realizing the full extent of the loss of a 'normal' family relationship and the impact it has had on me. This is perhaps due to recent events combined with the death of my father. I find myself grieving more than being angry, and I find hard to move past the grief. Is anger going to come next?

Hi wobg, it seems like maybe your dad played a really important role in keeping things peaceful in your family and providing a good strong connection for you. So it makes sense that his loss would change the dynamic significantly and you'd have a lot of emotions about that. It kind of seems like the rug has gotten pulled out from under you to some extent -- you thought things were a certain way, and now you find out they're not. It's a shock, on top of the grief.

Yesterday I found out about the podcast "Healing Feeling Sh*t Show" by Rachel Kaplan (she also has a book with a similar title). I attended a webinar by her and then listened to part of the first podcast episode. She has a very unique perspective and and analogy that I find helpful and also hilarious in discussing how to let/get emotions to pass through us when they need to. Highly recommended if you're not put off by salty language and scatalogical metaphors. 

[walking on broken glass]

That's a selling point for me Thanks, Rebel! I will check it out

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Adding to the questions is all to the good, WOBG.  The changes and losses have been recent for you and are still ongoing.  I don't see any reason you should try to push beyond the hurt and sadness. It's an important part of coming Out of the FOG.

Anger is hard to acknowledge for some of us.  That's discussed in Stop Caretaking the BPD/NPD.  I'm one of those.  It's been hard, but a gift, to finally get in touch with anger with the support of my trauma T who encouraged me not to push it away.  Stop Caretaking outlines a path of recovery which includes Kubler Ross' stages of grief including anger.

That said, long ago I had therapists who wondered why I wasn't filled with anger and tried to prod that.  But that didn't do anything.  It didn't surface until much later and in an organic way. 

Thanks for offering a different perspective, Rebel.  That I'm making a choice, which I've always realized, and that isn't being a victim.  Maybe it's okay to really dislike the choices I have.  Or maybe the anger is about the decades I put up with & enabled pwPDs and this situation brings that all back.