Spouse with avoidant pd and narcissistic tendencies

[Sidney37]

I've been here for years gaining the courage to gray rock and go NC with a PDm and enD.  Now I'm here having just had my spouse officially diagnosed with avoidant personality disorder with narcissistic personality traits.  I'm devastated.  I've been crying alone for 2 days.  My therapist is out having surgery and I'm feeling very overwhelmed.

My experience has taught me that gray rock is my first step to dealing with a PD but with avoidant any sense that I am rejecting or pulling away feeds into the root of the PD.  Has anyone had any guidance or luck as to how to deal with an avoidant PD spouse?

 I've spent years thinking I was too needy and didn't deserve attention.  Now I have gone NC with my parents.  Their smear campaign left me with no relative speaking to me and now my only other person is diagnosed, too.  Due to his avoidance and narcissistic tendencies we have few friends.  How do I cope?

[bloomie]

Sidney37 - my heart goes out to you as you process this new information and the insights you have been given regarding your H. This is a lot to hold up under, especially given the lack of healthy family members to support you. I am really sorry you are hurting and feeling isolated.

Has anyone had any guidance or luck as to how to deal with an avoidant PD spouse?

I can only share what I have learned with a similar sounding H. I cannot accommodate his root issues by continuing to go toward someone who has not been willing to do the work he needs to do to find a reasonable way through his stuff and participate in our life to a reasonable extent.

Given my own complex trauma history, trying to mitigate and navigate his stuff on my own has been extremely damaging. Though done in sincerity, it only exacerbated my own struggles. That along with all of the extended family disordered stuff! UGH!!

One thing I have learned, that has been helpful to me and my own H, is that when the discomfort of distance is created in a relationship (out of necessity or for various reasons) there is often a feeling of shame that arises and in that space, with some less healthy people, blame takes shape. I have found that some family systems respond as you describe your own doing during that time, and it is devastating to us.

In some, like myself and maybe you (?) we blame ourselves and try harder. Only to face disappointment, which, for me, has been a breeding ground to begin to believe lies about myself that have taken a long time to cut off.

I know this may sound like it is coming from left field and may not be of value to you... but, I had to start with my identity, not someone else's issues or diagnosis.

I have had to get curious about what my identity is rooted in? How do the things I tell myself and believe about myself, the things that have been said to me or over me by others (verbally and nonverbally) people that I have looked to to see value and worth in me, saying? And how does that inform my actions and choices?

Beginning that work did not mean that I disregarded the very real struggles and issues of my H's, but it did help me to get comfortable with enjoying my own company and to slowly build connections with others for me.

I can see, with compassion, why and how my own H has developed the way he did to cope with his own experiences, and I can more clearly see where I can kindly detach. Which for me, is essential for both of us. Without some room created, I am not sure either of us would be working on our stuff as we are.

I believe this work you are already doing, and all you are grappling with, is a slow process in many ways. At least it has been for me. Stay steady and begin to build into your own identity. Stay with yourself when it gets hard and be gentle with yourself in this process.

And, keep coming back and sharing. You are not alone!

[notrightinthehead]

That's a tough situation you find yourself in Sidney, and I am sorry you have to face it alone. Sounds like you have come to a point where you need to look at yourself and your own behaviour, and allow your significant other space to do the same. You have carried the emotional work for both of you. Now you realize that you no longer can do that and it has never been your job to do his work anyway!

You need support from others in similar situations. Your therapist is one person, this forum is a place but you need more - something in real life. Can you find a self help group in your area? CoDA, Alanon, would be groups where you would find understanding and support. All you need to bring is the willingness to work on yourself and your problems.

I also have found that doing a hobby, hiking in my case, has allowed me easy, casual contact with healthy people, that has allowed me to feel healthy and normal too. Physical exercise is good for my emotional well being too. Do you have any interests that you have neglected? Can you take them up again? Think of yourself as someone role modelling healthy behaviour. For yourself and others. Then go and do it.

When you feel overwhelmed with guilt and shame - find the meditations of Kristen Neff - Self compassion, and do them. Listen to your self talk and begin to talk kindly and lovingly with yourself.

This is your first step to pull yourself out of this rut! I am cheering you on!

[Adria]

Wow Sidney,

I'm right here with ya sister! Along with Bloomie and Notrightinthehead. Very, very difficult to deal with. And even more difficult to deal with when we're it, with no family support.

I agree with what Bloomie and Notrightinthehead have said wholeheartedly.  I don't have much to add other than I feel your pain.

Lately, I have been stepping back and learning to let dh be who he is. It is a harsh reality, but like all of us here, I've tried to fix, bend and carry his load, as well as mine for thirty plus years. I'm getting to old and tired to do it anymore. And to some degree, that is a gift.  I'm focusing more on myself, and if he is being a disconnected jerk, then I am practicing hard not to let him get under my skin, and let him be on his merry little way. 

