Tactics with email

[Helfy]

I was keeping in touch with my siblings and extended family by email 2 or 3 times a year, just a few bland words.
Things have been okay but increasing silence so I was considering dropping it.

Then I realised that all the time I have been doing it, there have been no "email bombs" from them to upset me out of the blue as they fish for drama.  If I stop, the bombs will start up again and that's worse than keeping in touch.

I'm just wndering if anyone else has noticed this. The idea came from Murray Bowen Family Systems Theory but it was intended for connection, not self-defence.  Its just turned out this way.

[bloomie]

Hi, Helfy! Welcome to Out of the FOG. You bring up such an interesting observation. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Whatever way we can find to decrease the drama and email bombs sounds like a wise way to go to me. I have found that benign, very occasional nothing burger kind of contact with certain family members who seem highly activated by complete withdrawal works in my favor.

What I will tell you that I have found to be true is every contact, no matter how infrequent and shallow, does bring some emotional work for me to do leading up to it and afterwards.

[Helfy]

Thank you Bloomie.  It sounds like you are the right person to talk to about this, and it is indeed the work before and after that concerns me.  Am I right in guessing that you are not finding it easier as time goes by?  I worry a bit about how this is affecting my other relationships and whether that is "my fault" for not processing it properly or "my fault" for contacting them at all.

Today I was thinking "I can't imagine my Higher Power moving me to contact a list".  Maybe I should contact each person as I feel moved to, and that may not happen for many of them.

The other thing that occurs to me is that I have a lot of relatives who will definitely not bother me if I stop emailing them, and who are distant enough that its not actually socially unacceptable to leave them alone.  Whereas my siblings and their families I do perceive some kind of social injuction.

I say that because I hear younger people say "find your tribe and forget your family" and I used to think this too but 1. you don't get another family and lose friends continually as you age, and it gets harder and harder to make new ones as decent older people are very careful who they mix with and 2. explaining that I am no contact with my family makes it almost impossible to socialise thereafter due to the red flags it raises, whereas atm I can honestly say I email my family regularly.  I don't need to reveal that I seldom respond to their replies.

Does this match your experience, or anyone else who is reading?

[walking on broken glass]

I say that because I hear younger people say "find your tribe and forget your family"

I am not sure if I can be considered young (I am 40 years old) but I am a fervent supporter of that. Friends have been there for me in so many ways, whereas my family has only created trauma and stress for me. In my experience, good friends and people who have the potential to become good friends do not think being no contact or very low contact with your family is weird. They are people who have thought deeply about relationships and seek authentic connections, people who have empathy and understanding. And these are the people you want around you.

At any rate, when you first get to know people, you don't have to give details about the level of contact you have with your family. Why would someone be interested in that? You can mention them in very vague terms and say we are not touch very regularly or something similar. If people insist on prying, then these are probably people you don't want around you anyway. You can share more if and when you feel comfortable doing that.

All I am saying is if keeping in touch with your family is a cause of stress for you and bad for your mental health, you should not dismiss that feeling lightly. And you should definitely not keep in touch with family just out of fear that you might lose potential friends over this. It should come from a place of positivity, i.e. there are pleasant aspects and things to be gained from the contact, as well as things you would miss if you were not in touch.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yeah, that is interesting that you can "check the box" in a meaningless way and thereby protect yourself from the consequences of dropping contact all together. To be honest, I did do exactly that with a number of relatives, including my siblings, before finally ending up NC, but I never thought about it in quite those terms before. The people with whom this works are clearly not seeking connection, but keeping up appearances. I would do things like call my grandmother so I could say to my father that I had called. Is that the sort of thing you mean when you worry about dropping contact affecting your other relationships?

I've since learned that my relationships are not the business of any other third party. Be that a friend questioning my NC status, or my father guilting me about calling his parents, or somebody wanting to know who all I invite to a party. Boundaries. MYOB. You (person I imagine might judge me) don't have the full story and even if you did it's not your decision or your opinion that matter here.

This is not matter for small talk with new friends, in any case. I've been NC with my entire FOO and ILs for about seven years. In my experience, people get to know me and form their impression of me independently of any of that backstory, and if and when it ever does come up, I'm not giving all the gory details and asking for anyone's approval. It's just a fact of my life, and not the most important thing about me by any means. Basically, it really hasn't been an issue.

"Find your tribe and forget your family?" Eh, I think that's an individual decision. I don't think it should be held up as some kind of ideal. Ideally, family and "tribe" have significant overlap. If you can't have that, I guess you'll find it painfully obvious at some point. I found my tribe I would say but I haven't forgotten my family. It's one reason I'm still here on Out of the FOG.

