Understanding my own guilt

[Izak80]

I have a question that has been aching me that I haven't resolved through counseling yet.

As stated in my former threads I am divorced and remarried. Happily remarried in a thriving two year marriage.

During my first marriage there was one issue (among many) that sometimes haunts my thoughts.

My first wife had a lot of trauma in her childhood and included many triggers from both the kids and I.

She had us memorise both her past and those triggers- which were so numerous it was hard to remember them all.

She was triggered by:

Loud Noise- she said it had to do with something that happened to her while she was a teen in a nightclub. This included background music in restaurants, my kids watching television (eventually they would all watch television with earphones), being on the phone, or even my kids listening to worship music in their room with the door closed. It would also include us talking with loud volumes (not screaming, just a little extra volume in regular convos).
It would literally cause her to lose her cool in anger and yell at us that we didn't care about her if we forgot to make adjustments in any of these areas. If she returned home from shopping and my kids were watching television. She would lose her cool and we would all scramble to find the remote to turn off the TV and then she could calm down. 

Leaving the house even for just 10 minutes without saying goodbye- she said this was because he brother died and never got a chance to say goodbye. If she looked for us and we weren't in the house she would also lose her cool in anger and said we didn't care about her since we knew this trigger of hers and decided to leave anyways (even just to go down the street a couple of minutes). She would ground the kids for this even when they were teens! Once they got her permission to leave and she fell asleep. They left without saying goodbye because they didn't want to wake her and she grounded my daughter saying she didn't care.  My daughter already had her permission to go with a friend, but didn't say goodbye.

- any information regarding sexual innuendo. For instance once she asked me why everyone is up in arms about Brett Kavenaugh. I shared with her what he is being accused of and she freaked out at me and gave me silent treatment and yelled at me for not being sensitive.

- Grief- her brother died in 1982. At the year anniversary she would ask the whole family to take off a week and hold her while she would grieve- even still (43 years later). She would be triggered by everything. Once I told her I can't take off work (in 2019- 37 years after) and she threatened divorce when I shared with her it's too hard for the kids and I to take off a week in a grieving house every year and she needs to come to acceptance. She basically said that's what families do. I just shared gently with understanding it was hard for us to grieve with her a week and take off our regular schedule especially when we all felt we were stepping over eggshells the whole time. She cussed me out saying I didn't understand relationships and that it's normal to be like this when grieving and we should be supportive. And that she does so much for me and the kids a week of grieving ever year isn't too much to ask.  She was 7 years old when she lost her brother and at that time was 45. I didn't understand why she is grieving like he just passed every year so many years later.  I was there for her for over a decade, but was honesty exhausted and decided that it was too much for our family to do this forever.

TV shows- she would freak out when even watching the Narnia series with the stranger creatures. 

Stress- she got super triggered over normal life stresses.

Touch- sometimes she wanted touch and deeply needed it, other times a simple hug would set her off.

Sex- she was always triggered the day after and her nervous system demanded that I would hold her a full day and if I couldn't (work, etc) she would get really angry.

Clumsy- when she was doing dishes and became clumsy and dropped something. She would turn around and look for the closest person and lay into them for whatever reason (you are making noise, you are in my vicinity and I needed space, etc).

There was a long list of many more and they all had their reasons. However, we were expected to know these and for whatever reason we forgot, she would say we don't care and lay into us.

Naieve- sometimes me as her husband being naieve at a situation or not knowing someone's motives triggered her and she would project that onto me in anger.

Confronting gently- if I would confront her gently she would get triggered and couldn't handle gentle loving confrontation. I yelled or raised my voice at her maybe once a year (I'm a generally happy and optimistic gentle person). Sometimes even my happy would trigger her and make her angry. She considered it fake.

Disassociate- sometimes I didn't know how to answer her without triggering her so I would check out in my thoughts afraid of backlash if I answered her even if I validated her feelings first (which she often would say that's fake). That is normal to be triggered by- it's interesting I don't disassociate much at all anymore since being out of the marriage.

My problem is that I had ADHD, oftentimes didn't realise the volume of my talking, and sometimes had to answer important phone calls at home. I first believe that best about people and she first believed the worst, and that triggered her that I was so naieve.

