Resisting the black hole

[Kuboja]

Please excuse the long topic.

This is very new ground for me in an old internal conflict.   
I have been married for 22 years.  Most of the 22 years I have dealt with my wife who exhibits all the signs of someone with BPD.  She recently has elevated to a point where she put our life endanger while driving at around 75 miles an hour she started to hit me and try to grab my phone (which was between my legs).  Over the past 10 years all of the lockable doors in our home have holes and or broken knobs where she has tried to get to me when I am locked in a room.  She accuses me of sleeping with my boss and even my sister 

Back to today.  It is a record for me to be out of the house (3 weeks!! the other times were a max of 2 days), only allowing text and not responding to all the 100s of text.  I have been spending a lot of time with my two sisters doing things and also going to car shows and doing other things I like to do.

Three weeks ago she blacked out from not eating and injured.  I stayed at home a couple of days for her to recover.  We went to see a marriage councilor, just like the other councilors he said he wanted to only council her and could not continue to council us together until she got to a certain point.

Now I am finding it very difficult to change my own pattern of going back when she says she says she has changed.  In my heart I think it would absolutely be best for me to not go back at all. 

She has seen a psychiatrist who gave her a serotonin medicine which does not make here sleepy.  This is the first time she has taken medicine in the last 10 years.  She has been taking it for a couple of days.  She has seen a councilor as well which is a good sign, but not sure it will last.  In the past it has never lasted. 

She now is claiming she woke up one day a week ago and realized that she was totally wrong in all the things she has done to me.  Everyday now she is saying she only wants me to come back and love me unconditionally. Further stating she will not track my movements with GPS, not accuse me of sleeping with other people, give me space in the house and let me have alone time without disturbing me.  She also said she would not wake me up in the middle of the night yelling..... saying now that it was her belief and thoughts that made her angry and not me....

Reading other posts it seems the telling factor is time.   The plans this week are to get an apartment for a 6 month lease.  Would 6 months be enough, I don't think anyone knows.  She is begging me to come home. 

I would like to hear of similar stories where it went sideways after going back and also any stories where it went great after going back.

Thank you so much for your support in advance

[square]

Hey there,

It sounds like you have a very clear vision of what is going on. You mentioned it's specifically difficult not to go back when she says she has changed.

It is very unlikely she has changed. It's difficult for any of us to make any significant changes on this level, but all the more so for someone whose outlook, beliefs, behavior, and feelings are rooted in a personality disorder.

For someone with BPD, the primary directive is to "get them back," to resume the relationship. But where the disorder is so destructive is that their overpowering need to resume a relationship does not include the ability/motivation to make any actual lasting and true changes to their behaviors or outlook. Only to get the person back, and then, once the crisis is averted, to resume business as usual.

Personality disorders are so difficult because everything is rooted into the personality, into the thought patterns. A person might be able to, say, quit a substance addiction, and that is very difficult work. They would have to change both behavior and thinking. But in a personality disorder, there are very deep rooted ideas that are unlikely to ever change. For example, my husband used to explain his behavior by saying "I wouldn't have to X (yell, drive erratically, name call) if you didn't Y (respond less than enthusiastically, feel annoyed about a broken promise)." There just isn't any explanation that would make him remotely see that he had any choice in the matter, that my annoyance or low enthusiasm does not naturally require or even justify his extreme efforts to force my enthusiasm. Nor would he have any inkling that yelling at me isn't the method to ensure my love or patience or smiles.

My husband could have easily admitted later, when the heat of the moment passed, that he might have overreacted. But I have come to understand that he would still believe that his behavior would still be warranted against my noncompliance - his admission was just that maybe that particular instance didn't rise to the level of his response. He still believed that it was normal and natural and frankly unavoidable to engage in those tactics if "necessary."

I found that SSRIs did reduce the conflict a bit. My husband described it as feeling more of a "buffer" before melting down, that he could let more things slide. But it did not change his beliefs and thought patterns. He would still believe that relationship-destroying methods were warranted under certain circumstances. It's just that those circumstances were a bit less frequent.

