I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"

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AnneH

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I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« on: May 05, 2015, 01:21:10 PM »
Hi,

To make a long story short, I've been NC with an uHPD/NPD sister for 4 years. I live overseas and have an en brother and en father who usually ignore the issue. However they see PDsis regularly and she is able to influence them. Before I had my daughter last year, I went to see my dad twice a year. He always said he was too old (approaching 80) to come visit me. During my visits to dad, HPD sis would always come for the weekend to make an epic histrionic scene in front of her kids to try to get me to resume contact (always failed; I don't need her harassment in my life). I recently visited dad with my husband and child; we rented a car with a carseat as a getaway vehicle. We intentionally made our visit short to avoid the weekends (PDsis lives several hours away and has an admirable career I always hear too much about). Of course, when we pulled up to dad's driveway after a 24 hour trip, PDsis' car was already there (endad had said nothing about her coming, of course). So we left, got a hotel room, and I informed dad that I would not be coinciding with sis because I was not having her making a scene in front of my daughter. (He said how "shocking" and "reprehensible" my behavior was, turning down this wonderful opportunity to reconcile). I did ask if we could still come when PDsis had left and he said we could, so we did. We sent what seemed like several nice days with endad, even going to his new partner's house for dinner (everyone acted as if nothing had happened). On our last night there, however, he gave us a very "emotional," victim-playing letter from HPDsis with a bunch of examples of her work to emphasize how wonderful she is (I must note that all those documents had been on prominent display on the coffee table all week, and we chose to ignore them), and said he, his partner, HPDsis and her son were ALL coming to my country to see me on a specific date, the tickets were bought.   He demanded a reaction then and there, and I let him know none would be forthcoming. He said that poor HPDsis was afraid to fly (no problem for business trips, of course) and that she would even go so far as to come knock on my door...he couldn't stop the poor thing from trying! And he wanted to come one last time to my country and spend time with me. The day before, he had given me a very generous check to help with my travel expenses. Needless to say I left the check in the guestroom and left his house without giving him a reaction. Of course, he then phoned me at my home (a very rare occurrence) and I told him by email I was away for the week. I also let him know I would not be supplying any reaction to the trip to see me but would be happy to discuss anything else. I then called him this week and it was as if NOTHING was amiss! NOTHING! He was very friendly and hoped we had enjoyed our trip and wanted to know what we thought of his new partner. Likely he is giving me the "opportunity" to ask about their travel plans, he gave me their arrival date but conveniently "forgot" to tell me when they are leaving... I assume my relationship with him and en brother will be over when I don't make plans to see everyone during their impromptu trip (we are lucky enough to have a summer home they know nothing about and we will be going there the week they are over here, they will NOT be able to locate us). I just assume HPDsis will NEVER give up trying to harass me. She is trying to encourage her son (now in high school) to study abroad where I live, I assume she has made him learn the local language and she will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be looking for new ways to get to me. I will have to warn my daughter about Internet communications with that side of the family when she gets older. Anyone have any insight or similar experiences? Any forecasts as to what might happen next?? They are going to be furious to have made a very expensive trip for NOTHING...I also wonder about my dad's partner and what he told her...we had dinner at her house, the reservations had been made and she said NOTHING about coming to see me. Perhaps he told her it was a nice surprise to make us happy? She's going to be seriously weirded out on the plane for 12+hours each way with enSIS...Thanks for reading this volume.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 01:35:48 PM by AnneH »

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VividImagination

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2015, 03:22:35 PM »
There's really nothing else to do or be said...you seem to be handling it very well. You said plainly that you wouldn't be entertaining your sister. If she shows up at your home, that is her choice, but she has been warned through your father. Your family is attempting to manipulate you through emotional blackmail and you are not allowing it.

I don't know what trespassing laws are like in your country, but you might want to look into them. My neighbors and I watch each other's houses while we are out of town. I would have a neighbor immediately phone the police if people show up at your house while you are gone.