Anyways- during our divorce, she stated that I wasn't supportive of her and her triggers (I tried really hard and missed it sometimes because of my ADHD not intentionally). She claimed during the divorce that my confrontation and expectations of her needing to deal with her triggers and it was making it impossible to be in the house without being ourselves and constantly stepping over eggshells. Even when I tried really hard, ADHD had me doing things mindlessly sometimes- like singing or humming- when 15 years of marriage I should've known this triggers her.

Also breathing hard triggered her- at some point I gained lots of weight and breathed hard (I've lost it since)- she felt love demanded I would take care of that since the sound of breathing triggered her (it reminded her of sex).

When I separated (I didn't want a divorce) and demanded she take care of her triggers because I can't live up to the expectations anymore- she claimed I don't understand relationships.

Sometimes I look back and ask myself if she was correct. If good relationships demanded I be a better caretaker and more aware of these small things (which I did try for over a decade and lost myself with ADHD mindless mistakes in these small things). If I was too hard on her for these things during the separation when I laid out a list of things that need to change for my sake and the kids sake.  I remember when sharing with her that I'm separating and sharing why, she put her face down in sadness and said "what if I can't change?" She decided she wanted a divorce rather than fulfill my requirements to come back into the house from a separation. She felt abandoned.

Often I feel, did I do this the right way?

[Izak80]

Forgot to say she was also triggered by my parenting style and that came out by confronting me in front of the kids about where I was wrong.

She was also triggered by jealousy of any kind- she would ground my daughter if she hung out with another mother (like at a friends house)more than her and even ground her saying "you love that other mother more than me".
Also triggered by my good relationship with my mom and dad and anytime I talked to them on the phone (which became rare to keep her happy) she would express extreme frustration (especially my mom). She even knew where this came from (her mother died in when she was three months old and had a step mom that was not nurturing). But again, she expected us to change as not to trigger her rather than thinking how she could deal with her mother issues so I could have a good relationship with my mom without feeling her disgust or my daughter go hang out with her friends and their moms without feeling jealousy. I once made a mistake when she grounded my daughter for hanging out with her friend and her friends mom saying "you love that other mother more than me " (it happened several times with different people)... I yelled  "you shouldn't feel jealousy over this" and judged her and didn't validate her feelings. I told her to unground my daughter immediately and that it was silly (one of the few times I lost my cool). She actually did, but fell into shame and rebuked me saying "you can't tell me how to feel". I believe at that moment she was correct. I shouldn't have. I just lost my cool because my daughter was broken over something she didn't feel she did anything wrong.

[Izak80]

I think another reason I deal with guilt over deciding to separate is because she claimed abandonment when I separated. This is ultimately why she decided she wanted a divorce. She claimed abandonment because of the separation even though we did a no fault and she filed. I still paid all the bills and lived in a bus during that time. But she felt it was abandonment.

Today many in our  community sees my decision to separate until she deals with her triggers as abandonment. I've lost many friends. Our divorce counseling feels like she had BPD and even one covert narcissism and another histrionic.  But they also all told me I did the separation the wrong way. I snapped during one of her rage episodes and told her calmly I am separating and left the house the same day. That day she raged at me because I ungrounded my daughter after she grounded her for the situation I shared about her leaving the house to go to an event she already had permission to go to when her friend picked her up and her mom was sleeping and she didn't want to wake her. Interesting, my daughter also decided to live with friends that day and didn't want to go home after her mom snapped at her on the phone saying "you know I get triggered by leaving the house without telling me." My ex wife (then my wife) called me and said she grounded my daughter and told me why. I gently asked her some clarifying questions (knowing it's not good to discipline kids based on triggers). She hung up the phone of me in anger and cancelled picking me up from the car shop to turn my car in for fixing to punish me asking clarifying questions. I came home in an uber, ungrounded my daughter, and she found out and cussed me out. I told her then I am separating until she deals with everything.  My daughter found out and decided she also didn't want to go home and stayed with a friend and didn't talk to her mom three months.  She was 17 at the time- she was deeply hurt by her mom exploding at her.

Anyways, our counselors told me I should've separated but did it the wrong way. They started working on me for codependency and her for her triggers. She walked out on them.

