Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?

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142757

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Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« on: April 22, 2014, 03:17:29 PM »
We have some unique beliefs that affect how we approach loved ones w/personality disorders. But I've also found very little info covering the topic. And I find the elders in my cong non-helpful, judgmental or unwilling to truly understand what is going on. Just want to know if there are any JW's here and your experiences.

Baptized July 16, 1988 Hampton, VA
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whataboutbob

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 03:58:42 PM »
Not a JW but a very nice woman and her daughter come out to see me and (synchronicity here) came up to see me about an hour ago. They/you are very nice folks. :-) I'd love to hear how you deal with evil people, PDs, NPDs based upon your faith based view of the world?

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Finding My Voice

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 04:31:17 PM »
I'd love to hear how you deal with evil people, PDs, NPDs based upon your faith based view of the world?

Me too, I'm curious about what your "unique beliefs" are in this regard.

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Tungsten

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 05:34:22 PM »
Personally I feel that if you asked a fellow believer, "what would you do?" then technically they should not say, "well in your shoes, I would do such and such" becuase the decisions you make in your life are between you and God. After consideration of your spritual research and your medical research, what do you think is the right thing to do?

Religious ministers are not doctors or psychiatrists, they do their best to help you spiritually, but if they have never experienced a pd then they don't know how to comprehend it let alone deal with it. They are probably concerned about not giving you the wrong advice. They know that they would be accountable in the eyes of God for giving you bad advice, so are cautious. You wrote elsewhere that marriage is a commitment you take seriously. I imagine they take it seriously too and would be very cautious about making suggestions that sound like they are telling you to end your marriage. After all they know that they can't make that decision, only you can.

Plus I know what it's like to have a family memeber who is nice as pie to everyone on the outside and is mean as a rabid cat at home. Outsiders don't see what goes on behind closed doors, so you can't expect them to fully grasp the reality of the situation. People often tell me how nice my Mum is. Yes, she can be, at times, if you catch her in the right frame of mind. I imagine other people see the nice side of your wife, the side you saw before you got married and can't understand how she can be different. You know, though, even if other people can't quiet comprehend, you and God both know the reality of the situation.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 05:38:51 PM by Tungsten »

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whataboutbob

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 06:50:40 PM »
I think that those of us that are Christians really struggle with what to do with a PD and our experience with a PD. We want to forgive, turn the other cheek, or; whatever. Christ said to forgive a lot and then treat them like tax collectors if they come to our doors, which is a way of saying NO CONTACT. With Easter just behind us I don't get the crucifixion and certainly not the passion of Christ stuff. A loving father would never allow his child to be tortured for any reason. I just don't get that. There's a myth/metaphor there that I don't get. Also, Judas' betrayal is what PDs do. There is something there for us to understand about being meek and kind people but living in the material world.

Understanding evil and that evil does exist has been a hard lesson for me.

Here a conversation about evil people for us. Females will need to translate it into their own world view but I believe that this is a reality that we must look at.
http://www.shrink4men.com/

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 09:29:34 PM »
Not a JW but a very nice woman and her daughter come out to see me and (synchronicity here) came up to see me about an hour ago. They/you are very nice folks. :-) I'd love to hear how you deal with evil people, PDs, NPDs based upon your faith based view of the world?
That's the thing that kinda bugs me about my situation. I've always gone by the "kill 'em w/kindness" mantra. It almost always worked. And when it didn't, well, I didn't have to sleep w/them. I just let them go about their business. We don't have to be friends. I'll give you your space. I've never dealt w/a person like my uPPDw. You can't just ignore someone in your own home. And how you deal w/someone like this goes against how I've always behaved towards others. But it was like my own sanity was @ risk. This isn't the type of person who you can just work around to keep the peace. They are always looking to disturb the peace.
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 09:39:23 PM »


Me too, I'm curious about what your "unique beliefs" are in this regard.
I guess they aren't "unique". I think our perspective is slightly different. It's kind of like a poster somewhere else here posted about those living w/someone who has a PD are like people who've seen a flying saucer. The only ones who can really understand it are those who actually saw it. Describing it to others loses something in the translation, if you will. You may even get criticism & doubts from outsiders. I just want to get a perspective from someone who is in the same boat as I am religiously.

