Experience with Spiritual Warfare?

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Scarlett O

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Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« on: March 15, 2015, 05:23:34 PM »
In dealing with my uPD exh, several friends have pointed out that I am really dealing with spiritual warfare. He has alienated me from one of my children and she is NOT acting like the child I raised. I know the divorce was traumatic for her, but it is as if she is under an influence that is not of this world when she is with me. I know I am dealing with PA and PAS, but I think there is more. Has anyone dealt with this subject in their personal lives? Is there a way through this mess? I struggle with the fact that PDs are unrepentant individuals. I know everyone will not turn away from their sin, but it is as if they CAN'T or won't, no matter what; as if they are under a "spell". They are unforgiving, and therefore will be denied forgiveness on the day of judgement. My child is showing many characteristics of her father.  I am sad for my child, she was not always like this. She was a delightful child, and her anger is directed towards me and her older sister now. Does anyone know of any resources where I can get more information about spiritual warfare? Or your experiences, successes, etc.?

Thank you!

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MaryGrace

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Re: Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 08:27:19 PM »
I don't presume to sit in judgement of anyone's soul. There is a difference between can not and will not -a big difference in the eyes of God. I would hesitate to think your daughter is under demonic oppression considering her father has a mental illness that has caused chaos in all of your lives. When I lived at home with my pd mother I became a very angry, nasty individual. Even when I am around today more than twenty years since I've moved out her she brings out the worst in me and I pray constantly to suppress the combative dynamic between us. I too struggle with what will become of my mother after she passes away -I pray for her and leave it in God's hands. If she is truly incapable of recognizing her need for repentance God will judge her according to her ability. A just God does not condemn someone for something that is truly beyond their control. He only knows what's in her heart -I do not.
Does you daughter have access to counseling to help her work through her anger and behavior issues. Since it was not her choice to have the father she did I would do all in power to help her work through what has been thrust upon her -with as much compassion and understanding as I could muster. If you truly believe their is evil influence at work consult a trusted religious adviser -pastor, priest ect. Be careful not to blame emotional and psychological trauma on demonic influence. It is no small thing to grow up with a pd parent -and the effects are long lasting. I was very mean, very nasty as a teenager -because of the immense emotional pain I carried inside me. It was not satan I assure you. I heard the exact words "You are not the daughter I raised." You don't often get wonderful, obedient children from abusive, chaotic enviroments -I was the daughter they raised. If I had grown up in a peaceful, loving family I'm sure I would have behaved quite differently. She may be angry at you because she feels you did not do enough to protect her, or your just an easy target for the pain she carries. If she is getting involved in new age or occult practices that is something all together different.
My mom has paranoid pd. My dad is in my corner and never sides with her even though they are still married. Dad & I have a great relationship -please realize that. Thank you. :)

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gary

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Re: Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 11:38:00 PM »
Hi Scarlett O

  Try to understand I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm not in the business to do that especially on topics like religion,spirituality, Evil and Gods.

I just want to state my opinions as you have stated yours.

This will probably be going along with your title but mine is, Spirituality vs Science and I believe both can hang out together and get along just fine.

 I myself like to save Evil and the intervention of Gods to the very large things and I'll try and explain why.

I do believe in Evil and Gods and as you asked I do have actually experience in both but will save those stories and in fact have told those before here.

My hesitance in attributing Gods and the Devil (evil) to personality disorders is that it can lead to not taking any personal responsibility on both ends...them and us. Because if it's Evil or a God then both of those are so powerful that we can throw our hands up and say, "I'll leave it in Gods hands or that if it's the Devil then it's so powerful that I can't do anything about it.

The science is that a personality disorder is in a sense created onto that person by others treatment of them from a very young age and not something that later on an evil presence just zapped them with....that they were created.

If so then in that sense: 
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I struggle with the fact that PDs are unrepentant individuals.
...I would ask for what ?

To me it was not a choice to become one but something that was done to them and those are the ones who should be worried about a judgment day.

Now ( just in my opinion) once and if a person with a personality disorder realizes that they infact have one and by having one does hurt others around them...Then the personal responsibility shifts more onto them if they do not seek help. That before they knew ..the damage they do cause on others was without pure intent......

Luke 23:34...."Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."...to a point ;)

The same with us. Once we realise we are and our children are being subjected to the abusive behavior of anyone PD or not and does not intervene themselves to remove themselves has like them accepted personal responsibility for the outcomes.

I myself have no problem giving us and them a few coupons until it's known by both of us that a Personality Disorder does in fact exist and is causing harm .....But then after that and no action is taken by either party then the coupons are no longer valid.

just how I see it ;)

« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 12:00:48 AM by gary »
" A bird sitting on a tree is never afraid of the branch breaking, because its trust is not on the branch but on its own wings.

Believe in yourself ".