My community felt I did it the wrong way and blame me for the way I walked out- even though my intention wasn't for divorce.  They felt like it should've happened more in stages .

My kids (even my daughter who still acknowledges her mom has BPD) felt like I did it the wrong way and now their mom is struggling because of me (that hurts because I was standing up for both them and me).

When I started courting my now wife a year after the divorce finalized,  my ex expressed to my kids she was wrong and wanted to get back together with me.

My daughter told me this with great hopes and was angry at me courting someone else. Trying to convince me her mom is better now  and is getting help and I should consider remarrying her.

I had already committed to this amazing beautiful courtship. My kids even had a great relationship beforehand with their now very healthy step mom.
I decided to go on with the courtship and it was the first time my kids cut me off.

Now two years into our marriage, an amazing beautiful marriage of my dreams... very healthy. My kids feel like their mom's caretaker. She is struggling financially (I gave her 100k, everything I had and 2k a month in child support). She blew through it and now my community feels like I abandoned her. Now there is only one kid left I'm paying child support for and it amounts to 1k a month and there mom barely holds on to jobs and is deep in debt. Everyone looks at me like a deadbeat.

I often ask myself, "am I a deadbeat"? I have the most amazing marriage ever with someone who adores my kids, and now my kids are barely talking to me.

I deal with guilt back to the way I handled this.

My ex is in debt over her head which affects my kids.
I lost my community.
My kids barely talking to me.

God and my marriage and my work (which I love) is my only comfort. I have another baby on the way. A beautiful bundle of joy, but my heart is aching for my kids.  My wife feels like she hit the jackpot as well and deeply loves being married to me. We communicate with so much beauty and health and even our fights are mature and don't involve yelling, but talking things out and coming to compromises. I believe I was always this person- but didn't have a voice at all in my first marriage- her way or Hell to pay.

But still I struggle with guilt.
Everytime someone asks me a question about the way I handled it.
Everytime I step into my small community and someone gives me an eye like I'm a deadbeat.
Everytime I see my kids struggle and their need for a dad which they reject.
Or when my community steps up to help my ex financially (even though I gave her 100k and pay my child support faithfully without complaint and even joy I get to support them).
They don't know that one of the reasons she has a hard time holding on to a job is because she suddenly leaves when she gets offended at the boss and sometimes runs her mouth.

Even my wife feels these judgments on her for marrying me (in my community remarriage is looked down upon, I should've waited for her to get better and remarried her).

I can't move outside my community, it's where my kids are. Oftentimes I am tempted to move away where judgments don't exist, but then it would drive me further from my kids seeing I am close and waiting for them).

It's a painful joy. Painful due to my kids, the guilt the community looks at me with, etc. joy because I have a godly amazing wife and a baby on the way and a fulfilling job.

But sometimes doubts arise.

Was remarrying a sin? It seems to have caused a lot of pain and judgements. Even though the presence of God is in our marriage and we feel it strongly in our fellowship with one another and God.

I look at the trajectory of my kids life and feel guilt for putting them in that position the day I decided to separate (in deep hopes it could help our family get healthier and the opposite happened).
I feel guilt that I am the only one from that nuclear family doing well.

When she wanted a divorce, should I have fought harder to make sure that doesn't happen (often an accusation from my kids, that I didn't fight but accepted her request for a divorce). Even my ex told me in the past "why didn't you fight for me and just let me divorce you."

My ex threw the scriptures in my face about remarriage right before my wedding about remarriage- when she conveniently told me a week before my wedding she wanted to get back with me (after she was dating bad people immediately after our marriage and I didn't consider even dating for a year to heal).

Honestly, after my marriage experience. I didn't even want to get back together with her. Although I did wrestle with it deeply for scripture sake.
A pastor married me and my second wife and she said she is bewildered why that pastor would not tell me to go back to my former wife (very conservative pastor who knew both of us and my former wife and considers abuse a reason to allow divorce and remarriage).

I look back at this sometimes and think... was I wrong? Then why do I have such an amazing Spiritfilled marriage free of drama?

