[froggie]

Good stuff here, wish I had time to read it all...

God gave us a memory for a reason. My past (which I remember) informs my present and therefore I am thankful for the memories, especially the painful ones because they assist me attempting to insure the events are not repeated. So forgetting for me does not/should not coexist with forgiveness.

Forgiveness is almost exclusively for me when I am blessed to have experienced it. Others may be the benefactors of what I experience but it's me that receives the true reward.

But... I'll admit I have secretly, very much enjoyed the song; _uck you by Lily Allen.     

Kestrel, I "think" this can actually be a manifestation of forgiveness when we get to this place, the "eff you" place. Read Jesus' response to the Pharisees in Matthew 23:13-39.

[water]

Me too. I remember a nun telling us in religion class: Don't point a finger at others - only point it at yourself. I took it to mean that there could only be something wrong with me, and I had to overcome my "sin." What 8-year-old kid deserves that???

My mom and dad came from the same 'nun school', both fearful of nuns. So I was 9 - 12 and the dentist is drilling into my molars, I'm screaming, no anesthesia, right into the root of the nerve. My dad was sitting in the waiting room and I asked him, why didn't you stop the dentist while I was screaming, and he said: Two nuns walked in the room. As though that is a good reason for a kid to be treated like a test subject killed by pain. No one ever had my back. I was just a stupid kid. I'm in my 50's now and had both those teeth out a couple weeks ago, the pain of childhood goes on forever. First the dental neglect, then the pain, and finally I get to work on replacing those teeth as an older adult. Because, there was a nun. It's not the nun's fault, it's fear of the nuns. 

[dmass]

Actually forgiving to someone is not hard to give but is hard to forget. You can forgive anybody that abused, but don't ever forget what they've done to you.

[DealingWithIt]

Funny, but forgiveness is the sermon topic for a few weeks... 

I was talking with someone about forgiveness and forgetting and they led me to an interesting revelation.  You can forgive and "forget" a past hurt, but not one that keeps happening.  And the "forget" part is not completely forgetting, but, like a scar, you learn from it so you don't fall into that same hurt again.  But... you don't focus on the scar and relive what caused it day after day.

I know that with God, I can be forgiven and He'll forget my past sins.  I want the slate wiped clean.  But I know that being a broken human, I can't do that completely.

[blunk]

An interesting article on this subject.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/tech-support/201410/when-you-should-and-should-not-forgive

[CathyMathy]

Thanks for the article, blunk.

 

[Still Standing]

Wonderful thoughts here! So much that was helpful to me....

I like the idea of "letting go" mentioned here or even "moving on" - not reliving the painful situations over and over but being able to release them FOR US not for the other person.

And yes, if the same hurt keeps happening over and over, how can we heal? Scar tissue needs to form over the wound and if it is broken into again and again it will NEVER heal.

Related to this for me is the idea of TRUST. I can (possibly, someday) FORGIVE my NPDh, but I could never TRUST him again in the same way. Forgiving him would be a positive spiritual act FOR ME, trusting would be a stupid decision as it would insure that I got hurt again, and again, and again.

[OlderWiser]

My mother and other family members who have this illness do not think they have ever done wrong so they do not ask for foregiveness.  I wrote my mother a letter asking her to say she was wrong on something she did to me. Her response was she did not want to fight about it.  So if she is not asking for foregiveness then there is no decision for me to make about foregiveness. 

[DealingWithIt]

My mother and other family members who have this illness do not think they have ever done wrong so they do not ask for foregiveness. 

I believe forgiveness is something you give, whether they ask you for it or not.  Forgiveness is for you, to help you, not them.  They don't even have to know one way or the other, and it probably wouldn't change their life.  But it can drastically change your life.

[Still Standing]

I met with a priest from my church yesterday and shared how my NPDh says that I am self righteous and judgmental since I did not instantly FORGIVE him for his three year emotional affair while I was going through cancer treatment.

I think I have forgiven him - I don;t feel bitter about it at the moment, I do feel sad for our children who have grown up with and continue to have a very emotionally absent father - BUT that does not mean that I would ever TRUST him again.

The priest shared that trust is organic; it grows and it can also die - he gave the analogy of a plant. if the plant is truly dead, continuing to water it will NOT bring it back to life.

I do believe my marriage is dead. I forgive him to move on with my life in a positive direction, but I do NOT trust him and I do not believe he will change. NPDh states that he does not believe he has a problem with sex addiction (he does); that he is not abusive (he is) and he will not go into any therapy. To me, that is saying that he is accepting that the relationship is dead and he is not even willing to water it.

We would have gotten back together if I was willing to grant him cheap forgiveness, accept his denials, minimizations and outright lies, and continue taking the abuse. I am not willing to do that.

[divorcingnpd]

I found a series of thought provoking videos on forgiveness at:
http://www.ted.com/playlists/213/how_and_why_to_forgive

The first one called "In search of the man who broke my neck" was very powerful and moving for me.

[openskyblue]

For me? Forgiveness is a process.

I always do the forgive part.  For ME.

I do not have to forget.

I do not have to give the person opportunity to make amends.

I do not have to continue in relationship with the person -- it can end.  I don't have to go back for more.

But for my own mental health, spiritual health, emotional health -- I forgive.  Because NOT to forgive is continuing to carry around a burden I am better off without.  Like too much brain power, emotional energy devoted to time thinking about this person and their doings that I did not like.  What for?

I can choose to let it go and be free of it/them.

Katydid

Thank you! This was so helpful to me.  I think, in my addled heart, I believe that by forgiving, I will open myself up to more hurt and damage. Understanding that the forgiveness is as much for myself helps enormously. I know that carrying around anger and resentment is blocking my path towards feeling at peace and experiencing happiness. 

[1Brightnight]

In the Bible - can't remember which Gospel - Peter asks Jesus, "Lord, if my brother goes on sinning against me, how often should I forgive him? Seven times?"

You may recall that Jesus replied, "no, not seven times, but seventy times seven times."

I have a different interpretation of this, now that I'm separated for nearly a year from my u-NPD-OCPD-stbxh (forgive the long acronym).

This isn't supposed to be about welcoming abuse, saying that "oh, Jesus said I'm supposed to keep forgiving even those who repeatedly mistreat me."  It's more about realizing that if I keep putting up with it, I'm going to have to keep forgiving him. And why am I always going back for more in the first place????

Once I realized that I was being abused, I felt foolish and ashamed and terrified. It was almost easier to remain asleep to the problem. But I was not truly alive - I was existing. I was pleasing stbxh instead of seeking to please God. Then it became impossible to stay married to the man and keep any of my remaining sanity.

Jesus wasn't a doormat; I don't suppose he wants any of us to be either.

Any insights on this subject?

BTW - I am healing, very slowly, but I know I have a long way to go. I can't say that I've forgiven stbxh yet. Not in a hurry to, either. I get sucked in too easily.

Thanks for reading

It's for YOU! Forgiveness is for you, no need to carry these burdens on throughout your life.  It sets YOU free!