Signs we missed that they don't care about us

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farfromthetree

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Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« on: June 09, 2015, 08:48:29 AM »
Up until I was 57 years old (last year) I continued to have a relationship with my uPDm. I never liked her, but I just figured yeah well she's my mom. Never once did I question whether she cared about me. Now I'm starting to remember things she did during my adult years which should have clued me in. I'm wondering if it's a good idea for all emerging adults to be more family-aware. They should be encouraged to evaluate their own relationships with their FOO. If I had been encouraged to do so, I would have saved myself a lot of heartache. But our culture doesn't support such encouragement. In fact, it actively DIScourages evaluation of one's relationship with one's FOO.

Here's one sign I missed that she just doesn't care about me. (There are many others). When I was pregnant with my third child, I learned I'd been exposed to chicken pox and realized I was not sure if I'd had the chicken pox. My doctor told me to go find out. I was also quite sick, and overwhelmed by taking care of my two year old and one year old.

The phone call to get my mother's help was a nightmare. She showed no interest in digging up records, and insisted I had had the chicken pox (the thing to say to get her out of doing any work!) I pressed her to call the school district to find the records there, which she balked about, and insisted they wouldn't have the records any more, as it was so long ago! I pressed her into trying. She made one phone call (allegedly) then gave up.

I finally had to dig up the right phone number myself, and learned that in fact, I had not had the chicken pox. Arrrrggghhh! Interestingly, I concluded, as I always did, that she was incompetent, stupid, lazy, and annoying. But uncaring? I hadn't thought of that.

Now I see things through a different lens. Getting this information correct just wasn't important to her. She only wanted to say whatever she needed to say to get off the hook of having to do any work. She just doesn't care. It's sad but there's also something sweet about knowing the cold hard facts of a matter. Knowing the truth has set me free.

Anybody else miss such signs as adults?   :groovey:

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Hysperger

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2015, 09:23:53 AM »
Not as an adult, but your post just triggered a memory from my childhood:

I was 11 (?, definitely primary school), and I had gotten acute appendicitis.
So we went to the hospital, where I got scheduled to have surgery later that day.
Mom left, to pick up dad (now I think they probably had arranged marriage counseling that day, as she had to pick up dad for some reason, something she never did. But never mind).
I was left all alone in a corridor in the hospital, in agony off course (I was humped over from the belly-pain), for hours and hours. I remember a nurse passing by saying: "Wow, what a brave boy, waiting here all alone", but not in a very praising/jolly tone/body language.

I only saw my mom (&dad) again in the recovery room.

What the … was so important she had to leave me there?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 09:26:28 AM by Hysperger »
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ConsciousCompetence

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2015, 09:57:57 AM »
I actually made up a timeline recently, trying to find a time when she did care. I am very recently ootf and NC. Due to convoluted circumstances that would take too long to explain in this post, I haven't lived with mother since I was 15 (other than a short 4 month stint).  Visits back to my hometown were costly and well documented with photos so it was easy to track 25+ years of "relationship". I realized there were expectations and supposed anticipation of our visits but little follow through. Getting me into my first apartment was really her getting out of her lease by transference. Whenever we've lived somewhere interesting, she jumps at the opportunity to visit. When we've lived in closer, less interesting places - even with grandchildren on the menu - not interested. Of course, she never has money she hasn't begged, borrowed, or stolen so I didn't encourage visits. I've never wanted to have any part of her financial indiscretions.  It was a weird disconnect where I accepted she didn't have the money but knew she was gambling, doing drugs, or buying someone's admiration.

Side note, our kids were born before the older generations were prevalent on Facebook. I am thankful for that because I think there would have been more posturing for supply if she'd had a platform.
Empathy, a parent's ability to understand what a child is feeling, is an important and valuable ingredient of child rearing. -Haim Ginott

What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself. -Abraham Maslow

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Myownperson

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 11:59:16 AM »
I remember when I was 8 months pregnant with my second child.
At that time I worked for my mother.
I had a terrible, terrible cough and cold but I was very conscientious ( or should that be too scared not to turn up for work ) and felt awful
Anyway, she turned up. She could see how sick I was.
And she said. " I'm not going to stay because you might ask me to work for you"
She could easily have stayed and done my work and let me go home.
2 week after that I had my baby.

But yes but I was the same as farfromthetree in that it is only now that I am OOTF and can look back with clarity just how much she didn't care. And never has done.
But I'm guessing it takes us so long to find out because it is just so unbelievable and abnormal.

