Confusing Arguments and Discussions

[Peraspera]

Not sure how to title this, but I'm wondering if anyone can help me reach some insight with a frustrating and confusing dynamic. Or maybe just vent a bit.

I had a discussion recently with my wife -- she feels like we've been avoiding discussions about our issues. That isn't actually the focus of this post, and I wasn't about to fight her on that, but I feel like we talk constantly about them to the exclusion of anything else -- she said that this Sunday when last Sunday ended with her threatening to just leave and go to her parents house, after spending *the entire weekend* talking.

Anyways, one of the things she says frequently is that she feels like I was just a facade at the start of our relationship (up through... usually a few months ago, moving with whenever we're arguing) and that she doesn't think I was really a person and that she sees me as having become a different person. I certainly don't want to invalidate her feelings of hurt or just tell her to get over them, but I also (lightly, I think -- as much as I could) told her that when she talks about me the way she does I feel like she's saying she didn't like me.

Some of the other things she's said, essentially verbatim -- for reference:

• She doesn't remember why she liked me -- all of the reasons she thought she did were her deluding herself
• She regrets meeting me
• I've only made her life worse
• It's been exhausting ever since she's met me
• She can't remember any good parts of our relationship

It feels a bit silly that I had to explain that, while typing them out. She wasn't angry, which is honestly what I was expecting (though I'm still expecting she'll use it against me later -- she likes to talk about 'how much she's done' in comparison to me, even if that's 'please don't try to push me off the bed'). But she acted confused, and said I was misinterpreting what I was saying, and then to try to rebuild I guess? Gave me a lot of explanations about how she was 70% sure but not 90% sure (not what I was asking for; I would just like to not constantly be told that there's no good she sees in the relationship) and how she wouldn't have gotten married if she thought she could do better. That's how she put it, not just my interpretation; sure nobody should get married if they're thinking about how they could do better, but I don't really appreciate being the 'least bad'.

I guess I'm just very confused. On the surface she seemed to care about what I said and was trying to make me feel better. But for one it seems like she's forgotten all of the stuff she says when she was angry, or thinks it should be discounted and shouldn't make me feel bad. And she would bite my head off if I dare suggest she's misinterpreting something I said. Literally we recently had 20 minutes of her screaming at me in a parking lot after I dared try to 'excuse myself' (i.e. explain that I didn't intend anything) from comparing her, when what I did was observe that a lot of people I know can be really broadly grouped into the same industry as her -- which included some people she sees as below her.

[bloomie]

Peraspera - there is a lot here that you are hearing and trying to sort through. This does sound very confusing. I can imagine the slow erosion of good will and motivation to have a conversation when these kinds of painful revising and ruminations are laid out. I am so sorry and actually pretty amazed you are engaging for the amount of time you are and how often with all of this.

A couple of thoughts...

Asking yourself a very important question around 'talks':
Is this productive?

You do not have to engage in endless rumination about how good or bad your relationship is/is not or continue to cooperate and try to explain yourself when someone is screaming at you. You can remove yourself, set place and time limits on talks, make clear before going in that you will remove yourself if the conversation becomes disrespectful and then do it.

Have you looked through the Toolbox? There are so many practical insights to be found there. I return to it often.

I have found, with a partner who is a chaotic communicator who is easily activated and flooded and also claims to not remember very painful words said in anger that I have to establish firm limits and boundaries around 'talks'. For my own safety and peace of mind.

[1footouttadefog]

Ouch!!

That is a lot.  Lots of painful things there.

You are correct in not invalidating her feelings however she is being very hurtful. 

You might consider having her clarify these things and writing her actual words down with her present. 

The long talks that go nowhere or circle in on themselves and never prove useful in being a resolution or compromise etc are classic PD stuff.

It sounds like you have been very much devalued by her.  With PD people their feelings become facts.  Or their idea of what the facts are are based on how they feel. 

The toolbox here might prove useful.  You don't have to subject yourself to lengthy conversations that demean you this way especially if there is nothing to be gained for the mutual benefit of you both in the relationship.

So sorry to hear you are having such unpleasant times in your marriage.  Just be apse she says these things you don't have to internalize them as your identity.

Consider all the places where you are seem as a real person and valued.  You likely have normal interactions otherwise. 

If you take her words at face value, you are a negative in her life on many levels and your relationship is a net negative for her.  There might be some useful information there.  One could certainly use statements like that as a stepping stone toward clarity. 

Unless there is overt danger or risk of harm, you can take your time decoding if this is her real reality or a phase of some kind.  Be sore to practice self care so you come to this in strength and with as many healthy reserves as possible. 

Sorry, wishing you the best what ever that might be.

[square]

Oh, man, that's really difficult to handle.

Some of that sounds really familiar. The stuff about you being a facade at the start of the relationship, plus the "deluding herself" could be narcissistic in nature but it rings a bell for me as being paranoid thinking. Paranoid people seem to see others as not really real, like they are just empty demons whose only purpose is to harm (judge, manipulate, exploit, etc.) the paranoid person.

My husband once told me I had dedicated my life to destroying him. He recast our happy beginnings as me "setting him up" so I could then spend my life destroying him. For no reason. Like I'd choose to destroy my own happy life just for the pleasure of destroying his. He saw people as not real flesh and blood but forces of evil dispatched to destroy.

I don't know if I'm just projecting my own experience, but that's what I thought when I read your post. It feels like she's trying to work through cognitive dissonance, she can't remember the good feelings so she is trying to explain it with ideas like you being a facade and her deluding herself.

It sounds like she is discarding you.

If I were facing that again, I'd tell myself to stop taking the words seriously. I spent a lot of time and confusion trying to make the logic connect, but I really couldn't. We all have different perspectives, and that's fine, but I had to rationally conclude that he was not being rational, otherwise I'd go crazy myself. I'd remind myself that he was just having a feeling and expressing a feeling, and he was allowed his feelings but they weren't necessarily based on anything rational and that was fine. So he could have his feelings and I could have my own feelings and they didn't have to match and I didn't have to stay up nights trying to understand him (and he certainly didn't do the same for me and my feelings).