BIG change to coparenting - ex's incarceration

[seekjoy81]

I haven't been active here in a long time, but this year has thrown me for a loop.  A few months back an event happened that very quickly changed our trajectory. My ex was incarcerated, charged and awaiting trial for a serious violent felony involving another unrelated person.  Our kids (preteen and teen) were being actively alienated from my spouse of almost a decade and myself.  So I find myself dancing on a very thin line between the relief of him being functionally out of our day-to-day lives (for now at least), and helping our 2 kids deal with the messy situation.  They love their dad, and I'm not trying to use this situation to change that, but also since the poison has left their lives they are THRIVING. We've had 50/50, but my kids weren't really present or engaged when they were here.  Their dad was doing so many alienating things - involving them in litigation, he kept the kids from me 2 summers ago for a couple of months, anything "negative" that happened at our house was narrated to them as something sinister, he accused us of abuse... the kids were forced to report back everything that happened here, but could tell us nothing about what happened at their dad's ("I forgot" was all I ever got from them if I asked about their day or their weekend).... This is all verifiable in emails and text messages. When the kids were here, they were closed off and shut down. But now? I feel like I got them back. I feel like I'm getting to finally see the real them. They are present, joyful, active, fun to be around.... They share stories, ask questions, ask to do things... It's completely changed everything. I am so scared of what happens at trial, and what will happen if he's not found guilty and the kids have to share time with him again. I don't really know what my question is... I guess has anyone experienced this?  Or something similar?  I know this is an outlier story.  It's just so much to process.

[bloomie]

seekjoy81 - welcome back! I can only imagine the joy of having your kids back in your warm, consistent, caring home. I hope, alongside you, that their experience will be good medicine that goes down to the deepest parts of their hearts and minds and they continue to flourish and their trust unfurls.

Your concerns, in light of the uncertainty, make so much sense. This has to all be so confusing for both you and the kids. Are the kids getting any kind of opportunity to process this with a neutral kind of trustworthy person? A counselor, pastor, mentor type of person?

I am thinking they may need somewhere to go with their own questions and feelings around what their father has done and the changing and uncertain circumstances of their lives where they don't have to protect anyone else. Just some thoughts.

[seekjoy81]

Yes, the kids are in counseling - have been in counseling. I had to petition the court to make him sign the paperwork (prior to the incident happening), and my first call after I found out was to the kids' counselor.  They are also active in church youth group and have trusted support people around them.  That was paramount in making sure we had in place, because of the ways I've been villainized to them by their father, that they have neutral, trained people to walk with them in ways that I can't right now.

[bloomie]

Yes, the kids are in counseling - have been in counseling. I had to petition the court to make him sign the paperwork (prior to the incident happening), and my first call after I found out was to the kids' counselor.  They are also active in church youth group and have trusted support people around them.  That was paramount in making sure we had in place, because of the ways I've been villainized to them by their father, that they have neutral, trained people to walk with them in ways that I can't right now.

Well done!!! What a wise and supportive environment you have built for them. I hope you have the same for yourself!

How are things going?

[gfuertes]

I had a similar situation, and would like to affirm your guilt-free sense of relief, and offer you hope for the future!

My now-ex-husband went to prison for non-violent crimes, while our son was 10-12.  Like you, I was surprised that, although our son loved and missed his dad, and was upset about him being in prison, he thrived.  He quickly became more pleasant to be around.  People outside our family who'd found him prickly or difficult began to comment about how much they enjoyed his company.  He began excelling in school, making new friends, tried new activities, and found one he remains passionate about, at 18.  I'd expected the opposite.

When my ex was released, and we began co-parenting in separate homes (if you can call it that,) it was trying.  So, if your ex is exonerated, or if he receives a short sentence, brace yourself. 

The good news is that the period when my son and I could enjoy time together, and bond, with zero interruptions from his divisive, manipulative dad had a lasting, positive impact.  Not only has my son's and my relationship remained strong, but my son has been able to recognize for himself the difference between a healthy parent focused on his best interest, who tries to model healthy things for him, and a parent who may seem super fun and charming sometimes, but who uses and manipulates him, and models antisocial behavior.  You can't easily *tell* a child that, because you may push them into feeling defensive of their toxic parent, or bad about themselves because of their tie to that parent.  But it is a massive relief to see them figure it out for themselves, even though they grieve their old, idealized beliefs about that parent.

It just took many years for that to happen.  As you might expect, after prison my ex went to extremes to try to be the favorite parent, and convince our son that he (Dad) was a morally upstanding, falsely-accused hero/victim, and that *I* am the truly morally bankrupt person our son shouldn't trust.  Our son struggled with that.  But although he was sometimes pretty confused, he was never quite ready to reject the trust and bond with me he'd developed while his dad was gone.  And his grades dropped, and he resumed having trouble getting along with people.  But he struggled to get back into the light, and ultimately he succeeded.