[Helfy]

I hear you brokenglass and in my 40s I would have written something close to this.  Now I am older and the people who are willing to socialise with me are different.  No males, no younger females, and women of this age are only interested in talking about (their own) families.  If you don't have one it gets weird quite early.  The men aren't like that, just the women.

At one time I would have said they were "boring" but it's not that.  Tiredness and anxiety are a factor I am sure.

I say that because I hear younger people say "find your tribe and forget your family"

I am not sure if I can be considered young (I am 40 years old) but I am a fervent supporter of that. Friends have been there for me in so many ways, whereas my family has only created trauma and stress for me. In my experience, good friends and people who have the potential to become good friends do not think being no contact or very low contact with your family is weird. They are people who have thought deeply about relationships and seek authentic connections, people who have empathy and understanding. And these are the people you want around you.

At any rate, when you first get to know people, you don't have to give details about the level of contact you have with your family. Why would someone be interested in that? You can mention them in very vague terms and say we are not touch very regularly or something similar. If people insist on prying, then these are probably people you don't want around you anyway. You can share more if and when you feel comfortable doing that.

All I am saying is if keeping in touch with your family is a cause of stress for you and bad for your mental health, you should not dismiss that feeling lightly. And you should definitely not keep in touch with family just out of fear that you might lose potential friends over this. It should come from a place of positivity, i.e. there are pleasant aspects and things to be gained from the contact, as well as things you would miss if you were not in touch.

[Helfy]

Thanks Cordelia.  It took me a long time to work out that I wasn't hurting anyone's feelings, but I was damaging their reputation by not being in contact with them and that made them very upset.  I am very happy to hear you say that.  It's confusing if you think it is about closeness when it isn't, they just want to be able to say they heard from you as "social proof".  And to be fair I am ashamed to admit this is part of my pain too.  I don't like anyone in my extended family but I do feel ashamed of not having any relationships.

I've tried it both ways, NC for many years and now low contact, and sometimes I think I was healthier with the NC.
Maybe the problem is, the people around me IRL aren't very healthy and I have been trying to please them.

I do get the impression that those people who do reply to my emails are using their contact with me as a form of social proof rather than a source of connection and it doesn't seem possible to switch tracks.  I thought that using a list would protect me from the negative feelings of being dismissed or used, because it was impersonal, but it seems it has not.

You seem more at peace with your setup somehow.

Yeah, that is interesting that you can "check the box" in a meaningless way and thereby protect yourself from the consequences of dropping contact all together. To be honest, I did do exactly that with a number of relatives, including my siblings, before finally ending up NC, but I never thought about it in quite those terms before. The people with whom this works are clearly not seeking connection, but keeping up appearances. I would do things like call my grandmother so I could say to my father that I had called. Is that the sort of thing you mean when you worry about dropping contact affecting your other relationships?

I've since learned that my relationships are not the business of any other third party. Be that a friend questioning my NC status, or my father guilting me about calling his parents, or somebody wanting to know who all I invite to a party. Boundaries. MYOB. You (person I imagine might judge me) don't have the full story and even if you did it's not your decision or your opinion that matter here.

This is not matter for small talk with new friends, in any case. I've been NC with my entire FOO and ILs for about seven years. In my experience, people get to know me and form their impression of me independently of any of that backstory, and if and when it ever does come up, I'm not giving all the gory details and asking for anyone's approval. It's just a fact of my life, and not the most important thing about me by any means. Basically, it really hasn't been an issue.

"Find your tribe and forget your family?" Eh, I think that's an individual decision. I don't think it should be held up as some kind of ideal. Ideally, family and "tribe" have significant overlap. If you can't have that, I guess you'll find it painfully obvious at some point. I found my tribe I would say but I haven't forgotten my family. It's one reason I'm still here on Out of the FOG.

[Call Me Cordelia]

It's confusing if you think it is about closeness when it isn't, they just want to be able to say they heard from you as "social proof".  And to be fair I am ashamed to admit this is part of my pain too.  I don't like anyone in my extended family but I do feel ashamed of not having any relationships.

Oh, that's definitely something to grieve. And yes, I have felt ashamed of my NC status many many times, especially considering that I'm NC with my FOO and IL's both. It feels like the common denominator in my failed relationships is going to appear to be me and oh my I feared the judgment. It took a number of experiences of facing "outing" myself and it turning out just fine to (mostly) get past that. A surprising number of people in this world are nothing like our families. They have empathy, they take into account their own experiences of us more than any gossip or stigma around our family situation. Some people have not taken it well, but on observation that says more about them than about me.