But one thing I think that a JW has to consider is divorce isn't an option when there is no adultery involved. Also, 1Pet 3:1 which mentions a spouse may be "won w/o a word through the conduct" of the other spouse. Those w/PPD are never "won over". Their suspicions & paranoia is perpetual.
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 09:55:35 PM »


Religious ministers are not doctors or psychiatrists, they do their best to help you spiritually, but if they have never experienced a pd then they don't know how to comprehend it let alone deal with it. They are probably concerned about not giving you the wrong advice. They know that they would be accountable in the eyes of God for giving you bad advice, so are cautious. You wrote elsewhere that marriage is a commitment you take seriously. I imagine they take it seriously too and would be very cautious about making suggestions that sound like they are telling you to end your marriage. After all they know that they can't make that decision, only you can.

I understand what you are saying. And I've told myself the same things. At the same time, Ive got one adviser who is constantly implying (if not outright accusing) that I am not applying Bible principles and that is the reason my marriage is failing. I've sat on the other side of the table in trying to counsel others myself. I know he is overstepping what he has been trained to do. I also am sure he thinks he is really helping and is not purposefully trying to put me down. But I just can't seem to get he or the other adviser to understand what is going on. They don't even want to consider mental illness as a factor. Or that it even matters.

When I bring up her past actions he dismisses it as nothing. That he knows it all cause he's been married 30+ and I've only been married 1. He keeps comparing my situation to things he has had to deal with in the past. His wife isn't disturbed.

I mentioned her jealousy & he goes back to a time earlier in his marriage when his wife got upset w/o provocation. I told him that is one incident. My wife claimed I was staring at a sister in the congregation all through our meeting. A sister w/no teeth. She said I was staring down the blouse of another sister who was sitting in front of us w/her back turned towards us. A sister sent, not just me, but about 50 of us an email & she got furious. Like we are going to cheat by her sending me messages to every one in her address book. She got mad when a coworker brought me an extra biscuit for breakfast. She got upset when a householder gave me a candy bar on my postal route. She got jealous of a coworker who was 60+ yrs old, chewed tobacco, has emphesyma (sp?) & is a lesbian. She went ballistic when another postal carrier called me to ask about the yard sales on my route. I could go on. All in one year being together. That's not getting jealous from time to time. That is a chronic case of paranoia.

But did that make him think there maybe more to this than just a new couple struggling to get used to each other?
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Adam West (Batman)
9/19/28 - 6/10/17

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Finding My Voice

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 11:05:57 PM »
I've never dealt w/a person like my uPPDw. You can't just ignore someone in your own home. And how you deal w/someone like this goes against how I've always behaved towards others. But it was like my own sanity was @ risk. This isn't the type of person who you can just work around to keep the peace. They are always looking to disturb the peace.

Yes, the rules/conventional wisdom for relationships get turned upside down when you're dealing with pwPDs.

I just want to get a perspective from someone who is in the same boat as I am religiously.

But one thing I think that a JW has to consider is divorce isn't an option when there is no adultery involved.

It may be hard to find other JWs who are married to a pwPD and know what the disorder is.  But that doesn't mean I and others here can't provide some useful feedback.  I try to follow Romans 14.  In other words, if you consider that it would be a sin for you to divorce your wife, I'm not going to encourage you to pursue divorce, or anything else that would go against your conscience.

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Also, 1Pet 3:1 which mentions a spouse may be "won w/o a word through the conduct" of the other spouse. Those w/PPD are never "won over". Their suspicions & paranoia is perpetual.

