The worst gaslight yet

[Happypants]

This happened roughly nine months ago but it has become a gaslighting experience that I can't stop going back over in my head.

For info: I'm lowish contact with my parents and talk roughly every 10 days, the odd WhatsApp as a family group, and lately face to face contact has been to do with hospital visits (as a visitor and during an emergency), aside from mothers/fathers day and a couple of family birthdays. They do visit every now and then (which always makes me feel bad), but I don't tend to visit them unless they need help with something.  Until a couple of years ago, I would have everyone over for dinner once every 4 months or so - not so much since.  I've cut down gradually and they've definitely noticed but don't overtly say anything.  For clarity, I do want to stay in contact with them and support them, as well as keeping on good terms with my brother and his family.

Nine months ago I receive a phone call from my mother out of the blue without my father present.  They usually call together, but she said he was out - alarm bells went off because she tends to be different ie more prone to manipulation, being pushy or hoovering when it's just her and I.  She asks me if I remember a time over the past couple of years when she and I had been out doing something together (haven't been out with her for around 8-10 years, my one boundary I've stuck by is not having days out with her).  We came back to their house, apparently I was really upset on returning from this (imaginary) outing and my father had asked what had happened and I apparently said along the lines of "I don't want to get into it".  This is all completely made up, and I can assure you she is not suffering from dementia - her cognition is probably better than mine! 

She said that my father had said (on the morning she called to ask me about this) that me seeing them less was (him saying to her) "you upsetting her. You know what you're like". She then said on the call "I don't remember it but your dad said I'd upset you and that's why we don't see you as much.  Did I upset you?" Uh oh    I said "no, I don't remember us having a day out over the past few years."  She said "so, I didn't upset you?".  I said "no, I don't remember anything about us going out or that happening".  She then said "so, I've NEVER upset you?"  Does anyone else think she was fishing for a quote in order to remove any blame from herself for everything she's done over the years?  Did she think I wouldn't notice the switch to "NEVER" in place of asking about that one imaginary incident? In the usual fashion, this conversation was repeated several times - what my father said had happened; the whole dreamt-up scenario; "did I upset you?" - with me continuously repeating that "I don't remember that day".  And when she repeatedly asked "so, I've NEVER upset you?", I just kept repeating that I didn't remember that day and refused to answer the actual question.  The call eventually ended and she still didn't get the answer (or quote) that she was looking for.  I've mulled over it so many times and I don't believe she genuinely wants to know if she's ever upset me, otherwise the whole made-up scenario wouldn't have been necessary.  As the months pass and I revisit it, I get angrier and angrier that she 1) thinks I'm that flaming stupid that I'll believe a made-up incident, 2) that she's happy to overtly try to make me question my reality, 3) that she really does know what she's done over the years but wants to be let off the hook (with me, maybe with my father) rather than broach the topic like an adult with a view to actually improving the situation.

This has worsened my perception of her to say the least.  This is the first time that I genuinely can't get over what she did and what lengths she'll go to.  Has anyone had something similar ie them trying to put words in your mouth and question your reality in such a hugely gaslighty way?

[Liketheducks]

If it was my mom, I'm sure it would be a situation where she just wants to be let off the hook....for anything and everything.    It sounds like something my mother would do.   I'm sorry.   

[TimetoHeal]

The title of your post, The Worst Gaslight Yet, is very appropriate!  Or a rougher way of saying it would be "complete mindf*k"!  Oh, my goodness, I'm sure you hung up feeling like 

I agree it sounds like your mother was fishing for "absolution", and to be able to say she is not the reason for you pulling away.  I can see why you have instituted the boundaries of not being alone with her.  You are very wise. 

[Rebel13]

This is terrible, HappyPants, no wonder you are angry. I'm angry FOR you!

It does remind me of this thread, where Dinah-sore talked about similar dynamics with her mother, also repeatedly trying to be let off the hook or receive absolution. They all have their individual quirks, but at the same time the tactics can be so similar. I don't know if that helps or if it's even more enraging,  but I definitely don't blame you for being upset about this. It's crazymaking.

[walking on broken glass]

Oh my goodness, the persistence! She just would not let it go until you agreed with her - so typical.