Early last fall (son was 17,) my ex clearly felt he was losing control of our son, and got really pushy, demanding and threatening, trying to feel in control again.  By then, our son was able to see that for the abuse that it was, with no input from me.  He just wanted comfort and reassurance from me.  He refused further parenting time, and warned his dad that if he tried to take me to court about it, that he (son) would tell the judge very clearly how Dad had behaved, and why he wanted to end parenting time.  My ex let him go.

Is it possible that my ex will find some way to get our son under his influence again, when he's older?  Maybe.  This isn't easy or simple for the kids.  But I believe that once they experience the truth of their healthier parent's love for them, they will keep coming back to it.

I'm not necessarily saying I hope your kids reject their dad as solidly as my son has rejected his.  But I do hope they ultimately see enough truth to remain close to you, and to draw safe boundaries with their dad.  And I think it's very possible that they will.

[Penny Lane]

Hi findjoy!
I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation and I hope you and your kids are able to make the best of it. I know how hard this uncertainty/roller coaster can be! Your situation is the most roller coaster imaginable.

Here is my advice for what it is worth. First, give yourself some grace! Of course you are happy that the toxicity is out of your and your kids' lives, even temporarily. Not like you need to throw a party in front of the kids but I give my blessing for you to breathe a huge sigh of relief and happiness internally, every time your kids remind you of their own selves. Do not guilt yourself for that.


I know you don't want to alienate them from their dads, and that's a good instinct. But I think you can use this time to make them resilient. Resilient against his manipulation, against his bad behavior, what have you.

One book that has helped me a lot in this regard is Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Resilient Children While Avoiding High-Conflict Divorce by Bill Eddy. I found it so helpful I went out and read all his books about high conflict people.

Making them resilient does NOT mean telling them that their dad is wrong. Instead it looks like, starting slow by building up their critical thinking skills. Like, when my stepkids were young when we watched tv or movies if a character lied we would say, "is that person trustworthy? Would you believe that person the next time they tell you something important?" Or like if a character treats another character badly we would point it out and say "when I see someone talking about someone else like that, it makes me nervous to be around them because I think they'll talk about me like that." The possibilities are really endless.

If you know he's saying a specific thing about you, you can use this time to contradict his narrative. For example I know my husband's ex would tell the kids that he never paid for anything and didn't support them (when the opposite was true - he pays for way more than his share of everything). So I would always say things like "your dad works late every night you're not here, we are so lucky your dad is working so hard to take care of all of us." I mean obviously it's good to say nice things about your spouse but I definitely overdid it on the positivity in order to counteract her false narrative. I think it was effective because I connected it to something they could actually see (like their dad working or their dad buying school supplies or whatever). So it was her unfounded saying that dad does nothing for you, and then me (and other people, like grandparents) saying look at this specific thing you can see your dad doing for you.

Once you've established some trust, and this is definitely like a 201 or a 301 level skill, you can help them with what to say to him when he does things like asks about you or says mean things about you. A less extreme version of this: we would literally roleplay what to do with peer pressure to get them comfortable saying no.

And don't forget to enjoy the time with them! I really think this uninterrupted time will build a foundation for you guys that will be a lot harder for him to shake if/when he gets out. I'm so glad you get to experience this!

One last thought: Don't go out of your way to speak badly about him, but don't try to protect him by lying about his crimes (or, for that matter, any other actions). At some point they will have to contend with what kind of a person their dad is, and it will be easier for them if his worse nature hasn' been actively hidden from them.

[firepoetry]

Keep documenting everything!

My Tnex is not incarcerated, but he has had severe mental illness landing him repeatedly in psychiatric wards, not that it affected our case.

Criminal prosecution is a long situation. Usually people will plead guilty for a lesser charge if a prosecutor offers a plea deal with potential reduced time in jail, and potential parole / early release. A trial usually takes a lot longer to prepare and have, which is why people usually accept a plea deal.

If he accepts a plea deal, then you could go back to court once he is out of jail and use his criminal record as a change of circumstance, and show how good your kids are doing without him. That is the biggest thing courts focus on, how are the kids? You can talk about how open they are with you, how they are participating in your life better, and just overall doing great. Ask for supervised visitation due to guilty charges he accepted.

If he does not accept the plea deal, and he goes to trial and is found guilty, and then gets out before the kids are 18, you can still use his guilty conviction as a change of circumstance, and all the above. Ask that if visits resume, there is supervised visitation based on his criminal conviction.

If he does not accept the plea deal, he goes to trial, and he is found not guilty, then you have a slightly different situation on your hand, because he is going to want more time to make up for all the time he missed due to being wrongly accused. He can then use his innocence as fuel and play the victim card. You will still want to share evidence for how your kids are doing, and show the same evidence demonstrating that while they visited him your relationship / their emotional / physical / spiritual / life wasn't as open and interactive, and with is absence they thrived. Supervised visitation is less of an option in this circumstance.