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Scarlett O

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Re: Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 04:46:33 PM »
I do not think my daughter has a PD, but I suspect her father does. We are divorced and he has alienated her from me, severely. We are in court, with counselors, parent facilitators, reunification counselors, psychologists and social workers. UGH! HE is an unrepentant individual. He is very passive aggressive and has admitted things he has done "on purpose"--however, he is never sorry--not even when we were married. He does not forgive when others apologize either. If I had to guess, I would say he is a covert narcissist. Although it was stressful before the divorce for the kids (it was awful for me!), he never raged or acted out of control in front of them. He was actually decent until he got remarried. My daughter is living with him, thanks to stepmom and the geniuses who are supposed to deal with Parental Alienation and actually know something about it. Our other kids live with me.

I guess I don't mean spiritual warfare as in demonic possession, etc. It is just this pervasive spirit of evil and meanness that intrudes on the whole situation.

I know that my ex knows what he does is wrong, he just doesn't care. I really struggle having any kind of feelings for these individuals. They are unrepentant in that their actions are justified in their own minds, because they make the rules. However, my ex claims to be a Christian and knows what scripture says. There is just no "fruit of the spirit". For example--he knows lying is wrong, yet he lies to me. He comes off as a victim and it frankly makes me sick. I am sorry he was raised that way, but he is miserable and he is an adult. At what point is someone accountable? He is intelligent, it is not like he does not have the mental capacity to understand right from wrong. I get that it is a mental illness, but why does that "let him off the hook" so to speak for his actions. As much as I struggle with this, I want his children to have empathy for him. It just angers me that he continues to abuse and is never held accountable. I don't read one post on this site, or other sites, that are positive with regards to individuals with PDs. It is as if there is no hope for them. While I understand that this is a safe place to vent, there just doesn't seem to be any solution to living with these folks and finding peace. The essence of the "mental illness" is to disrupt and abuse. Therefore, I wonder "is it mental illness, or just an evil person"?




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Latchkey

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Re: Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 01:21:25 AM »
I don't think we can actually say what the essence of Personality Disorders are. Many of of us here come from families with PDs and have direct relatives that have PDs. Some of us have children we love with PDs. A few here have PDs themselves and are struggling to cope with a partner or parent that has a PD as well.

There is a lot more to PDs than a dichotomy of good and evil. This is what makes this place safe-- many posters here are struggling to understand just as much when their loved one does something good for them or their family in light of all the bad things that go on.  Many people with PDs head up large charitable organizations, run non profit organizations, are active in helping their congregations, and truly like helping people.... A part of this illness for many is an incredible feeling of remorse and emptiness that is hard to comprehend and most of the pain is only shown to those who are close to them.

I realize you are dealing with a horrible situation but I don't think it's wise to overlook the truly good or even just the plain ol everyday things that people with PDs do as well that make them human.
Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living.
-Mother Jones
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There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.
-Maya Angelou
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When we have the courage to do what we need to do, we unleash mighty forces that come to our aid.

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Scarlett O

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Re: Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 02:25:25 AM »
Latchkey,

I am honestly not trying to overlook good that is done. However, truly good things can be done with wrong motives. And while people can judge behaviors, only God knows what is on the heart. But the words we say and the things we do are usually an outpouring of what is in our heart.

I did not grow up in a family with PDs. Although my childhood was not perfect, it was functional. When I read some of the stories people tell, it breaks my heart for them. The more I learn about this topic, the more my eyes have been opened to the truly bad treatment that some people endure in their relationships. I guess I know about the outside behaviors of the PD person, but not really what they go through daily--internally. I wanted to help my ex, I wanted him to be honest with me, but I couldn't continue to live in the same house with him anymore. Yet it is always my fault. The PDs can "snow" people and make them believe they are a victim. The sense of entitlement and lack of empathy are traits I have a hard time dealing with. Probably because I never had a person close to me with a PD until my exhusband. And for years, I never considered him mentally ill. And after I suspected he had a PD, I still didn't really think of him as not being in control over it. I pray my daughter does not have a PD, but some of her behavior is so different from when she was a child, that I don't know--she is having a psych eval next week, though.

Sometimes calling it a mental illness really sounds like an excuse for abusive behavior, to me. But maybe I need to learn more. And as bad as my situation is, my heart goes out to many of the people whose stories I have read. And the courage they have to care for and stay with a PD.

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Latchkey

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Re: Experience with Spiritual Warfare?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 06:03:28 PM »
Scarlett O,

Unfortunately I have had the experience from my second marriage of being a step mom to 2 kids that probably will grow up to have PDs diagnosed. It's heartbreaking and because of this I spent a lot of time on another forum with other parents who were struggling in many cases just to keep their children alive or from harming others or desperately searching for treatments. Some kids did have success so I know that it is possible to treat people with PDs. Still, it's not easy and I don't want to belabor the point and so I think I get where you are coming from and
believe me, you are not the first person to ponder the connection between PD behavior and evil on this forum. Here are some more recent posts that I've seen that are talking about it that might be interesting to you.

Have you seen the book People of the Lie?
http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=27313.0

As well as one here on the Evil eye.
http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=33227.0

This is on the Dark Triad (something that I'm interested in and have posted as well about but this thread is more recent)
http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=37014.0

Anyway, hope these lead you closer to some understanding.

Latchkey


Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living.
-Mother Jones
-
There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.
-Maya Angelou
-
When we have the courage to do what we need to do, we unleash mighty forces that come to our aid.