The vacation home is a brilliant idea, and if your father's partner isn't already aware of your sister's issues, she certainly will be after going through international travel with her.
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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sandpiper

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 09:46:31 PM »
Well, you can see where your sister learned her lack of boundaries, what a set.
If any of them show up on your door step uninvited they deserve what they get - nothing.
Good on you for making plans not to be there.
If your father wants to plan a holiday that revolves around violating your boundaries and creating drama, that's his business, but it's no reason for you to play along.
Good on you for finding a way to remove yourself from that.
Just make sure you leave a message on your mobile phone saying that you are away on holidays & you will return any messages on Date X.
Just be warned that they may try other means of contacting you: I once had a situation where I was being stalked by a cousin to attend a family funeral that I particularly wanted to avoid, and he found the number of one of my work colleagues and started harassing her on the hour every hour to tell him where I was. She handled it really well but OMG, boundaries!

I think you've done the right thing by letting them go ahead with their plans - far better that you should know what they are up to than to have them turn up out of the blue.
Just be warned that they may have plans to turn up and wail hysterically outside your empty house when your neighbours are around, just for the satisfaction of trying to make you look really bad.
It's been done before, so just formulate a plan for how to counter that.
I'd stick one of those really big, obvious security cameras with the blinking red lights on your front porch. We stuck one of those up out front, on the advice of the police, to deal with a PD neighbour. Overnight she miraculously was cured of the worst of her antisocial behaviours. Funny how the thought of seeing themselves on film at youtube or in the law-courts helps them to modify their behaviour.
 ;)

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AnneH

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 06:24:13 AM »
Hi everyone, thanks for your replies. FOO unfortunately have my street address but not my cellphone number and they don’t know where I work: not interested enough in my (Master-level) profession to even ask. Yes, they all have doctorates and I don’t; how sad... (I’ve been told it’s a “job, not a career,” I “don’t do any good in the world so I need to volunteer to make up for that” and that I just “sit and ___(fill in the blank for my professional activity); that sounds boring.” ) If they actually listened (doubt it) they could figure out where I work through a websearch, but I have also changed my first name, which they also don’t know (and at work, they don’t know my old first name). In the worst case scenario, they will come to reception, and whatever happens, they won’t get past there...yes, they could lie in wait outside but at least my daughter won’t be there.
I’m considering asking the receptionist to turn them away if they should show up; any ideas on how to do that without getting into a long explanation about my name, etc?
They will, however, come to my house, but I’m lucky enough to have a 2-meter+ iron fence with a gate around my house and garden (that’s what houses look like here) so they literally can’t “knock on my door”; they can try to ring the doorbell (we won’t be there) or leave a phone message (our landline’s voicemail is turned off; all our real contacts have our cellphone numbers) but that’s it. As for the neighbors, we truly do NOT care what they think; it’s only embarrassing for my en dad and HPD sister and her teenage son. I really have no idea what my father’s new partner knows or will think about all this when she figures it out.
I should add that they seem to have an inkling they won’t be getting through the door...they claim to have a hotel reservation. As my father put it when he announced their trip, they’re going to visit my city, hopefully with me, but it’s “up to me...” He’s right there!

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sandpiper

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015, 04:11:50 AM »
It sounds like they have Buckley's chance of finding you. If you say anything to the receptionist at work, I'd just say that you've heard that some extended family who don't understand boundaries have been talking of visiting you at your work. You've told them this is not appropriate but they have a hard time hearing no, so if anyone comes to the desk asking for you, please tell them that you aren't in, and if they push for details to say that company policy is that staff are expected to keep their private lives at home.
That should cover it.
I would think that if they turn up asking for someone by the wrong name, the receptionist can just say quite honestly that she does not know that person & please can they go away now as they've obviously got the wrong address.
I changed my first name as soon as I came of age & mother's FOO have flatly refused to acknowledge that.
All part of the power game.
Changing your first name is a powerful thing to do, and disordered FOO seem to see it as the ultimate act of defiance.
I think on some level it really gets to them that they no longer get to define who you are.

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Sparkle

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 04:25:03 AM »
AnneH - I think you seem to be handling this very well! So good to hear you have been able to set boundaries and remove yourself from all this! I was shocked to hear about their planned trip, just unbelievable! Hope they will leave you alone soon and that they don't find you. I wish you all the best!!