[xredshoesx]

it sounds like you did everything you humanly could to not be the cause of the upset and that ending the relationship was the healthiest thing you could do for you and your kids.

as a CSA survivor, it's MY responsibility to manage and deal with my triggers, not my husband's or anyone else's.

a boundary he has with me is giving me SPACE and time to process when things go awry (bc they do). 

i'm glad you have given yourself permission to move on and are seeing and processing how you are not responsible for any of the ways she responded to you and the kids in the past. 

[Izak80]

Sorry for the long post. Maybe it's just memories and thoughts I am writing out as I wrestle with my feelings.

I do feel that the pain of the bad memories has subsided. They only come up when dealing with my kids.

Oftentimes I deal with the pain (and even guilt) of the good memories. The memories when she wasn't dysregulating (which was often). All the selfless acts. All the kind acts. Her commitment to the kids and I and being a momma bear.

Did I overlook these areas in the depths of my pain when confronting her triggers at me and the kids? Altogether she is not a bad person. She had her demons, but meant well until it came to her triggers. Without her triggers she tried. Sometimes memories of her selfless act will come up and I feel "was I too hard on her during the separation?" I have zero romantic feelings whatsoever for her. What kept my marriage together during what seemed to be constant chaos was commitment to her and God and vows I made- as well as glimpses and in some seasons more consistent good memories. She would often apologize for her anger triggers and the harm she caused with them. Sometimes getting on her hands and knees and saying how bad she is and how ashamed of her behavior she was. She would really try hard for a short while on her own will to not let it happen again... after several tools she got, sshe would slip back into chaos. However she wouldn't ask for our help outside of understanding and trying to avoid her triggers- which were extremely difficult to avoid with everyday life. She didn't want accountability and felt like she had enough self accountability. However, she tried. But the pain she caused was very deep and at the same time. I ask, I was patient but with no improvement for 19 years. Did I give up?

Did I hurt a human being who is now struggling so much?
Not on a romantic level, more on the level of hurting another human being who I did life with for so many years?

That one decision for me to separate seemingly did so much damage and I am the only one to come out of it blessed and thriving.

[Izak80]

One interesting thought,

Right after I separated I had a friend I hadn't spoken to in a couple of years write me suddenly and ask "is everything ok with you and your spouse"? Very  Curious cause I had separated just a few days before , I asked "why do you ask?" They said they had a dream about me the prior night.

I said, "share with me your dream ".

They said they dreamt me and my spouse with the kids together and then my spouse hovered over us projecting a grey fog. The kids and I couldn't see anything and I was standing there puzzled about what to do about the fog. Then I saw clear skies above me. So in the dream I shot up above the clouds to get a better and clearer view but had to leave my wife and kids to do this. In the dream my friend thought" why is my friend leaving his family?" Then they thought "oh to get a view above the fog!" Then the dream ended.

I told my friend, I JUST SEPARATED and told them what was going on.

That dream at that time caused me to believe I was doing the right thing and there was hope for my family. I had considered going back to the house, but that dream made me feel that I needed to stick this out as long as it took for my spouse to go get help or us get help together and our family could be restored without the chaos we had been experiencing for years.

This is why the forum "Out of the FOG" caught my attention.

A few days later another friend came to me who knew I had separated and shared with me his dream. He dreamt I was considering going back to the house and he was pleading with me to"don't do this yet, it's not the right time." Again left me with a resolve that I need to stick this out until my spouse decides we need to go get help and bring our family to health.

Three months into the separation while sticking this out my ex decided to file for divorce. I was left devestated. Not the results I was hoping for.

I prayed about it and and took a retreat to pray and process my feelings. At that time I felt I heard from the Lord, "if that's what she wants, let her go." That's when I decided not to fight. I told her I don't want a divorce but also don't want to go back to the way things were. I stood on that until the divorce we finalised. Even pleading with her not to divorce, but also standing that until things get better I wasn't coming home. Until the last day that was my stance. Not the outcome I was believing for.

[square]

That's quite a dream.

What you described is so far off normal, and so unhealthy. The imbalance is extreme.

The way I manage my own questions of "was it me? Was I not __ enough?" and so on, is to ask myself if he worried as much as I did about the same topic.

I'm sure your children also developed triggers - hard not to feel on edge watching TV if you're worried your mom might come home and freak out on you.