I'm almost getting to a point where he's worn me out too much to care, and that is a good place to be.  I think he is figuring it out that he can't get the same reactions out of me anymore, and he's actually been quite a bit more pleasant. 

It's still hard on me because I am an emotional person who likes to be connected, but I'm finding if I can somehow emotionally try to disconnect myself, (even if I have to fake it 'til I make it) he seems to come around a little quicker.

Maybe the reason it's so hard on us is because our families did not want to connect with us, quite the opposite, so we were sure that we would find that deep connection with our spouses.

What happened to the white picket fence we were all looking forward to?  Seems like what we dream of and what we get are two different things.

I don't know if our dhs will ever change, but it is always beneficial to work on ourselves and how we react.  If I can make it through this hurdle, I'll feel like I really accomplished something, and I plan on it. Sigma females are not born, they are a result of being overly processed.     

[Sidney37]

Thank you all.  I was so devastated over this diagnosis that I couldn't even bring myself to log in to see the responses and for that I am sorry. I just couldn't accept it or what people might say about it.  I've now accepted it.  I've always appreciated the help here and for some reason I just couldn't accept his diagnosis or the responses from others.  Finally today my therapist (who recovered quickly from her surgery and I've been seeing in these months since) said to me directly that he has a personality disorder.  It was diagnosed by another psychologist and my therapist and I have reviewed the report.  But this is the first time she looked at me and said that she is certain (she has seen us both some as well) that he has a personality disorder and I have to accept that unless he takes therapy very seriously and gets the right therapy that this marriage is not sustainable.  After being estranged from a mother who is undiagnosed but certainly PD and a father who is either an enabler or a PD but certainly emotionally very immature, having this diagnosis is so isolating.  I directly asked yet another therapist (my current one) if she thinks I'm PD as well and she like others in the various cities where I have lived is confident that I am not.  I just have a lot of trauma from my family, previous relationships and this relationship. I guess that's reassuring that I don't have a PD, too, but it's isolating that yet another relationship is causing trauma.

Bloomie - after all of these years here, I missed that your husband had similar issues.  Maybe you haven't talked as much about it or maybe I missed some of those posts or maybe I've just forgotten over my many years here.  I'm sorry you, too, are going through this.  I've heard that those of us with complex PTSD and trauma from our own families often marry PDs as well.  Yes, I agree that we do try harder. I try harder.  There is an instagram page by a therapist who talks about overcompensation - wives that over compensate for their under functioning spouses who are neurodivergent or PD or both.  That is me.  Working too hard, jumping through too many hoops to please others (kids and spouse), to attempt to calm my own nervous system.  Your comments do not sound like they are out of left field.  They are so spot on.  I am trying to detach some at home.  Not manage his "stuff" whether it be reminder about things he neglects or his own emotional "stuff".  It's his and I'm learning at therapy not to take responsibility for it.  It's hard but necessary work and he doesn't like me detaching because it's at the root of his attachment issues and his avoidant personality disorder.  If I stop it seems like I am abandoning him and he gets more avoidant.  It's complicated.  I do need to find my own identity, my own friends and my own life and if that life in the long run includes him (with his own therapy) or doesn't is yet to be seen. As always, Bloomie, thank you!

Notintherighthead.  Thank you.  I do need a group.  I haven't looked or found one yet, but I need to do that.  Alanon is for people with alcohol issues in the family?  He doesn't have that going on.  There must be a support group for wives with PD husbands.  I'll ask my therapist if she knows of one.  I've given up so many hobbies over the years.  I'm in a location that it's harder to do the ones I have neglected, but I need to make them or new ones a priority.  I needed that reminder.  I hadn't heard of Kristen Neff, but I'm going to look her up today.  Thank you for all of the suggestions and support. 

Adria. Thank you.  I totally see after these few short months since the diagnosis that not carrying his load can be a gift.  I'm in constant fight or flight trying to carry the load that he neglects whether it be home, kids, family, extended family, his own personal stuff.  I'm not his calendar, his notification system, his personal assistant or his personal Siri/Google.   I've been all of that and more for 25+ years.  I, too, feel too worn out to care and I wonder if it's a sign of the relationship being over.  In some ways it feels like it.  My kids will all be out of the house in a few short years and I have a feeling that might be the end.  I am a person who likes to be emotionally connected and not only have I not gotten that in my marriage, my marriage and my kid's "stuff" (neurodivergent and possibly PD for one).  It definitely seems like what we hoped for and what we got are two different things.  I also think that due to my relationship with my PD parents I find people who have PDs.  I know a boyfriend from my teenage years was diagnosed.  His mom told me many years later when she wanted to know and understand his early dating relationship to try to understand his diagnosis.  She thought I might have some insight.  Another boyfriend was never diagnosed, but it's pretty clear that he should have been as well.  I'm now working on myself and accepting that even in my 50s this marriage might not be forever.  I might never get the white picket fence or the dream of what marriage could be like.  But that's ok.  I need to find happiness with myself.