It says they may be won over, not that they have to be.  My mother had BPD; my parents were married for over 40 years and she certainly wasn't "won over" to either Christianity or complete trust in my dad.  She did grow to trust him more than in the beginning of their marriage, but she was still easily upset and panicked if he wasn't home exactly when he said he would be.

Have you considered seeing a professional counselor, someone with experience with PPD?  If you want counseling from another JW, is there some way you could find a JW who is also a therapist/psychologist?

Have you read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud?  It's written from a Christian perspective and gives a Biblical basis for setting boundaries.

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whataboutbob

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 11:18:17 PM »
I love the UFO comment about if someone hasn't seen it they don't get it. I also am finding that viewing the comments in the Bible WITHOUT ROSE COLORED GLASSES really helps us deal with reality. The Christians were being fed to the lions, crucified along miles of roads, and put to death even when the Catholics were running the show. So, the Christian message does speak to us about personality cults (wolves) pretending to wear sheep skins in the pasture.

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 09:14:34 AM »


It may be hard to find other JWs who are married to a pwPD and know what the disorder is.  But that doesn't mean I and others here can't provide some useful feedback.  I try to follow Romans 14.  In other words, if you consider that it would be a sin for you to divorce your wife, I'm not going to encourage you to pursue divorce, or anything else that would go against your conscience.
Didn't mean to imply others can't help. I've gotten lots of good insight from people & experiences here. And I have no idea if they believe in God or are atheists. It's kinda the sub forums where you have chosen,  unchosen, committed to making it work, divorcing etc. You could be dealing w/the same disorder, but the perspective is different from a spouse to a sibling to a parent to a child etc. There might not be any JW's here or any willing to "step out". I just want to talk to one of them.
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It says they may be won over, not that they have to be.  My mother had BPD; my parents were married for over 40 years and she certainly wasn't "won over" to either Christianity or complete trust in my dad.  She did grow to trust him more than in the beginning of their marriage, but she was still easily upset and panicked if he wasn't home exactly when he said he would be.

When I used that verse, I wasn't saying it was a guarantee. I referenced that scripture in showing that in general, there is hope a spouse can change if you do your part. Go the extra mile. W/PPD, there is no gradual breaking of the walls. Like I told someone else, there is no "winning". Only survival when it comes to her paranoia. I will never earn her trust. She'll just think she hasn't found the real story yet.

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Have you considered seeing a professional counselor, someone with experience with PPD?  If you want counseling from another JW, is there some way you could find a JW who is also a therapist/psychologist?

Have you read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud?  It's written from a Christian perspective and gives a Biblical basis for setting boundaries.
Yes, don't think so & no for the above questions. I think I could use a little counseling cause all the problems of the past year got me depressed. Twice I looked @ a bottle of my medicine & thought of swallowing the whole thing. So I haven't refilled my prescription since. Thought I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. But I am doing much better now that I am away from her. My relationship with her trumped all the other problems. Now that I know about PPD, it has eased up my anxiety considerably. Mostly, I have to deal w/my guilt, how to get on w/the next phase, and deal with this unnecessary desire for affirmation from brothers in the cong. But my work schedule doesn't allow for seeing a doc during the weekday.
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Adam West (Batman)
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Tungsten

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 10:02:47 AM »
I also am sure he thinks he is really helping and is not purposefully trying to put me down. But I just can't seem to get he or the other adviser to understand what is going on. They don't even want to consider mental illness as a factor. Or that it even matters.

When I bring up her past actions he dismisses it as nothing. That he knows it all cause he's been married 30+ and I've only been married 1. He keeps comparing my situation to things he has had to deal with in the past. His wife isn't disturbed.

I think you have identified the problem right there. You are dealing with someone who has no understanding of mental illness. Your issue here isn't so much a religious problem, but more of a lack of understanding of mental illness, which is hardly surprising as the general public are not educated about things such as personality disorders. People don't understand mental illness let alone how to deal with it. Sometimes people don't want to deal with mental illness because they feel out of their depth. People are imperfect and don't always understand each other. I just think he can't grasp what you are talking about.