I have heard these "moments of clarity" before, and I can believe that people with BPD may be sincere when they have them. But it's part of the pattern - this black and white thinking. They think this feeling, this moment, will last forever. It won't. They picture it like, "I would do ANYTHING IN THE WORLD if you just came home right now, it would flood me with such relief and I would feel so much love for you, I'd do anything to get you back." And I think that's really how they feel. But you come home, and they feel the relief, and it's wonderful, and next Tuesday the relief is gone and she's just pissed because you went out to wherever with a friend. She won't remember the relief; even if she intellectually could, it would be a very faraway abstract thing, she would only feel the resentment. Poof. It's back to eggshells and fighting.

Whatever you decide, keep coming back and sharing your thoughts.

[MaxedOut]

I have heard these "moments of clarity" before, and I can believe that people with BPD may be sincere when they have them. But it's part of the pattern - this black and white thinking. They think this feeling, this moment, will last forever. It won't. They picture it like, "I would do ANYTHING IN THE WORLD if you just came home right now, it would flood me with such relief and I would feel so much love for you, I'd do anything to get you back." And I think that's really how they feel. But you come home, and they feel the relief, and it's wonderful, and next Tuesday the relief is gone and she's just pissed because you went out to wherever with a friend. She won't remember the relief; even if she intellectually could, it would be a very faraway abstract thing, she would only feel the resentment. Poof. It's back to eggshells

I think this is spot on for BPD, when there is actual penetration and feeling bad about harm (unsure of NPDs would really feel in this way). Sometimes it's more control/fear of abandonment.

Also it sounds pretty (familiarly) abusive. That comes with it's own dynamics in these situations, where the behavior can stay good until the abused person feels locked back in enough or the cycle of abuse reaches the release stage. My ex had traits of both. The Verbally Abusive Relationship and Why Does he Do That and Emotional Blackmail are good books on some of that stuff.

Square is right to point out the entrenchment. That took a while for me to really accept. Therapeutic modalities with some effectiveness for BPD are largely about controlling some of the response cycle and trying not to escalate thinking. They aren't changing the underlying distortions really. And when they work the advice is typically that it takes a couple of years of intensive work.

That takes significant internal motivation because the therapies will trigger stuff and take sustained hard work and admission that the person with BPD is the source of much of their own problems (ergo BPD patterns of splitting and quitting and blaming often cut things short).

Romantic relationships are such a nexus for dysregulation that I think it is hard for someone with BPD ESPECIALLY when it includes rage/physical outbursts who is earnestly wanting to change to really have that on the mix. Less charged relationships are where it's easier to practice skills and build those muscles. It can also be exhausting for that person to try and not do any of a list of ingrained patterns in that close of a relationship, especially cohabitating.

My ex at one point said it was exhausting "walking on eggshells" with me all the time. I'd never used that phrase nor had a copy of the BPD book of that name or even mentioned BPD to her.

But we had a pretty major interaction with me talking explicitly about abuse and I had started enforcing my own boundaries for myself about not sticking around for verbal or physical abuse. To her, not feeling like she was free to be abusive because I might say I won't continue talking if she does that (then would take a break if she didn't stop) *felt* like walking on eggshells (!) and masking. I also remember hearing her talking back to a YouTube video on authoritarian versus assertive conflict and getting frustrated about assertive but respectful conflict characteristics and saying things like "yes! Exactly!" when it was describing the toxic nature of authoritarian conflict aims. When I read about Reality 1 and Reality 2 in The Verbally Abusive Relationship that clicked so many pieces into place. I think I assumed every one wants mutuality in relationships but we sometimes get in the way of that, instead of realizing, that is not what some people want. That also means, the, "changing" even if successful is not actually having relationships be the way they want them (it's forcing them to be in a dynamic that is not what they want).

This is all to say, it takes a lot to sustain change, and the traits of BPD make it even harder. And I feel when abusive behaviors are in the mix, that it's even more true and breaking those habits plus requiring their reactions is a tall order and best practiced and engrained on less charged relationships.

I remember thinking at one point, that if I left, the conditions for me to consider a relationship would include a long time apart, her consistently doing a modality know to have some effectiveness for BPD (which means a structured therapy, intensive, and typically on the order of 1-2 years), and that she had demonstrated over time, the ability to hold other relationships together well—be a changed person in those. Like "if your family tells me you have repaired estranged relationships, and stopped the abusive behaviors with them, and you have started/maintained friendships where those folks don't feel like they have to tread very carefully, and you haven't gone off on any random people in a long time... it might mean you can approach romantic relationships responsibly. But probably never with me again. But I'll at least listen."