You reminded me of something re. my own family. I had kept low contact with my parents (my dad died a year ago) and I would call them every ten days or so. My dad would always complain that I don't call more often and he was the more vocal of the two: he would say whatever was in his mind, while my mum would suppress and let it fester. My dad would tease me sometimes or say things about politics that he knew I would disagree with, because he enjoyed goading me. Many times it was childish and annoying, but sometimes it was just affectionate teasing that I didn't mind. Every time he would tease me or there would be even a minor disagreement, my mum would intervene and would say to my dad to stop it and 'this is why she doesn't want to talk to us'. It made me think how little awareness she had of their behaviour and how she had no idea where the actual problems lay. She made it sound as if I were unreasonable or irritable and they shouldn't provoke me, whereas in reality I had put up with so much bad behaviour, and lack of support and understanding over the years. But sure, she attributed my lack of contact to small instances of conflict; just like she told me a few months ago that I stopped talking to my sister 'over a misunderstanding'. This is how she glossed over the years of my sister's abuse.

So yes, I fully understand how awful this gaslighting is and I am sorry you are experiencing it with your mum. You are doing the right thing by keeping some distance.

[Call Me Cordelia]

It sounds like you handled that exceptionally! Well done keeping cool. Amazing and inspiring.

It is astonishing the lengths to which some people will go to rewrite history. My mother was also one who would make up incidents whole cloth if it suited her purpose, but more often it was, "That never happened." I would be accused of holding a grudge, but it didn't matter anyway, but I was remembering it wrong. When that didn't get the desired result, then it didn't happen at all! Once I asked if it didn't happen at all, how do you know I'm holding a grudge over it? Because *I* bring it up constantly, of course!!!  If it did happen, I should forget about it.     

[Happypants]

Thanks for the replies, you've all been really helpful.  I'm really struggling at the moment with a lot of stuff - it hasn't been a great year so far on so many counts (pity party  ).  I'm beginning to wonder if I was better of when I was completely in the FOG as when I look back I don't feel like life was as exhausting as it is now, or certainly not in the same way.  The constant self-questioning, trying to maintain internal and external boundaries, trying to workout when I'm right to advocate for myself and when I'm being bullish, etc, it's all too much.  But I keep coming back to this realisation that when I'm doing well (when I can remember that far back), when I'm differentiating, putting boundaries in place, when I'm displaying autonomy or showing signs of digging myself out, the entire atmosphere of my life seems to change and feels very uncomfortable, and it's not all internal.  I actually feel like I'm on a "shoogly peg" with everyone, even people who aren't involved with all of this.  When I'm doing what everyone wants/needs, I'm uncomfortable with that as I'm betraying myself and halting any progress, but the world just feels calmer, even if I'm frustrated at not sticking up for myself or truly living.  I don't know if any of this makes sense 

Liketheducks - I've re-read my post so many times, and every now and then I wonder if it was her ridiculous way of opening up the channels of communication.  Then I read it again and realise there was plenty of opportunity for that, plus I know how she would react if I told her my side.  Frustratingly, I can see my part in everything, but I don't think there's any way she would be willing to acknowledge hers.  I'm sorry your mother seems to be cut from the same cloth.

Timetoheal - Yes, it was one of those moments where I really began to question myself.  It reinforced why I spend as little time alone with her as possible as historically there has always been remarks afterwards from someone else in the family about something I've said while alone with her taken completely out of context.  Self-editing doesn't work, she still manages to get something to work with.  She may have changed, so I could be wrong but I don't have the resilience to put myself in that position any more.

Rebel13 - thanks for the empathy - if I'm being honest, I'm cycling between anger and panic because it's opened up a whole new side to what she may (or may not) be capable of when I'm not around.

Walkingonbrokenglass - thank you.  I've had quite a lot of practice and repeating back to her as she can be very pushy.  I can fully empathise with your experience.  My mother will often bring up topics that she knows my father and I disagree on (even when he doesn't say anything), and will push me on it.  I've gotten a lot better at not reacting but it's very wearing.  Then they wonder why I don't visit.

Call me Cordelia - I'm sorry, the whole "that never happened" scenario must be so frustrating.  I suspect my mother would be the same and it would end up becoming family knowledge further reinforcing my role as villain, especially now that she's older.  I'd like to clear the air but me bringing up anything from the past would be seen as an accusation regardless of my acknowledging my part in it.   

Thanks again.  Despite years of digging my heels in and trying to push back against the false narrative, I'll no doubt spend the next week or so feeling guilty (and wiped-out) having putting all this down in black and white, like I'm some sort of traitor