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AnneH

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 07:43:11 PM »
Hi,

Thanks again to all for your helpful replies to my post. Endad is trying to step up the pressure. He seems to realize that, indeed, this may just be an expensive trip for nothing. I phoned him last week and he kept saying how this was going to be his last trip abroad, how he isn’t getting any younger, etc. I just kept telling him that the trip isn’t getting any reaction from me and that we needed to change the subject. He even asked if I would meet with just him and his partner, without HPD sis being present (I don’t believe for one second that she wouldn’t show up, plus this is the dad that called me “outrageous” just two weeks ago for refusing to see HPD sis, which was the impetus for the trip to “see me” in the first place). I even got an email from en brother saying that en dad is really looking forward to the trip, and if I could just meet with everyone in my city, I could get things to go back to the way they were (e.g. full contact with HPD sis, absorbing all sorts of garbage to keep the peace).

I’m just really weirded out by the dual personality being displayed by en Dad –first he “chews me out” for not behaving, and now he’s all warm and fuzzy at the idea of seeing me and the notion that I might just not be there is too terrible (and inconceivable) for words. The thing is, he really was or would have been a good dad but his duties enabling N mom (now deceased) always came first, and her shoes have been filled by HPD/NPD sister.

Any ideas on how to handle en Dad by phone until the fateful trip?
Thanks.

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sandpiper

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 06:32:30 PM »
You are doing great.
Just keep on with the Broken Record strategy of 'I'm not going into all that again. That subject is closed.' and change the subject.
If he insists on pushing ahead with it just tell him 'It sounds like the only point of this conversation is for you to nag me. In that case we have nothing to say. I'll call you in a week & hopefully by then you'll have learned that No means No.'
And then just say goodbye politely and hang up on him.
You've obviously got a handle on the dynamics of what's going on here, all that's needed is to stay firm with your boundaries and to enforce unpleasant consequences when they are breached.

As for the Jekyll/Hyde crap, it's an abuser's MO.
FWIW I think the non-abusive parent must get some sort of vicarious satisfaction from watching the main abuser in action with their kids, otherwise they wouldn't stay and enable it. And they wouldn't be so quick to find someone to fill that gap in their lives when the abusive mother dies.
xxx

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AnneH

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The police have ordered NC! The trip may be off
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 07:13:51 PM »
Unbelievable but true, there has been a very positive development in my case. HPD/NPDsis' employer has its own code of conduct and, most importantly, its own police department, and is located in a state with extremely strict anti-stalking and harassment laws. With this intended trip to show up on my doorstep overseas, I wrote the police department there for advice, outlining the story from the beginning, explaining that she used her professional email and connections to try to get to me even though I didn't want contact, etc. (I made sure to state, and it's true, that I wasn't looking to embarrass anyone or cause trouble with her job and that my only goal was to get advice as to how to be left alone). I was sure they would reply that they couldn't do anything since I'm overseas. The very same day, however, BIL forwarded my husband an email from HPD/NPDsis stating that the police had let her know in no uncertain terms that she was not to contact me in any way, and that she risked professional sanctions or arrest if she did so. Like many HPD/NPD people, her job is EVERYTHING to her. And given the nature of her job, this is likely to be her lifelong employer (or else, any other employer will have the same type of code of conduct AND its own police department). BIL said that she most likely won't be making the trip at all. I'm amazed that the police took action in the way that they did; it totally took me by surprise, and I didn't even give them HPD/NPD sis' name, they extrapolated from mine. Of course, we can never let our guard down, but I had been anticipating decades of attempts to get at us via our young daughter, to find out where she goes to school, contact her via her online accounts, invite her to the US as soon as she is old enough, etc. This, at the very least, puts a powerful damper on all those plans. If I should ever get an inkling of any attempt to contact us or our daughter, I will write back to the police there. Still in shock and SO grateful to those police officers.

