Any Catholics?

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omui

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Any Catholics?
« on: November 17, 2014, 02:45:59 PM »
If you are, then you understand how it adds to the stress of decision-making.

I attend the EF (Latin).  I am a convert of five years now.

In the Church, you can divorce civilly, but you're still married (I know that sounds strange).  There I the annulment option.  But after 34 years, three kids.  Ouch.

I could live alone and not divorce.  But that would bring more financial strain.  I was a stay-at-home-mom for 20 some years.  I have a little part-time job now.  But I couldn't survive on it.

I have a degree in English and taught high school a very long time ago; and only for a couple of years.

I keep asking God - what do you want me to do?  What is Your Will?  Do you want me to suffer?  If You do - I will.  But if this cup can be passed from me ...

I'm so depressed.

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bruceli

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 02:53:30 PM »
If you are, then you understand how it adds to the stress of decision-making.

I attend the EF (Latin).  I am a convert of five years now.

In the Church, you can divorce civilly, but you're still married (I know that sounds strange).  There I the annulment option.  But after 34 years, three kids.  Ouch.

I could live alone and not divorce.  But that would bring more financial strain.  I was a stay-at-home-mom for 20 some years.  I have a little part-time job now.  But I couldn't survive on it.

I have a degree in English and taught high school a very long time ago; and only for a couple of years.

I keep asking God - what do you want me to do?  What is Your Will?  Do you want me to suffer?  If You do - I will.  But if this cup can be passed from me ...

I'm so depressed.

Had a friend get one after 20 years but had to go through all kinds of stuff with the church to prove her ex had a mental illness ( PD ).
One will never fulfill their destiny or truly be free, until they can let go of the illusion of control.

Fair doesn't mean equal and best doesn’t mean good.

They could see me walk on water, and they would say it is because I can not swim.

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2014, 03:23:50 PM »
Yes, because counselor information is confidential.

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 03:27:32 PM »
Plus, I think, what a horrible example I would be to my adult children.  What a hypocrite I would be in their eyes, not sticking it out. 

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RiverRat

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 04:59:06 PM »
I'm a convert, too and having received an annulment from marriage to uNPDxh I can tell you that infidelity alone will do it for you.

I doubt your children will see you as a hypocrite. 

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 05:04:53 PM »
RR, it's sort of complicated.  He committed adultery BEFORE the sacramental marriage took place.  However, he has not stopped with the pornography.  He's in and out of counseling for it.  But how would I prove?  And would that be grounds?

I had many reservations about the marriage.  We were confirmed, but I could not bring myself to marry him in the Church until six months later.  We did, indeed, live together as "brother and sister" during those months.

I'd decided to just go through with it.  Was just tired of sitting on the fence.

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RiverRat

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 05:28:37 PM »
http://www.stmarys-waco.org/documents/Grounds%20for%20Marriage%20Annulment%20in%20the%20Catholic%20Church.pdf

Above is a link to what constitutes an Annulment. Sexual acts not related to procreation was my grounds. I also felt at the time of marriage I really did not know the person I married and felt I had made a judgement in error.  There was lots of paperwork involved and very low response and I mean maybe 1 person responded to the inquiry.

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 05:35:12 PM »
Hmm, I could point to a couple.  But, again, I would need proof.

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RiverRat

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 06:32:15 PM »
No proof was required with mine and none was given. They just took my word...and my money. 

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Still Standing

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 06:56:08 PM »
http://www.stmarys-waco.org/documents/Grounds%20for%20Marriage%20Annulment%20in%20the%20Catholic%20Church.pdf

Above is a link to what constitutes an Annulment. Sexual acts not related to procreation was my grounds. I also felt at the time of marriage I really did not know the person I married and felt I had made a judgement in error.  There was lots of paperwork involved and very low response and I mean maybe 1 person responded to the inquiry.

I had been reading about divorce and annulment for Catholics since our separation. I am not sure if I actually want to get divorced, or just live separately. If we do get a civil divorce, I would still be married in the eyes of the Catholic church and could not re-marry in the church. As of this moment I am not interested in dating/re-marriage so the hassle of getting an annulment would not be worth it at this point.

However, I had looked into the options and since my NPDh is a non-Christian annulment is somewhat easier. Apparently they examine closely the period BEFORE your marriage to see if the marriage was valid at the time of its taking place.

I do understand how difficult it is to contemplate leaving an unhappy or even abusive marriage given Catholic belief structure. I am planning to go and talk to my priest about the situation and am also praying for more clarity.

Wishing you the best.

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RiverRat

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 07:36:00 PM »
I'm not trying to be flip about this because I was the one who took our vows seriously.  I'd been engaged before and did not go through with it.  I really truly believed that I had found a husband, a life partner, & the future father of my children.  What I did not know was I was the only person that day in that church who thought that way.  No one and I mean no one gave us more than 6 months.  He raged on the honeymoon, called it short, and screamed "divorce" all the way home. (Geesh, I was threatened with divorce every other day for over 2 years.)
Years later a friend said the following, "What God hath joined together let not Man put asunder" followed by...if God did join you two then no Man put it asunder, God being God and all.  Our second chance at a life together proved to me that God had nothing to do with us getting married.

