Communication after court orders end

[Associate of Daniel]

My beautiful ds is about to turn 18! Therefore our court orders will no longer be applicable.  He and I are floundering a little as a result, despite the relief that we have finally reached this point.

The plan so far is that he will continue to live with his uNPD father and uNPD smother next year, as he still has a year of school to go.

He asked me the other day if I'd consider using WhatsApp for communications between them, him and me regarding his movements.  I immediately felt almost sick to the stomach. I find WhatsApp enormously stressful, but it's more than that.

I don't want to be in a group chat with my uNPD exH and his uNPD wife.  I don't want them seeing my communications with ds and I don't want to see theirs with him or receive any from them.

However, I also no longer wish to have to communicate with them regarding arrangements for ds at all.  In recent months we've almost stopped doing it anyway, as ds seems to be making the arrangements himself and doing the communicating for us.

I feel bad refusing to use WhatsApp and I don't want to put him in the middle, although he seems to have been doing it for a while anyway.

I don't think I'm making much sense.

Anyway  does anyone have any suggestions? What's worked for you?

I can't help thinking we could just leave things as they are. And I also wonder if it's them who have presented the idea to him as an effort to have continued contact and "control" over me.  They are probably struggling with the realisation that their time with me as supply is pretty much at an end. (At least I hope it is!)

AOD

[escapingman]

AoD, if you ds is 18 why is a group chat needed? I am not saying it is the right way, but I am arranging things directly with DD2 who lives with uNPDxw and that works fine. DD who lives with me does the same with uNPD. Those times anything has to be agreed or arranged more formally we have used emails which is the only route of communication I haven't blocked her. My daughters are a little younger than your son and in the mid teens.

Good luck!

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, escaping man.

I'm inclined to agree.  I can't really think of a scenario where there would be a need for the adults to communicate with each other about Ds's movements.  If anyone can think of one, please let me know.

I've just had an unexpected visit from his uNPD smother (see my most recent post), in which she brought up the communication thing.  I basically told her I didn't agree.  She wasn't happy.

All of our communications are through email as well. They are addressed to and from my uNPD exH but I'm 99.99999% sure that she writes and reads most of them on his behalf.

I have her blocked for texts and phone calls.  I haven't blocked uNPD exH as he is not brave enough to attack me in person.

Does anyone else have a different way of organising/communicating their 18 year old's movements?  I'd like to have a few scenarios to which to refer when talking about it with ds.

AOD

[square]

I don't have experience with difficult coparenting, but I do have a 19 year old.

Your son now will decide on his movements and do all his communication himself. Including deciding where to spend holidays and other previously negotiated items.

The only reason ex or smother would have to contact you is if your son cannot - namely a medical emergency or other emergency. Or if his phone dies while he is out with them and needs to communicate urgently (like he will be late to see you for an arranged visit).

That's it.

I know your nerves are jangling but she can go jump off a cliff.

[Rose1]

I tend to agree. Medical emergencies only as Square said. IMO it's an attempt to keep you chained to the control they have exerted over you and it's GONE. You're also so used to jumping to their tune because of the consequences which no longer exist. DS will soon be mobile if he isn't already and certainly free to come to your place as he wishes. You've been waiting for this for years and it's finally here. Congrats on achieving this milestone with your sanity intact. It's time to smile sweetly and ignore.
When my kids were over 18 and even before I saw no good reason to communicate directly with exbpdh or his new wife. No good ever came from it.

If I recall DD was contemplating an overseas trip  with ex and he wasn't going to get travel insurance. I put my foot down on that one and contacted him to say no insurance, no passport will be purchased and that she was to hold her own documents in case of an issue.

I had arranged with DD an emergency plan that required her to have her own documents and ticket which we kept to ourselves. She wasn't completely comfortable about travelling with him and plan b was a good backstop.

Got the usual pushback and that was the last time I ever spoke to him.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks everyone.

I've now spoken to several people about the communication thing, including seeing a counsellor today about it.  So far no one can see a reason for the adults to be involved.  So I guess I'm on the right track.  I just need to find a way of convincing Ds of the non necessity of it.

We'll see how it all pans out.

AOD

[square]

What does DS want to do, how is he envisioning things?

Also, I've found that sometimes shrugging things off can be more effective than addressing them. E.g. "eh, we'll see how it goes" or "seems fine as it is now" or "I don't this has to be a big deal" in a pleasant and reassuring but somewhat dismissive tone. But that may not work in your situation, idk.

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm not sure if ds is agreeing with the uNPD smother by conviction, or agreeing with her to keep the peace.

I'm fairly sure though that he is, like all of us, uncertain of how to proceed into a life of no court orders.

I think he wants the freedom (that he now has) to organise his own life without his parents communicating with each other but is uncertain of any obligations that go along with that freedom.

I've found the shrugging off thing has worked for other things, and I essentially agree with you regarding doing it for this scenario.  I think I'm just being more cautions because we're all entering a new phase and we're not sure of the dos and don'ts.

I think I'll do a combination of shrugging it off and telling him that I can't see a reason for his uNPD dad, uNPD smother and I to be communicating with each other.  Also that it seems a bit funny for the mummy and daddy of an adult to be organising his life for him, or giving him permission to do what he has authority to do anyway.  Something along those lines.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

Thinking further still, and especially in light of this last weekend.  Ds was in a far more relaxed state - back to his usual beautiful self.  He didn't mention the communication thing or WhatsApp, and I didn't want to bring it up as we only had a very short time together this time.

