[Annegirl]

I like to see it like my therapist says, that everyone has an innate goodness, and she did all her abuse on me through her not being able to help herself ( in a sense)  even if it is impossible to see on the outside, this doesn't mean I should ever try to have anything but a medium chill relationship with my mother because I know I can't have anything more than that, but it helps me to "forgive" her and have compassion for her so I won't end up being a bitter prune. ( I hope )

[whataboutbob]

I've thought about you and your therapist's view Annegirl. George K. Simon is one of a few experienced therapists with this issue (most therapists just learn to avoid the PDs but don't understand it) and wrote in his book "In Sheep's Clothing" that we engage in denial (psychobabble) and magical thinking (dogma) to avoid realizing that they think differently than we do. Other's say that they know good and evil but they just don't care.  Simon uses the kind and specific term "covertly aggressive person".  I think that all of the PDs are all just a different shade of sociopathy. Stefen Verstappen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE  says that one of his best friends is a sociopath but his friend's kids say that they know that he is but he's a good sociopath... :-) His friend attributes it to his good upbringing by his parents. Managing a lack of conscience is possible.  The less sociopathic PDs can manage it too. I know two really close to me that do it great with lot's of therapy and self learning.  I love them both a lot. I think that our struggle being blessed/cursed with a conscience (Simon calls it "over conscientious") is not to think that they think like us and are just lost. They know exactly where they are and have the same choices as we do. Martha Stout and George K. Simon are two must read books for all of us. George is a kind fatherly voice and Martha is just full on truthful and blunt. Good luck to you Anne.

[Annegirl]

Thank you for that whataboutbob  I agree with what you say, and even when they do have choices and choose the painful way, for themselves and for us.
I know I will never  trust my mother, and I know she won't love me back, but I TRY and choose to love her for my own sake, and for my family's sake because I hated her for so long and I became such a bitch.
I will also look up those names, thank you for those.
This is just personally the way I reacted and what I 'think' helps me, everyone will have their own ways I'm sure which help them.

[nomoretears]

I continue to trust in my faith in God and believe that He is walking with me through this journey, though I struggle. Today, my stbxunpdh had his beloved suv repossessed.
He texting me that he had been ignoring the phone calls, because he didn't know what to say... and that he didn't realize I wasn't making payments anymore...
 
signing the separation agreement stated things fairly clearly... and I have been paying the house, the utilities and everything else... and he overdrew the account 2x before I moved my money out of there... shouldn't have been a surprise.

Anyway... he told me that God is in control... and he isn't angry. He has spent the entire evening out on our hammock in the backyard.... not talking to anyone (my s for a short while) but busy texting on the phone that he also doesn't pay for... so how long does he think that will go on?  He is convinced he is following God, but is totally delusional.
I don't quite know how to interpret his behavior other than to look to Daniel... where it references that the jewish had a veil over their eyes... and until the Gentiles have had their certain amount of time it will remain, but the day will come when God will lift the veil and all of Israel will be saved...
maybe he has a veil over his eyes for now... forgive him Lord, for he knows not what he does!
But...
I cannot continue on this path of destruction that he is walking... I must turn from it and I trust that the Lord is my lamp to light my path and keep me and my s safe.

[whataboutbob]

Annegirl: I liked your comment on "hate" for your PD mother. I was watching a TV talk show last night and the host said the old cliché; I hate such and such. I used to say it too. But, when we have been with and then realize just how harmful some people can be I have also experienced real "hate". I wouldn't use a comment about it casually ever again. I've only hated one person in my life. I don't like it at all. I also like the comment below your post about a loving and protecting God. Let God take care of the vengeance and justice. It's God's job. Also; finding the higher calling and power; continuing to search for my next purpose in life (hope) - is a great healing. What I do is hold the messenger sycophant sent by the PD to do a "double" and abuse me again accountable. The PDs not in recovery will do us forever but the sycophants will stop every time. That is when I began feeling safe again. I don't even try to explain it to them anymore. I just say that I'm innocent and they (the puppets) will pay pay pay; go away. It works every time.

Even if it comes to a Gandhi/Martin Luther King/Thoreau full on civil disobedience and non violent protest I will do it. Guess what? Even the authorities stopped. The PDs, not in recovery, can only project their mask for a while. Then all good folks come together and then have a safe little BBQ together :-).

[Spring Butterfly]

That's a really good point about hate and I never realized how much aversion I have toward the word. It has stench a strong meaning to me I never use it casually but never really thought much about why it feels like such a strong word to me.

[whataboutbob]

SpringBeeDee; I like your expression of full on experience of all of the emotional spectrum. Hate I hate but; the PDs have taught us the full spectrum. The reframe is that we gain the ability to see the PD and stand our ground the tell of psychopaths and their sycophants to "save (George K. Simon quoted this about an old cop that was being manipulated by a psychopath) that bullshit for intelligent people". Now we are free. :-)

[bluejeans63]

Well MaggieMayCat, that is the best piece of work I have seen on this subject. I wish I could share it with so many people. I never recognized the comparison and the relevance of Scripture to phycology. The "lovers of selves " section of scripture is so clear on such a subject. As of late I have often thought of my W appearing to me as a Pharisee and how Jesus certainly had His battals with them  and how much scripture shows how Jesus was not having a lot of hope in changing their attidtudes.

Thanks MaggieMayCat for sharing that with me.