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VividImagination

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 09:05:44 PM »
Wow...awesome news!!! Congrats!!
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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closure_with_clarity

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 11:23:10 PM »
:cheer:  :cheer:  :cheer:

So happy and relieved for you Anne!!!!!
Let go of the people that dull your shine. Poison your spirit. And bring you drama. Cancel your subscription to their issues.  :)

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sandpiper

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2015, 08:14:03 PM »
Wow. Congratulations! That is amazing news.
That must be such a weight off your mind.
With any luck she'll try to persuade your father to cancel his trip, too.
 :like: :like: :like:

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AnneH

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Silent treatment...
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 06:47:44 AM »
I am thrilled beyond belief that the police have acted on this to discourage the stalking behavior. At the very least, there is a record that I complained, they talked to her, and if she ever starts up again or tries to contact my daughter, I will go RIGHT back to them (and she knows this).
I've been getting the silent treatment for the past 10 days from my dad and brother (no calls or emails AT ALL since they found out the police have been involved). This is actually a first. I have gotten the silent treatment in the past, for the better part of a year in fact, but that was after being repeatedly berated for MONTHS for having boundaries and then not changing them. I have NEVER gotten the ST without it being preceded by a period of major toxic nastiness.


 I really miss being in contact with my brother though...now, he's a major enabler, totally enmeshed with en dad in thinking that I'm behaving outrageously in breaking up the family, and convinced that our Nmom (deceased) was a saint. I can't have an honest relationship with him (e.g. give him any more than the limited information my dad gets because I know it will be passed on). Besides, he was there when en dad announced the « trip to see me » and made his own speech plus a followup email about poor long-suffering HPD sis and her one desire to be forgiven and make things right. So why do I still want contact with him ? Probably because he’s the only one never to initiate abusive tactics and to be genuinely interested in my life and what I’m doing (at least before I thwarted the big expensive plan to bring me back to the fold). And not to blow my own horn, but I would say that I’m the only one in FOO to be genuinely interested in him (usually everything is about uHPDsis and her family and career. Brother has no partner or children and a job he isn’t particularly fond of). He lives practically next door to en dad (elderly) and helps him get by.
So what would you do ? Would you email brother and ask how he is doing ? I really care about him and want to talk to him but only to the part of him that is NOT enabling the PD side of the family, if that makes any sense. And I realize that part of him probably can’t be separated off, especially now. The thing is, his email has been used as a mouthpiece in the past to spout pro-family propaganda (they all get together behind his computer to compose a joint diatribe against me) or to try to glean personal information about me and my FOC...And then part of me says (and has been saying for many years) that I’m better off in full NC with all of FOO, which looks like what will happen if I don’t make a step in his direction. I think the FOO motto has become « all or none, » i.e ; full contact with uHPDsis or no contact with anyone. Someone posted on here about "assumptions." I really relate to that post...I think they have all convinced themselves that, monster that I am, I will send any communication from them back to the police to prove that uHPDsis is trying to contact me through them. Late uNPDmom was a real catastrophic thinker...

I should conclude by saying Brother is not one to say No to FOO about anything...ever.

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 07:13:25 AM by AnneH »

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bunnie

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 09:20:20 AM »
I'm new to this forum and still learning about how to deal with my family.
But one piece of constant advice I've gotten from a dear friend and my aunt:
Don't let them change who you are.  So if you want to express your caring, concern and love in a particular way, do it.

I wouldn't mention anyone else or ask questions.  Share what you're comfortable sharing with him and let him know that you are interested in and love him.
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize - Voltaire