I could never ever do the same to my daughter.

Uugh she makes me feel quite sick.
What freaks of nature these awful mothers are.


« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 12:00:53 PM by Myownperson »

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UKannie

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 12:05:24 PM »
I found a photo of myself as a pre-schooler with rotten teeth. In all other photos until I get my adult teeth my mouth is shut.

All aspects of dentistry were provided free to children in the UK in the 1970s (some procedures still are). She had no excuse - she just hated going to the dentist herself and didn't want to take us.

I can only guess that a nurse visiting the school spotted something was wrong and told her we had to see a dentist.

I think there are some really, really nasty consequences of PD parents seeing us as an extension of themselves. If they don't like or don't need something then their reasoning goes we don't either.

When I was seven and broke a bone in my elbow, I had to be demanded to be taken to hospital. It was always like that. My brother got treated in hospital once for a minor condition, but it was at my grandparent's local hospital not ours. I think the impetus to get him treated must have come from them.

I hate thinking about stuff like this. It re-traumatises me and makes me hate her. I wish social services had been called and given her a warning. She can be such an ignorant, selfish monster. I'm very angry that teachers/doctors/extended family did not intervene more.

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Jade63

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 02:06:07 PM »
Interestingly, I concluded, as I always did, that she was incompetent, stupid, lazy, and annoying. But uncaring? I hadn't thought of that.

 :yeahthat:
Nope, hadn't thought of that, either.

Someone on a different topic recently posted:
"... for some people, the SGs, particularly, the PDs happily let them go. They've wanted to be rid of the SG their whole lives, and now they are, and they are (they think) blameless because the SG cut contact. They decide they can finally live the "happy" life they've always wanted."

The above eluded me...completely...until now.

As Myownperson pointed out: I'm guessing it takes us so long to find out because it is just so unbelievable and abnormal.

~Jade

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Terichan

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2015, 03:46:36 PM »
I agree, these people are our parents -- we grew up with them, we thought our parents were normal, we thought our relationships were normal. Sure, there were problems, but everyone has problems, right? They were the ones who were supposed to teach us what "normal" looked like, and we learned from them. We learned not to question them, to accept their behavior as that of people who "knew better" than us.

For people with normal parents, the idea that their parents know better, and are wiser, lasts their whole lives even into adulthood. After all, our parents are a generation ahead of us, they have more wisdom and experience, so they will always be a step ahead of us, right? As people get older, they generally get wiser, therefore parents will always be wiser than their children. I think humans are programmed to think this way. So us ACONs have to actively disable that programming to come Out of the FOG, which is a very difficult thing to do.

It's funny -- 3 years ago, when my daughter was hospitalized, my mother didn't come to visit her. She sent flowers once, and that was IT. She didn't call to ask how her granddaughter was doing, she didn't ask to talk to her when we did talk on the phone (me always calling her, of course.) And the funny thing was... I didn't even notice. It never came to my consciousness, if that makes any sense. I never thought "Huh, I wonder why mom hasn't come to the hospital?" or "Hmmm, I wonder why mother doesn't want to talk to my daughter?" or anything like that. I simply didn't think about it.

A huge part of it was that I was too focused on my daughter to really notice what anyone else was doing. (I bet that drove my uBPD mother crazy, that I wasn't focused on her and all her fake "illnesses" any more, like I was supposed to be. I had someone with a REAL illness to worry about, thankyouverymuch.)

But the other main reason was: that was par for the course for my mother, to simply ignore any problems I (or by extension her granddaughter) was having. I'd become so accustomed to being completely ignored and dismissed in times of crisis that it just seemed perfectly normal, for my mother to ignore me and my daughter at that time. That was my "normal", that was what I expected, that was who my mother was.

So I guess that was a sign I missed, that she really didn't care about us. She didn't lift a finger to provide any emotional or moral support to me or my daughter in a time of great crisis, and I missed it entirely. It was only about a year later that the significance of it hit me right between the eyes, and I started seeing the bigger picture more clearly.
“Sometimes your joy is the source of your smile, but sometimes your smile can be the source of your joy.”
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LeeJane

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 03:59:14 PM »
I found a photo of myself as a pre-schooler with rotten teeth. In all other photos until I get my adult teeth my mouth is shut.

All aspects of dentistry were provided free to children in the UK in the 1970s (some procedures still are). She had no excuse - she just hated going to the dentist herself and didn't want to take us.


