Have I forgiven them?

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm not on the forum as much these days as my beautiful ds has "aged out" and is now essentially living his own life.  Life is good and normal now - a place that I never imagined while we were living the disruptive drama of pd land.  I'm so thankful.

However, in quiet times on my own I still find myself revisiting many of the various pd situations/conversations/incidents from years ago. I'm wondering if it's because I haven't yet processed them, or if I haven't put them to bed.  Or perhaps I haven't forgiven the upds.

Some of these ruminations are on things that happened over 10 years ago. (For context:  my uNPDs are my exH and his wife (Ds's smother)), and many of them are more to do with the smother than my ex.

I'm wondering - knowing that forgiveness is an ongoing choice - have I forgiven her?  Does my heart employ ANY forgiveness towards her?  Are my ruminations because of unforgiveness or because I am still healing?

A few times over the years she requested we go to counselling to sort out our differences.  Initially I  refused. Then I agreed but only with separate appointments.  Needless to say, all attempts barely got off the ground before she pulled out.

Other occasions (eg:  birthdays) I refused to attend because she was there.  Other times when she was there (eg:  weekly basketball games), I would ignore her and my ex and not exchange even hellos.  Neither did they, usually.  I had learned that even my "hello" wasn't safe with them.  They just aren't people who are safe for me to have anything to do with.

So does the fact that I don't speak with them or attend things with them mean that I have not forgiven them?

Mind you, I remember all the email exchanges from the early days when they would spew word salad, accusations, gaslightings etc onto the screen and I would agonise over every syllable they wrote and every syllable I wrote back, trying to address every minute subject they raised.  Needless to say it only fuelled their fire and never resolved anything.

I've not had any contact with my uNPD exH for over a year and it's coming up to a year since I last had any communication from the uNPD smother.  It's been bliss!  But my intermittent ruminations are troubling me.

Could it also be due to the fact that I am still on my own?  I've not dated or repartnered since the divorce just over 12 years ago and my marriage was the only relationship I've had.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling post.  I'm interested in your thoughts.

AOD

[NarcKiddo]

So does the fact that I don't speak with them or attend things with them mean that I have not forgiven them?

I don't think that follows. It is possible to forgive people who are already dead, after all. I also don't think that forgiveness includes a requirement that you develop a desire to spend time with them or communicate with them if such a thing is possible.

I am not religious (though I had a supposedly Christian upbringing) nor am I particularly spiritual, so I can't speak to how that might impact the concept of forgiveness. I struggle with what exactly it might mean, but my current thinking is that it is essentially neutral. That when you contemplate the person you don't really feel anything about the past events. You are able to acknowledge what they did without still wanting revenge or atonement or an apology. It is just a piece of history. You might choose to use your knowledge of the history to inform your present behaviour, such as choosing whether to be in contact with them and how guarded you want to be. I don't think ongoing protection of yourself nullifies forgiveness.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I agree completely. Maintaining boundaries means you have self-respect, not that you are unforgiving. If you can expect them to behave badly, in my opinion you are in fact doing them a kindness by not setting them up for more failure. I agree also with the characterization of forgiveness as letting go of any expectation of further apology or atonement. That's a good definition, NarcKiddo, thank you for that! Are you owed all of that? Perhaps, but you are releasing that debt, so to speak. I think that's good enough. And frees you.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, NarcKiddo and Call me Cordelia.

NarcKiddo, I no longer think about revenge, atonement or apology, but I am not yet at the point of  feeling nothing about some past events.  Some are coming to mind that I've not thought of in years.

I don't think terribly often about the past or about my uNPDs.  But when I do I seem to repeat past dramas in my head over and again.  I think the particular things I remember are just so ridiculous and non sensical that it's hard to dismiss the insanity of it.

I agree that forgiveness doesn't mean we have to have anything to do with our abusers and that it is sensible to continue to protect ourselves by essentially going no contact.

Call me Cordelia, I quite like your phrase about releasing the debt.  Unfortunately, these people continue through life racking up more and more of this debt from more and more people!

Thanks again,

AOD

[1footouttadefog]

To me forgiveness means they are no longer indebted to you.  You have cancelled their debt, and they owe you nothing. 

I use the forgive our centers version of the Lord's Prayer also known as the Our Father,  for this reason.

If a bank forgives a debt, they don't give someone a new loan. 

If your son is an adult , you don't have shared parenting so no need to be involved with people who are not safe for you. 

[Blueberry Pancakes]

The aspect of life being good and normal now without disruptive dramas of living in PD land is interesting. I feel similar about my life as I am No Contact with PDs in my family. Sometimes I wonder about my ruminations too. For myself, I wondered if I just got used to the pace of those disruptive dramas and without them, reflect back on past events because it feels familiar. I really do not know the answer. 
         
On the other side of it, perhaps ruminating serves to re-establish why we hold the boundaries we now have and reminds us of how far we have come. In my view, it is sort of like I hold a medal for surviving a battle when I know I could have easily gone down with the ship. I have new skills and new awareness because of it. It is invisible to everyone, so thinking of it makes sure I don't allow it to fade away. 
 
   

[Adria]

I still ruminate as well.  Sometimes something will come up and trigger us and take us right back there.  I have learned to just roll with the rumination and let it go.  Maybe it's a bit of a PTSD thing. I don't let it worry me anymore.  It was part of my life and it comes up every once in awhile. I accept that, and then let it pass.  I've also learned that when I question if I've forgiven someone, when the thought of them enters my mind, I send a blessing or offer another prayer of forgiveness toward them.  It's surprising how that releases the feeling of a possibility of unforgiveness. 

The people who keep hurting people over and over are caught in their own miserable trap.  By blessing them quietly and walking away, leaving them to their own devices, we are releasing them from our hemisphere, and thus freeing ourselves from taking on the responsibility of their actions and walking away from their misery in kindness. 

Forgiveness is a choice and frees us.  If we speak it out loud than we have forgiven them.  However, emotions are just emotions, and sometimes the feelings don't immediately follow the choice we just made.  Sometimes when we have been hurt so deeply, it takes awhile for our feelings to catch up with our actions.  It brings to mind, Jesus on the cross saying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Yet, they were still hurting him.  That is true power.

Be kind and patient with yourself.  Eventually, everything will level out, and everything will come into the right perspective.  You can extend grace from afar.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thank-you, so much, for your thoughts, everyone.

Forgiveness is an ongoing process, I think.  Also, there were so many dramas through those years that I probably haven't yet processed, due to simply just trying to survive until the next drama arose.  Now that I have more time on my hands pd free, the memories are surfacing.

I do wonder too, if I need to start creating another "story" regarding relationships, or just friendships.  My uNPD exH is the only relationship I've had.  But I like my solitude and am content in singleness (most of the time).

Anyway, it's interesting to observe the journey.  Thank-you for your support.

AOD

[Tribe16]

If a bank forgives a debt, they don't give someone a new loan. 

OMgosh, I love this. I'm going to use it. It's brilliant.