Sorry for the rant.  I'm really mad at myself right now. 

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 08:17:03 PM »
No apologies needed. I'm angry at myself, too. What was I thinking?

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Still Standing

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 10:22:58 PM »
I was threatened with divorce for most of our 23 year marriage - any time I stood up to him, or didn't do things the way he wanted, he would tell me "I'm done!" "I just can't deal with this anymore!" or some variation on that theme.

Not to be flip either, but I have posted before that if I had a nickel for every time he told me "I'm done!" I could take a cruise around the world - several times!

of course, once I asked HIM to move out, he was "blindsided" and now claims "of course I never meant it when I threatened you with divorce!"

 :yeahthat:

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OpenHeart

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 02:29:01 AM »
Plus, I think, what a horrible example I would be to my adult children.  What a hypocrite I would be in their eyes, not sticking it out.

I'm a convert, too.  I've talked to more than one priest about my situation and I was told each time that the Church does NOT expect me to stay in an abusive marriage (emotional abuse counts).  Other Catholic women I have talked with who have been through divorce also say that they got plenty of support from their parish.  Have you checked if there is a separated/divorced group at your church?  Mine has one, though I haven't checked it out yet (haha, would be a giveaway as to my plans since I haven't served H yet with papers). 

I thought I was setting a good example for my kids.  Now, after 40+ years of marriage, our kids won't even speak to us.  PDH bragged on the day he was dxd with NPD that our daughter was "a chip off the old block, she learned at the feet of the master".  It is all a long, long story but I wish to God that I had left when the kids were little and never looked back.  It sickens me to think how he manipulated our kids as and taught them how to manipulate, avoid responsibility, play the blame game, etc. 
I'm always disappointed when a liar's pants don't actually catch on fire.

WITCH - Woman In Total Control of Herself
BITCH - BABE In Total Control of Herself

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MaryGrace

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 04:01:21 AM »
If you're marriage is declared null by the church that means there was never a valid marriage. There is nothing hypocritical about a Catholic not staying in an invalid marriage. The money is to pay for the process, a marriage investigation takes resources but no one is denied the process if it is a financial hardship to pay. Have you talked with a trusted priest? From the bits of information you have given its sounds like the is a reasonable possibility the marriage is invalid. I understand being part of a particularly traditional parish makes this an even harder decision. God's love and mercy is infinite, do not be afraid. There is a place for redemptive suffering in God's plan but not needless suffering. You have my prayers.
My mom has paranoid pd. My dad is in my corner and never sides with her even though they are still married. Dad & I have a great relationship -please realize that. Thank you. :)

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2014, 05:52:08 PM »
MG, thank you.

Redemptive suffering, but not needless suffering.  I'm going to try and repeat that to myself throughout the day.

It is particularly difficult coming from a more traditional rite. 

People think I'm crazy; that I'm allowing my religion to dictate my decisions. 

I keep asking God what he wants from me.  What is permissible in my case?  Do You want me to suffer? 

In the meantime, husband is "all in," again.  The push-pull thing. 

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Still Standing

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2014, 01:11:02 AM »
My church does have a divorce support group. I went for a bit but it was too early in my separation and I was too emotionally raw. I would try again when I am further along. I did get some very helpful books about being divorced and Catholic. One book in particular focused on spiritual healing.

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omui

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2014, 02:13:09 AM »
I'm not even separated - yet.

I did talk to my priest today.  He told me I don't have to stay in this living situation.  He didn't really see a need for divorce because, he said, he didn't think I probably would ever want to remarry.  I'm 53.  And, he's probably right.  I've been married 33 years.  Long enough.

Anyway, he told me that there were actually a lot of the younger couples in the parish going through difficult marriages as well.  But that they stay together for the children's sake. Which I personally thing is noble.  If my children were still young, I would try my best to tough through it.

My priest will be talking with PD soon.  PD will not like what he is going to hear, i.e., that I'm just done.

I have to say, I can't help feeling bad for him.  He tries; then slides; then tries again.  It's exhausting for me.  It must be exhausting for him, too.

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OlderWiser

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2014, 10:02:40 PM »
The church is a wonderful thing.  You can participated even though you are not taking communion.  You can find someone to be with without a marriage.  I feel great love in the church and the Latin mass.  I know you are welcome

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Still Standing

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Re: Any Catholics?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2014, 10:41:16 PM »
I am meeting with my priest tomorrow about the situation.

I had proposed to NPDh that we remain living separately, but remain married for the sake of the children and his family (my family would be fine with us splitting as they do not like his behavior to the kids and I AT ALL!)

NPDh's response was "what's in that for me?"

I don;t want to feel guilty any longer about not being able to "fix" our marriage and about refusing to live with a sex addict who won't admit he has a problem...and is emotionally abusive as well.

I do not believe the Church wants me to do that, either.