Thank you for sharing this.  I found it great comfort.  My PDmum was exactly the same.  Wouldn't take us kids to the dentist.  Also never encouraged the routine of teeth cleaning.  She hated the dentist and had her teeth all removed aged 21.  She told me for was in constant pain with toothache and couldn't wait to get them taken out. You would have thought she would want to save us going through the same toothache as she suffered.  But no. 

I was given a brace mid teens, mum made me take it out and she throw it away.  It annoyed her apparently!

I started going to the dentist when I was old enough to arrange it and get them by myself.  She didn't want me or my siblings to go.  Same with the doctor.  Odd.  I am in the UK too so was free so it was never about money.

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flyingfree

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 06:12:07 PM »
For me it was the realisation that my NM had totally neglected my mental health as a teen.

I think it was when I was about 15 or 16...can't remember....I started self-harming, and I was very depressed. I was having awful panic attacks, some so bad that I looked physically ill and often was sent home from school. Eventually I went to talk to my Dean about it all, and admitted to the self-harm. She called my NM and told her everything.

I remember NM picking me up after school and having a chat with me about it. I think she told me not to do it again, and she said she would put me on some vitamins that would help with my 'emotions'.

I had another recurrence a couple months later and the dean rang NM again. The same thing happened; NM told me in an offhand way that I could go to a church counsellor 'if you want'. The counsellor was a friend of hers and I was mortified at the thought of it because I knew she would tell NM everything. Also, at that point, I was having severe faith doubts and I was too scared to admit to this. So, I said no.

What struck me later was that other than those conversations, she never really checked up on me. She never really explored why I was having issues with panic attacks, anxiety and depression. I was living in a hell of mental illness and she didn't DO anything. She didn't insist on sending me to a counsellor (a proper one, where I could talk freely). She didn't take me to the doctor, even. She just gave me B vitamins and sent me on my way. I don't think it even occurred to her how ill I really was; to be honest, I was suicidal at points. She could have lost me totally, but she didn't care.

If my daughter came to me in the state I was in, I would have pulled her out of school the next day, found a counsellor that would take her immediately. I would tell her to come to me any time she felt low and we'd talk through it together and work it out. I'd lock up all the knives in the house. I'd be worried sick.

My mother? Didn't really give a f*ck. To her, I was just another moody teenager with non-problems, and she couldn't cope with it, so it was up to me to deal with it.

Once I realised that, the scales fell from my eyes. I stopped blaming myself for all of that mental illness when I was a teen. I stopped thinking I was the problem, the defective one. And, I also saw the pattern of her emotional neglect. I saw it again last year when my long-term (several years) relationship ended and she could barely muster up any sympathy. In fact, she just made a dig at me about how he never proposed marriage to me.

What a gem she is.

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Tanasha224

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2015, 05:06:47 AM »
I'm fairly recently OOTF (10 months and 8 months NC) and this is something that I have struggled with because it is so foreign to me. Even though the reality of it smacks me in the face, I still find it hard to accept. When I was so sick in the hospital and not expected to survive the night, she was going to wait until the following weekend to come. Later on she tried to blame my DH for not telling her how sick I was. Then after I was getting better, she blamed me for her missing work. When we had to put our dog down, she only cared that it affected her plans, not how it devastated our family. I can look back now and almost cry at things she did that I excused or chose to believe it couldn't be what it seemed.

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Hysperger

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2015, 07:16:34 AM »
This is something where I didn't see the full significance, but did feel how bad it was, resulting in a full year of NC. Now I wish I had never returned from NC.

My parents got planning for divorce when I was in my 30's. My uHPDmom had left the house, but still wanted to work on it/see if this was what she really wanted. The topic was effectively declared 'taboo': this was something they had to figure out between themselves. Obviously the topic was too big to ignore, and thus it always crept up when I would meet them. They brought it up mostly, and obviously I had a 'need' to know as well. We never got far.
After about a year we kids were invited for a day to talk about the whole affair, as we "probably had some questions".
We had, but none of them got answered: this was something between the two of them. :o
The day ended with the declaration they would 'work on it' for at least another year. I told them that in that case I didn't want to hear a single word on the marriage/reconciliation/'divorce' process. It couldn't be that I was not allowed to get any answer, yet they would babble on about it.

Within weeks my mom was on the phone, wanting to talk about it! I said "No" and asked if she hadn't heard I didn't want to talk about it.
"Yes, but I still find it important to talk to you about it" and "I demand respect!" after I exploded in anger over her willful and premeditated border-violation/invasion of my privacy. I slammed down the phone after shouting to her this meant I didn't want to speak with her the whole year they would be 'working on it'.