[Kuboja]

Thank you so much for the wise comments.  This means more than you can imagine for my path forward.  Of course my family is saying basically the same thing, but coming from two people that has gone down this road means so much to me, really.

I will come back and share comments often as it also helps to vent 

[1footouttadefog]

Can they really change, yes and no.

No the will always be a person with a personality disorder.  They might change behaviours because the determine it's to their advantage for some time but the underlying person and personality are still present.

They might adopt new behaviours and those might be more positive and the interactions will be more positives but if they lack empathy and the capacity to love you the way you need to be loved that will, they will never gain it. So no

Yes they can change actions, methods and types of abuse.  They can even change their "love" for you.  It's a decision based on math and using equations that don't always involve love and empathy.  That is why they can be so normal after a nasty fight and wonder what is wrong with us that we a re still upset. It's different for them, we are more like objects they decide to engage with or not, like choosing between a food processor or a treadmill, it's a matter of if their needs and desires are being met at that moment.

After decades of reading about this stuff here on Out of the FOG, I think that what would happen is that you would go back hoping to return to that version of her that you fell in love with.  However that person was a false image, an AI rendering that was used to deceive you.  You perhaps stayed and gave and adjusted and sacrificed yourself 22 years hoping you could get that person back.  They might have even appeared for a time at times, but in reality that is not the default setting.  It was not the real them.  The real them is what you have experienced.

The newly changed behaviours and patterns will allow you to believe you have the false image back until.....until they get tired of performing and the real them emerges once more.

Hate to be negative but this seems to repeat in story after story here.

I think 6 months or even a year lease is a great idea.  Taking your time is important because it's only over time that you will know for sure.

Another thing, can you change? Have you changed?   Can you get over what has been done?  Are you the same person who fell in love with who she seemed to be?  Does that guy exist anymore?  It would seem you are stronger in ways and have knowledge and skills and different ways of feeling love and other emotions because of 22 years.

I will caution you not to view anything as picking up where you left off.  Pick up where you are now. Things happened while you were in the fog and you can never go home again.  You are not that 22 years younger man.

Only you can decide where this goes over time, I hope you have all the strength, wisdom, and clarity to find your best path forward and your best possible life.   

[Kuboja]

Thank you, 1footoutofthefog, for the very insightful post. 

After 22 years, I do understand there are only short periods of happiness until she gets tired of adopting those behaviors.

Luckily, I finally realized I cannot continue the relationship with her, and I feel this deep inside me. 

I have a 6-month lease now, but will renew it unless we can finish the divorce before that time and I can move into a home.

There are some other disturbing actions on her side for which I will start another post, but I cannot see a world in the future where we are together again as a couple.

On a positive note, I actually was dancing to music in my new apartment while cleaning/setting it up.  I think you don't realize how much the feeling of imprisonment it is until you are free.

[hhaw]

Dancing is a shortcut to happiness, IME.

So is going NC with an irrational person when severing a relationship.

[Ed]

I'm living in my office for 3 years. We were meeting on weekends. Everytime it ended up criticising me in worst ways. Surely I did a lot wrong too. Since 6 weeks we are not seeing each other at all. And the behaviour has not changed at all. One day she is is insulting me and the next sending me funny memes like nothing happened at all. At this point I became allergic to all manipulations. I was making therapy, trying to explain and fix and asking me for years why I can't break up. One day I stopped therapy, stopped trying to fix myself. I understood that I have to change the situation not me. They are really good to make you think you are the problem. Both are. Both has to take responsibility. So the only way out was through changing my behaviour, become totally consistent. And the first weeks it was hell. I wanted to call or text so often but I didn't. And now I see no point in coming back as I see every day nothing has changed. You have to break with your old self and that's take a lot and it worth it. Only you can change the situation. Don't try to fix yourself. Set up rules for yourself and follow. Don't take the pain and struggle at the beginning too serious. It will fade. At some point you will think why haven't I done this earlier. You have all my respect and empathy as I know which hell you are going through.