So that's now made me think that I might not follow it up with him at all, unless he mentions it again.  Then I would tell him what I've said in my previous post.

Even this weekend there was a change to the arrangements which he organised with me by himself, and his uNPD father and I didn't communicate about. 

I'm inclined to leave things as they are.

AOD

[square]

Agreed. Many times I've found just letting things be is enough for them to work out.

And if it comes up again, you can just shrug it off as nbd rather than try to address it head on. That approach would likely ease DS's worries as well - it's not "a problem that needs to be sorted" but "a non issue that is already working just fine."

[Associate of Daniel]

So, ds brought it up again.  We had a long to and fro.  His desire is for him to be the initiator of communication between the 3 of us regarding his movements.  But he wants to cut out a step in the process.  By sending a message to both of us at the same time there is less toing and frying for him, and I'm inclined to agree with him.

So I've essentially said I'd give it a go but that if his uNPD father and uNPD smother create drama, either on the app or via email to me, that I would have to revisit it.

Thinking about it later though, I concluded that if they do create drama, it's more likely to be by email directly to me, and I could just deal with it just as I usually do.  Ds doesn't need to know.  I might tell him if it gets bad though.

So that's where things lie at the moment.

Thanks for all of your imput.  I'll let you know if it all turns pear shaped.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

Update:  We haven't yet set up WhatsApp but for the last 2 weeks, ds18 has sent an email to both of us (uNPD exH and me.  Strangely not to his uNPD Smother, although he may have bcc'd her.  I haven't asked.)

The arrangement was that we would both reply "reply all".  I did on both weeks.  His father didn't reply at all the first week.  He replied just to ds this week.

Just to back track and set the scene:  When uNPD exH first left we started email only communication.  After some time he emailed me with a new address, saying that all communication was to be sent to the new address from then on.  I complied without fuss and have done ever since.

A year or so after he changed his address I decided to set up an email address for his communications only, because my only other email address was getting confusing as it was being used for everything.  I set up a new address:  mrsfirstnamemarriednameyear....  Those were the days when I didn't know much about email addresses.  I'd noticed that many people's personal addresses were their names and year of their birth.  I wanted my name but I wasn't that name when I was born, so I put the year of my marriage at the end of the address.

I then emailed uNPD exH, using almost identical wording from his same request to me of a while before.  He hit the roof.  Told me I was "slandering" him, or a word to that affect.  Said that he and his uNPD wife/girlfriend would not be using my new address.

Admittedly at the time they were chucking tanties because I was refusing to revert back to my maiden name.  So, there was a little bit of snark at my end regarding the new email address.  However, I also was quite clueless at the time as to how the email address thing worked.

Anyway, I assumed they'd blocked my new address, I moved everything else over to the new one and continued communicating with them (to this day) on the old one.

At some point a few years later I blocked them on the new address, simply because I wanted to ensure it was a safe place from them.  My thinking was that they may one day even accidentally use the address.

Fast forward a few more years.  One day I emailed him, I think about a change of pick up plan.  I didn't receive a reply.  Somehow I found out (I can't remember how) that he had replied.  I couldn't for the life of me find the emails.  Then I realised that I had accidentally sent it from the address that they refused to use.  They had (I assume unwittingly) replied to that address but because they were blocked I hadn't received their reply.

I'm fairly sure that I unblocked them at that point.

So, back to this week:  Ds says that his uNPD father has replied only to him and not "reply all".  I might get him to check that when he's here tomorrow, as his father may have done the right thing but he might still be blocked at my end.  I've been hunting around all things email and can't see that he's blocked but I might have it wrong.

If it's not a fault at my end, I think I'll give this communication arrangement another week and see if uNPD exH does the right thing.  If he doesn't, ds and I will have to come up with some other arrangement.  Or we could set up WhatsApp and see if his father behaves with that.

Strangely, but not, I have not heard a word from uNPD exH regarding communication after court orders have expired.  His uNPD wife, I suspect, is again the driving force behind the drama. I think uNPD exH doesn't want any communication at all, but she can't cope with that idea.  So I'm guessing she's dragged ds into the whole thing again.

Anyway, rant and process writing over.  Thanks for reading.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

Update:

WhatsApp has been set up and running for a month or so now.

So far uNPD exH, who was the one demanding it be set up, has kept to the process - hmmm - maybe twice?

I've made sure I've done everything as requested by ds.

Ds is frustrated with his uNPD father about it but has decided he'll keep messaging us both on the app with his plans.  If his uNPD father doesn't respond and then tries to change plans last minute, too bad.

In the meantime, I've not heard a peep from him (uNPD exH) or his uNPD wife.  They've got what they wanted:  To see my communications to ds, without them doing the same.

Never mind. In a year or so this WhatsApp arrangement probably will have faded away.

AOD

[square]

A good outlook and a solid plan.

[Associate of Daniel]

As I suspected, the WhatsApp thing has essentially fizzled out.  Ds19 would send his plans through on the app but his uNPD father and uNPD smother basically never replied.  I did, unless I needed to communicate something more to him, in which case I'd do it by text.

On my birthday last year, uNPD smother sent me a happy birthday message on WhatsApp - breaking Ds's rules. I didn't respond but I did eventually block her on the app.

Nowadays ds sends his plan on WhatsApp and no-one replies on that platform.  We instead communicate directly with him by text.

It's so much better and Ds seems ok with it.

I wonder what the next drama will be.

AOD