So did she worry about how the kids felt triggered when she yelled? Did she worry about anybody's comfort? Did she take a full week off per year to feel the exact feelings that you wanted her to feel - and no, the feelings she thonks she should have don't count, she needs tonscramble to adjust her feelings to your exact specifications, and she'll have to deal with your displeasure because her efforts will not be good enough.

No? She didn't worry about that stuff?

Interesting.

[Izak80]

it sounds like you did everything you humanly could to not be the cause of the upset and that ending the relationship was the healthiest thing you could do for you and your kids.

as a CSA survivor, it's MY responsibility to manage and deal with my triggers, not my husband's or anyone else's.

a boundary he has with me is giving me SPACE and time to process when things go awry (bc they do). 

i'm glad you have given yourself permission to move on and are seeing and processing how you are not responsible for any of the ways she responded to you and the kids in the past.

That was very enlightening. Thank you for sharing. My now wife also survived SA but deals with it beautifully. She has done slot work. It's encouraging to know you and your husband found ways to work this out!!!Sometimes I am not so sure it was the best thing to do for my kids. We did joint custody, but my kids (besides my daughter) are nearly completely estranged from me today. I am heart broken. They are with her and I feel are codependent with her. At least when I was in the house they had a safe place. I used to travel for work and my dUghter told me that she was upset when I travelled because it got worse and I was her safe place. She said "you got to breathe, we didn't!" But I know if I wouldn't have travelled (about 3 months total out of the year split up into 14 day segments once very two months). I honestly don't know if I could have been strong for them emotionally myself without my periodic work travels. I was a tour guide and also did foreign missions coaching indigenous pastors in evangelism and church planting. Still do this. My wife does it together with me today. I did invite my family into this but it wasn't my ex's cup of tea.  I did have them travel with me when I was a tour guide for Israel in archeology. My ex also was extremely afraid demons would attack her because I was very effective in ministry and would get angry at me for not praying hard enough against spiritual backlash. She said demons would attack her everytime I saw breakthrough in the ministry in some foreign mission field and yell at me to pray harder to protect the family in prayer because my prayers weren't working because she felt constantly "attacked."

I miss my boys a lot. They are with her and the estrangement mostly started when I got remarried. Not because they don't like my wife... they do! They are just angry that I decided to get remarried. Their anger is at me and not my wife. Even my daughter at first like I said held hopes I would remarry her mother and her mother would get better (emotionally and psychologically). She barely talked to me six months during my courtship and marriage angry that I didn't consider remarrying her mother.
Interesting, two years later, today, my daughter told me the behaviours haven't changed. That gave me some validation m. She said she sees I am in a very good place. She still is codependent and living with her mother though. She is almost 22 and tries to leave to start her life and always finds herself going back to her mom's house.

My 19 year old is addicted to marijuana and lives with his mom with off jobs and no direction. He parties day and night always needs money. He estranged from me when I confronted him and his mom a year and a half ago that I disagree that marijuana is good for his Aspergers. He got addicted like I thought he would. His mom would get angry when I said I refuse to pay for the dope. She wanted me to call it his "meds". He gets it off the black market and my ex tried to get me to pay with her for her half of it and said I'm responsible for paying half his meds. My son cut me off when I said I disagree with it and refuse to give money for it.

My 15 year old only recently cut me off when I shared with my wife is pregnant. Nearly three months later he is still barely talking to me.

It's very painful.

Not sure my kids are better off.

[Izak80]

That's quite a dream.

What you described is so far off normal, and so unhealthy. The imbalance is extreme.

The way I manage my own questions of "was it me? Was I not __ enough?" and so on, is to ask myself if he worried as much as I did about the same topic.

I'm sure your children also developed triggers - hard not to feel on edge watching TV if you're worried your mom might come home and freak out on you.

So did she worry about how the kids felt triggered when she yelled? Did she worry about anybody's comfort? Did she take a full week off per year to feel the exact feelings that you wanted her to feel - and no, the feelings she thonks she should have don't count, she needs tonscramble to adjust her feelings to your exact specifications, and she'll have to deal with your displeasure because her efforts will not be good enough.

No? She didn't worry about that stuff?

Interesting.

Those are great questions.