You surely have more than 2 elders in your congregation? Maybe you should speak to someone else about it due to the fact that this one person just isn't getting his head round what you are trying to say.

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 02:31:26 PM »


I think you have identified the problem right there. You are dealing with someone who has no understanding of mental illness. Your issue here isn't so much a religious problem, but more of a lack of understanding of mental illness, which is hardly surprising as the general public are not educated about things such as personality disorders. People don't understand mental illness let alone how to deal with it. Sometimes people don't want to deal with mental illness because they feel out of their depth. People are imperfect and don't always understand each other. I just think he can't grasp what you are talking about.

You surely have more than 2 elders in your congregation? Maybe you should speak to someone else about it due to the fact that this one person just isn't getting his head round what you are trying to say.
There is one I bounce things off of. His father evidently had some kind of PD. He's sympathetic. He's going thru some drama himself though. The others...I really don't know what is going thru their minds right now. Haven't asked. Most they'll say is "Good to see you!" then shake someone else's hand. Since this weekend, I've basically made it my aim not to speak w/them about it anymore. Keeps me from being discouraged.
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Adam West (Batman)
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Tungsten

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 03:45:22 PM »
I'm glad that you've got someone you feel you can talk to. I tend to be drawn towards people who also have problems. I think they tend to be more sympathetic. One of my best friends suffers from depression and is quiet ill. She is a wonderful person, but I don't like to tell her too much about how I'm feeling because I don't want to add to the stress she already has in her life.

I don't know if I'm over-generalising, but men tend to be a bit stiff upper lip and not so good at handling emotional situations. They kind of tense up and don't know where to put themselves if problems come up. Men find emotional stuff a bit embarassing I suppose. Not all, just some.

The best support I get is from old ladies. I'm female so I suppose I am naturally drawn to other women to confide in, but older, retired women have time to talk and they have experience they can share and they tend to be sympathetic and supportive. My advice is if you are feeling down head for an old dear and have a chat with her.

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 08:46:57 AM »
I'm glad that you've got someone you feel you can talk to. I tend to be drawn towards people who also have problems. I think they tend to be more sympathetic. One of my best friends suffers from depression and is quiet ill. She is a wonderful person, but I don't like to tell her too much about how I'm feeling because I don't want to add to the stress she already has in her life.

I don't know if I'm over-generalising, but men tend to be a bit stiff upper lip and not so good at handling emotional situations. They kind of tense up and don't know where to put themselves if problems come up. Men find emotional stuff a bit embarassing I suppose. Not all, just some.

The best support I get is from old ladies. I'm female so I suppose I am naturally drawn to other women to confide in, but older, retired women have time to talk and they have experience they can share and they tend to be sympathetic and supportive. My advice is if you are feeling down head for an old dear and have a chat with her.
The other problem w/us men is that we tend to think all of you women are wacko anyway (lol). So when something strange comes up, we think that's just your gender. I would ask my married friends questions and they would just go "That ain't nothing! My wife......", and I'm like, "All women are like this? Why didn't you fools warn me?!?!" I would start looking @ other women & wonder what kind of bats do they have flying around in their attic. It took awhile before I became sure that "No, this woman ain't normal".

But I do have one person plus my brother willing to listen. Both are JW's. I just tend to like a broad range of perspectives to get a well-rounded view of things. I need people willing to tell me what I don't want to hear, points I hadn't thought of before, but still supportive.
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Adam West (Batman)
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Tungsten

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 04:03:32 PM »
I would ask my married friends questions and they would just go "That ain't nothing! My wife......",

I can sort of relate to that. When my sister and I try and explain to our friends about our parents then people just say to us: "but everyone is a bit embarassed by their parents. It's normal." But the stuff our parents do are not normal behaviour. It is very difficult to explain stuff like that to those who have never experienced, or lived with, a person suffering with mental health problems.