That was first NC with a family member ever.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 07:23:01 AM by Hysperger »
--- I love straightforward people. The lack of drama makes life so much easier. ---

--- To pursue the path of healing we need to remember what we have endured. Restoring ones sense of self means restoring memory, recognizing what happened. Without memory there is no healing --- Desmond Tutu

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daughter

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2015, 09:09:12 AM »
Two odd (and very hurtful) incidents re: NBM's malevolent behavior towards me, when I was seven (!) made me realize, as a little kid, that my mother was mean, and "a bit twisted".  I can't recall any strange demeanor before then, but I definitely began to note it thereafter.  Grammar school years were FILLED with episodes of her manipulation and plain meanness towards me, while coddling younger nsis.  Bad behavior began shortly after nsis' birth.  Never felt personally responsible for creating this dynamic, I simply recognized it, unfortunately meekly accepted it (with lots of pressure from NF, as well as punitive nature of NBM), and remained enmeshed, duty-bound until my mid-50s, fully OOTF, yet still unfailingly compliant and obedient.

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ootf12345

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2015, 03:56:19 AM »
I was unwell for a while. Suffering from a chronic condition. I got told I was making it up.
I had to go for day surgery and they called the house to confirm.
She answered and they said they were from the "elective day surgery centre".
Yep....... She basically thought I was putting myself through surgery even though nothing was wrong with me.
There was no explaining that - there's URGENT surgery, then there's elective surgery ( is surgery that is scheduled in advance because it does not involve a medical emergency. ).
Needless to say, it was a hassle organsing who was picking me up and dropping me off at the hospital.

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Hysperger

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2015, 05:11:15 AM »
Good grief.

Sometimes for me this site has a "Deeper into the pit" ring to it. These DP parents really haven't got a clue, do they.

I still have crooked teeth, for my parents said they would grow straight by themselves and a brace wasn't needed.  :stars:
--- I love straightforward people. The lack of drama makes life so much easier. ---

--- To pursue the path of healing we need to remember what we have endured. Restoring ones sense of self means restoring memory, recognizing what happened. Without memory there is no healing --- Desmond Tutu

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Claudia

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2015, 06:14:51 AM »
I just realised (like many others on here) that my NPDF just doesn't care.  I could list a million things he's done that demonstrate that but like most of you the list would be pages long!

I guess I just thought it was because my father was of a different generation as my mother had always said 'well fathers didn't do that stuff back then'.  I had always just accepted that I guess but then I noticed that a lot of my friends fathers were now very hands on with their children.  Now as grandfathers they had more time on their hands or they regretted not being there for their own children so they wanted to change that and be involved with their own grandchildren.

My NF on the other hand is not the slightest bit interested in his grandchildren either.  That's when I realised he just doesn't care.

Just to add my M sent my son some money for his birthday but didn't call him on his birthday.  I have not heard from her so am guessing she is waiting for him to call her to say thanks for the money.  He's only 10 and was a bit upset she didn't actually call him.  The more I think about her the more I think she is a narcissist too  >:(

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Myownperson

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2015, 09:36:23 AM »
Claudia. How hurtful for your son and for you too. It is like being rejected all over again
My uBPDM forgot my sons first birthday and when I told her she had forgotten she blamed me and said that I should have reminded her!
When he was also about 11 she said she would call on his birthday and she didn't.

Aren't they just disgusting!

I'm so glad for this board. It just strengthens my resolve in knowing that NC was the only thing I could've done
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 09:40:44 AM by Myownperson »

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farfromthetree

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2015, 04:21:11 PM »

I'm so glad for this board. It just strengthens my resolve in knowing that NC was the only thing I could've done

Same here. Sometimes I feel my resolve growing thin, only because of misguided guilt, and all I have to do is surf here for ten minutes!

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Reswob

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2015, 03:59:25 AM »
I have had similar experiences to people with negligent parenting relating to medical issues but I only realised recently  that it stems from favouritism. My Mother was very serious about her family propaganda and I believed it for ages. I believed that my brother and I were loved equally and were given equal treatment. The event that crystallised the favouritism for me was when my brother told me that "love was selfish" in relation to his friend spending more time with his fiance than him. 