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AnneH

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2015, 07:29:52 AM »
UPDATE: The “trip to see me” came and went, as far as we know, and obviously we weren’t there. We didn’t hear anything from neighbors or my office about anyone asking for us, and we didn’t get anything in our mailbox either. (Again, a BIG thanks to the police as things certainly wouldn’t have been that quiet without them; I was anticipating a sit-in as well as heart-rending notes in our mailbox).
The silent treatment due to police discouraging HPDsis from coming began about a month before the trip was supposed to begin. It lasted until right about the date I assume everyone arrived back home where they belong. On that very same day, I received TWO emails, one from enbro and one from endad as if NOTHING had transpired!! (enbro wasn’t supposed to be on the trip anyway but obviously thought the silent treatment was worth trying for the good of the family...)
Enbro’s emails are the same as they always were, full of humor, asking how we’re all doing, and discussing what he’s doing at the moment. Endad says how much he misses me and how much he wants me to call him! Not one single reference to the very expensive and fruitless trip to my doorstep, assuming it happened. It seems to be a huge taboo.
I have decided to go VLC with both of them (they’re the only ones that still use my former email address, so I open that once a week and reply in a few vacuous lines). Meanwhile my daughter’s 1st birthday came and went after the silent treatment was already over, with no acknowledgement whatsoever. When we were with endad, we noticed that his other grandchildren’s (HPDsis’ children) birthdays were all written on his calendar, but not our daughter’s, even though I called him the day she was born and we had regular webcam contact until we went abroad to see him and things went south. (He also deposited what for us is a very large sum of money into her bank account when she was a couple months old).
I assume enDad has “decreed” that it’s OK to write to me since, in spite of my evil nature, I AM a blood relative and “family is everything.” Otherwise I assume I would never have heard from enbro again. (Poor enbro “loves” me and doesn’t realize how “evil” I really am, isn’t that pitiful?)
I really have no intention of calling enDad; one email a week is enough for me. I don’t know if he wants to just pretend none of this ever happened, playing the “old age and vulnerability” card, or if he wants to chew me out and give me another ultimatum? I’m not interested either way...
Any insight into their behavior? My DH says they’re so pathetic that they don’t even have the gumption to shun me permanently.

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AnneH

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2015, 07:24:40 AM »
New update: uHPD/NSis donated to charity in my name for my birthday (thoughtful! :stars:)  and I received an ecard from her signed "love." I forwarded this to the police, who talked to her AGAIN and let me know that she has promised not to send me anything further.

I think this gift was intended to get me to commit the ultimate crime: she can't completely override her infinitely generous nature and made this gift despite the danger to her beloved career and her evil, evil sister used her gift to charity to get her in trouble with the police! (I did tell the police yet again that I don't want to see her penalized career-wise or criminally but that her household MUST stop any contact with my household).

I'm sure she tattled to endad and enbro who continue to write to me as if nothing had transpired. Enbro tried to call me on my birthday (we were away on vacation, we never tell them about holidays and anyway their numbers ring silent) and endad is begging me to resume phone contact.

I really don't want to see her career penalized but if she makes one more attempt to contact any of us I will have to stop asking the police for leniency, even if the penalty seems extremely disproportionate (suspension or arrest).

Going off on a tangent, do any of you have extremely "selfless, non-materialistic, example-setting" PD family members? To the extreme that, even though there's a fairly large extended family, on birthdays/ holidays etc. her kids are only allowed to select 1 gift from everything they receive and the rest goes to charity? They also never had any toys involving electronics or music, they get hand-me-downs from friends even though uHpd/Nsis has a very large salary, etc? This is modeled on our late NM's philosophy that anything modern or fashionable (read anything from Sesame Street to new clothes) was "bad"...even though there was no religion involved? 




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Otter

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Re: I finally "merit" a visit...because I was "bad"
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2015, 12:01:49 AM »
Regarding the charitable gifts:  "Mommy Dearest," aka movie star Joan Crawford, used to throw backyard birthday parties for her adopted daughter Christina.  After everything was opened and her daughter delighted in the pile of gifts, Crawford would instruct the servants to take everything away and give it to "poor, unfortunate children."  If Christina cried at this, Crawford deemed her as spoiled, selfish, little brat and punished her accordingly.

This accomplished several things.  It made Crawford look like a saint, it hurt Christina and made her look bad for a perfectly normal response, and it gave Crawford another reason to disparage and punish Christina.  Crawford eventually died leaving the bulk of her estate to charity, some to her servants and nothing to either of her two adopted children.

Christina got the last word when she wrote her book.

OP you sound like a strong woman.  Keep on doing what you're doing.  It's necessary to break the abuse cycle.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 12:13:12 AM by Otter »