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gordianknot

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 05:19:46 PM »
I sincerely caution any JW who needs help in coping with a PD or even a life issue. It is very important that you understand that the elders of the congregation are not trained professionals. It is quite outside the bounds of medical ethics for a person to pose as a doctor who has not received training and graduated from medical school. Dealing with a loved one who had a PD is outside the expertise of a minster. Please make sure that you understand that your church and bible reading will be helpful for you during any time of trial, but the practicality of any medical condition is that it must be treated. Bible study is soul medicine and we all need that, but don't confuse soul medicine with body/mind medicine. In a lot of cases, both are needed.

Please make sure that you are making important life choices based on the diagnosis and guidelines of a trained practitioner.



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Tungsten

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 06:39:09 PM »
I kind of already said that, but not quiet so dramatically. If you look at their website the home page features a link to an article about depression and contains a footnote advising medical help. The advice given reads and I quote: "perhaps a suicide-prevention hotline or hospital emergency room. These are staffed by people who are trained to provide assistance....
WHAT YOU CAN DO TODAY: Seek out a reputable physician who treats mood disorders such as depression."

JWs are not against consulting trained medical professionals to get help with medical care and for help in dealing with mental illness.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 06:53:45 PM by Tungsten »

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Finding My Voice

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 10:08:45 PM »
Didn't mean to imply others can't help. I've gotten lots of good insight from people & experiences here. And I have no idea if they believe in God or are atheists. It's kinda the sub forums where you have chosen,  unchosen, committed to making it work, divorcing etc. You could be dealing w/the same disorder, but the perspective is different from a spouse to a sibling to a parent to a child etc. There might not be any JW's here or any willing to "step out". I just want to talk to one of them.

Ok.  That's understandable that you'd want to talk to other JWs in similar situations, just didn't want you to be too discouraged if there weren't any.

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When I used that verse, I wasn't saying it was a guarantee. I referenced that scripture in showing that in general, there is hope a spouse can change if you do your part. Go the extra mile. W/PPD, there is no gradual breaking of the walls. Like I told someone else, there is no "winning". Only survival when it comes to her paranoia. I will never earn her trust. She'll just think she hasn't found the real story yet.

I agree.  It's up to her to realize she needs help (possible though unlikely) and of course up to God as well.

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Yes, don't think so & no for the above questions. I think I could use a little counseling cause all the problems of the past year got me depressed. Twice I looked @ a bottle of my medicine & thought of swallowing the whole thing. So I haven't refilled my prescription since. Thought I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. But I am doing much better now that I am away from her. My relationship with her trumped all the other problems. Now that I know about PPD, it has eased up my anxiety considerably.

Yes, separation does help a great deal.  I'm glad you were able to find out about PPD and get away before you were tempted to follow through with the overdose.

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Mostly, I have to deal w/my guilt, how to get on w/the next phase, and deal with this unnecessary desire for affirmation from brothers in the cong. But my work schedule doesn't allow for seeing a doc during the weekday.

I know at least some Ts have evening appointments and some might even do weekends.  It's worth looking into, especially since your marriage has affected you so much.

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But I do have one person plus my brother willing to listen. Both are JW's. I just tend to like a broad range of perspectives to get a well-rounded view of things. I need people willing to tell me what I don't want to hear, points I hadn't thought of before, but still supportive.

 :like:

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142757

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Re: Any Jehovah's Witnesses here?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 08:55:52 AM »
I kind of already said that, but not quiet so dramatically. If you look at their website the home page features a link to an article about depression and contains a footnote advising medical help. The advice given reads and I quote: "perhaps a suicide-prevention hotline or hospital emergency room. These are staffed by people who are trained to provide assistance....
WHAT YOU CAN DO TODAY: Seek out a reputable physician who treats mood disorders such as depression."

JWs are not against consulting trained medical professionals to get help with medical care and for help in dealing with mental illness.

Thnx 4 pointing that out to newbie.
"Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Adam West (Batman)
9/19/28 - 6/10/17