That made me start wondering how he believes things that are polar opposite of my beliefs which led me onto thinking that we were treated differently. I then remembered that often I would come home from school to find that my brother had new toys or had been taken out to eat lunch at a restaurant and there would be no treats for me. My brother had life threatening asthma and when he was hospitalised for months I was made to wait for any kind of attention. I was just  told to be patient and wait my turn because my brother was sick. I missed out on school I was left at home alone when I was six years old. They always let my brother have his way and he always grabbed what he believed was the best of everything. He grabbed the top bunk and then my Mother went into a whole elaborate bedtime ritual putting cushions everywhere to stop him falling off the top bunk while ignoring me. Usually when she bought us toys, she bought one each for us but if my brother wanted my one I had to "share" which meant that I had to relinquish it to him and wait my turn, which often didn't come. When we were teenagers he was always given the high value stuff, the game consoles or the computers, but I was made to feel guilty for asking for books or even buying them for myself with my meager amount of pocket money I saved up. Other siblings would have rebelled against the differential treatment but I just accepted it because if I contested it Mum would have gotten physically abusive. It was much better to be quiet and hope people left me in peace.

I came to the realisation that my family did not care about me when I had a bladder infection when I was 20. I stayed quiet about it because I was afraid of Mum. She would always shout at me for being sick. "Why didn't you tell me sooner??" and she'd go on for hours about how I was bad because of that. Eventually I got the courage up to tell her and she started to shriek the same abuse out like nails down a chalkboard. I was in so much pain that I fainted. They took me to the emergency ward and Mum was sitting there looking teary while I rolled about in pain. She suddenly got up and told me that she had to take Dad home because he needed his sleep (at this point he was retired mind you). She put a blanket over me and left taking the family with her. I was left there all alone in agony wishing I would die, knowing I would not. I came to the epiphany moment that no-one could look after me, no-one cared and no-one loved me. I rolled over, faced the wall and cried myself to sleep. Whenever another family member was in hospital someone would stay with them. Mum slept in the hospital when my brother was sick and Dad was sleeping in the hospital when Mum was sick but when I was sick I was abandoned. That was the time when I realised that throughout my childhood I was scared of Mum when I was sick because she would shout but my brother was always doted on. It was like I was an inconvenience.

That was the point where I decided I was going plan my departure and never live with the family again. I'm in such a better place now.   
The misplaced zygote weaves its own legends, forges its own truth and syntheses its own reality.

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BetterFuture

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2015, 07:46:27 AM »
I think I was fortunate... I never believed my mother cared, so spared myself the enlightenment and pain of realising this later in life.

I was pre-school age when I decided I never want to be close to her or be like her. I've since asked myself why I thought this at such a young age. But here are a few things I remember or have been told, which would explain it:

1. She didn't come when I cried as a baby - stuck me at the end of the garden to "scream to the bird". I was sick and ended up in the children's hospital
2. She didn't tend to me as a baby during the night...my dad always got up and comforted me (apparently, I trust my dad on this, he doesn't lie and manipulate and it rings true)
3. She forgot many of my birthdays
4. She barely fed me and resented spending any money on me
5. My teeth also needed braces, which I never got
6. I have a large scar on my arm that should have had stitches - never got them, A&E was too much of a wait
7. She actually told me at 13 years old she didn't care and I was "on my own"

Think you get the picture!

Yes this hurt as a child but at least I had my loving dad. She now has no friends and only my emeshed flea-ridden en-sister speaks to her. In flying monkey chat from my sister apparently "mum would love a relationship with me". Think it's a bit late to play happy families and besides, she's not changed. If anyone else would speak to her she wouldn't care a dime about me.

Out of the FOF and very much staying out!

Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one. You cannot make any useful contribution in life unless you do this. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Myownperson

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Re: Signs we missed that they don't care about us
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2015, 09:37:32 AM »
Poor BetterFuture  >:(
That makes me so sad. What a sick woman she is.
Even when you were a baby.
I think my mother was ok until I got to the age of about 8 and started to have an opinion of my own.
But maybe she wasn't. I actually don't know.
My real father told me that she used to always poke me hard in the chest when she was displeased with me and I remember a time very clearly when I didn't want to eat something and she literally shoved it in my mouth and kept shoving and shoving it my mouth until I'd eaten it.
I must have been young then.
But it was from about the age of 10 when she really started her reign of terror.

BetterFuture, it is their loss not ours. We are far better off without those sick people in our lives.
And yes, far too late to start playing pretend happy families now
Peace to you all
« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 09:40:55 AM by Myownperson »