[Helfy]

It sounds like you are doing well all things considered Cordelia.  No-one took my NC well here, they all seem to feel I am talking about their own FOO, and perhaps that's because they are too similar.  Everyone I meet here seems very messed-up.

My significant other said it was like lying to give the impression that I have a decent relationship with my family, but I said "new people just want to check that box off, they don't want to know the content of every email, just that they didn't knowingly get themselves involved with a troublemaker"

Plus of course, the level of sharing I experience with my FOO, although very low, could be a match for many families who just aren't aware.

Sharing on this has done a lot for my day, thanks

It's confusing if you think it is about closeness when it isn't, they just want to be able to say they heard from you as "social proof".  And to be fair I am ashamed to admit this is part of my pain too.  I don't like anyone in my extended family but I do feel ashamed of not having any relationships.

Oh, that's definitely something to grieve. And yes, I have felt ashamed of my NC status many many times, especially considering that I'm NC with my FOO and IL's both. It feels like the common denominator in my failed relationships is going to appear to be me and oh my I feared the judgment. It took a number of experiences of facing "outing" myself and it turning out just fine to (mostly) get past that. A surprising number of people in this world are nothing like our families. They have empathy, they take into account their own experiences of us more than any gossip or stigma around our family situation. Some people have not taken it well, but on observation that says more about them than about me.

[Rebel13]

I hear you brokenglass and in my 40s I would have written something close to this.  Now I am older and the people who are willing to socialise with me are different.  No males, no younger females, and women of this age are only interested in talking about (their own) families.  If you don't have one it gets weird quite early.  The men aren't like that, just the women.

I hear you on this Helfy! It seems like more and more people are feeling isolated these days, and the older people get -- and the more we differ from the norm in life choices -- the harder it seems to make friends. Right now I am still working, so I get a lot of socialization needs met through chitchat at work. And I have a handful of friends who are real, and who can handle me being real.

Thinking about the future, when I might stop working, and reflecting on what has worked for me in the past, I'm planning on trying different activities to fill social needs, even if they don't result in intimate friendships. I'm thinking book club, volunteering for animal charities, and maybe political organizing groups. In my experience those kinds of activities tend to attract women who aren't focused on being part of a traditional family. Do you have any thoughts or experience in that regard?

[Helfy]

Thanks Rebel those are good observations and in fact the two women I actually like emailing are married-retired-childless and married-not-working-one-child-who-just-left-home.  Those are hard to find, maybe 2% of all the people I keep in touch with and of course there is no guarantee they will want to be friends.

I get some socialising of a sort from online sales/regular customers but in the last 6 months I haven't been able to do that and I have missed it, just trying to get back into it slowly now.

I like your ideas and I worry a little about my partner who is not anticipating loneliness when he stops work, is it going to threaten our relationship.

I guess what I am saying is, yes, unusual life circumstances that don't currently feel like choices, compounded by a shrinking pool of possible friends, for example no males or young people and no-one who lives too far away.  So if 2% of people might click with you, it's always getting harder to meet 100 people and find those two.

I was once sternly told "if you are both human beings you have plenty in common" but the other person has to recieve that message too, or you have to win them over to it.

I have my eye on a 12 step group and a particular volunteer position but its uphill due to home stuff and health. Getting closer I hope.

I loved your expression "women who aren't focused on being part of a traditional family". 

I hear you brokenglass and in my 40s I would have written something close to this.  Now I am older and the people who are willing to socialise with me are different.  No males, no younger females, and women of this age are only interested in talking about (their own) families.  If you don't have one it gets weird quite early.  The men aren't like that, just the women.

I hear you on this Helfy! It seems like more and more people are feeling isolated these days, and the older people get -- and the more we differ from the norm in life choices -- the harder it seems to make friends. Right now I am still working, so I get a lot of socialization needs met through chitchat at work. And I have a handful of friends who are real, and who can handle me being real.

Thinking about the future, when I might stop working, and reflecting on what has worked for me in the past, I'm planning on trying different activities to fill social needs, even if they don't result in intimate friendships. I'm thinking book club, volunteering for animal charities, and maybe political organizing groups. In my experience those kinds of activities tend to attract women who aren't focused on being part of a traditional family. Do you have any thoughts or experience in that regard?

[OverHere]

One of my relatives responded to my email with a double-bind so I have quietly taken them off my list and it will take them a long time to be sure I am not emailing them anymore.  I am rattled by it but this time I know what to do - be silent - and it has confirmed my memories and unease concerning that person.  Thanks for reading.