My parents , who also suffered from her, but always encouraged me to work it out and refused to get involved and was for our marriage... shared with me more of their feelings and pain they saw me going through post divorce. They didn't want to be meddling into our marriage so they shared less during the marriage.

They asked me that same question post divorce. Do you think she would have cared about the same way? They know and saw the answer was no. It was one sided. Although to be fair she did do nice things for me. The only time I got her attention was the few times I broke down and cried or the few times I yelled. She responded by getting down on her knees and hitting her mouth calling herself bad. It was strange. Usually when I shared I am having a hard time with the projection she would get triggered. I am pretty even kiltered and looking back on it she would only respond if I got very emotional at a near break down. She would then explain it away talking about how much stress she is under and I found it odd that it ended with me comforting her in her shame when I was the one bleeding with hurt when she exploded. At the time I was ok with that, looking back I am bewildered that I emotionally gave in to comforting her in her shame right after she would explode at me or the kids.

I think our kids do have lots of triggers my daughter told me she needs counseling to work on it. My sons claim I am the one they need healing from due to my travels and my remarriage.

My middle son is more complex. My ex and I have extreme different parenting styles with his Aspergers. She deals with him the same way she deals with herself- with empathy to his struggles than enables him. Almost treats him like an invalid.  She told me we will need to support him for the rest of his life. He is High functioning and I see so many gifts in him. She makes excuses for his explosive temper as well and tries to create a trigger less environment. They nearly have the same temperament. Exploding at the smallest triggers. The message I got from her is "he can't" and I need to come to terms with that. He can't do without marijuana. He can't do without his Xbox 12 hours a day. He can't deal with accountability. Etc. when I'm with him and he is triggered, he calls his mom who yells at me together with him. So I feel hopeless to be a dad to him. I can't father him without her getting involved that I'm doing it wrong.
 
Once when he was 14  he was over at my parents house and took the golf cart without my parents permission and wrecked it into my parents car. My dad said firmly in a loud voice (but not yelling) to my son, " I told you to ask me, why didn't you listen." My son then ran to his room in anger crying. My ex came out and got in my dad's face and screamed, " you don't know how to deal with an Asperger kid, this is why everyone hates you. " literally in his face almost as if she wanted a fight. Then she looked at me and yelled "why aren't you sticking up for me". I was just standing there in shock that she got in my dad's face.

She would do the same thing with school principals and anyone in authority working with my son. When he got in trouble, she would become momma bear and blame schools and other institutions for not being professional and knowing how to work with an Asperger's kid.

Once I thought it would be good for him to get a job at 16 years old. I reached out to my friend who does tree work. He agreed to mentor him and hire him. She asked him if he would also hire a helper to be beside him and manage his emotions (my son is mentally high functioning but emotionally blows up easy when triggered by sounds or anything discomforting). You wouldn't know he is autistic until he is sensory triggered. He looks and acts like a regular person, socially functions well, is outgoing, etc. he also gets stuck on things with obsessions- like hobbies, sports games, etc. My friend told me ex he never heard of hiring a helper for a worker. She got angry at him and told him he is unprofessional. My friend knew my son and felt like he was capable.

I honestly think she sees herself in him and wishes he had everybody around him managing his emotional triggers rather than learning how to self manage with coping skills.

I took my son to my parents house when he was 17 and he didn't like the vibe of a restaurant and was losing patience. We took him to McDonald's instead but asked him to wait after he finished  while we ordered to go at the restaurant we wanted to eat at. He lost patience with us while waiting for our to go order after he ate and wanted to go to the house immediately. He was already angry that we didn't honor his request to take him home immediately after he ate because we went and ordered to go. He can't stand waiting (now my ex got him in our country a legal status that he doesn't have to wait in line anywhere).  On the way to the house he asked for the music to be turned off and the air conditioning to go on full blast. My mom and I were talking before he asked and he then started raging that we didn't hear him immediately and Waited two minutes to turn the air conditioning on full blast and he was uncomfortable. He got to the house and slammed the door and broke the window of the car. He called his mom who then told me and my parents off for not being sensitive to his Aspergers.

I see this as enabled behaviour.

My son today literally believes I haven't come to terms with his Aspergers and is one of the reasons he has chosen to estrange himself from me.