Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...

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lovingheart

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Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« on: February 22, 2016, 12:42:58 PM »
Hello,

I've been NC with my FOO for 8 months or so. I've talked to other family members of course and they don't know the situation. For the past two weeks... It has been non stop calls from them and leaving voicemails. At first, I could get past this but I'm starting to get flares of guilt and anxiety.
I don't know how to handle this anymore. I'm still mad about how they treated me but I can't seem to hold on to that anger anymore. I am so much happier with out having them in my life but at the same time... The immense guilt won't go away.
I don't want to talk to them but at the same time I don't know what to do regarding them.
I am typically sure about myself but the self doubt and guilt has been showing in my dreams. I am just so tired of feeling as if I am the crazy one and it's been this long... I am doubting my memories as if I were the one who made them up but I know that is not true... The doubt though...  :stars: :stars: :stars:
It'll be a year in July for NC and I plan on keeping up with it until I am ready to face them, that's if I will ever feel ready.
Y'all are probably getting tired of my posts... It always seems to be about the same thing... I just don't know who else to talk to or where else to mention this...
Thanks for listening.
~Rains
Healing doesn't mean the damage never existed. It means the damage no longer controls our lives.

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Amber_L

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 04:47:42 PM »
I hear you lovingheart and encourage you to hang in there.

You are sounding  low.

If  these people were not making you feel guilty then they would not be worth the trouble of  removing yourself from, so the fact that they are is further evidence that you are on the right path.

Time to give yourself some TLC......take yourself to a movie, treat yourself to a favorite meal, take a day off, go for a walk on the beach /mountain....play with the dog. Breathe deeply for 5 minutes.

Think of how far you have come and how strong you have needed to be to get so far.  :applause:


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biggerfish

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 05:01:10 PM »
Lovingheart, this is pretty common and typical. It's hard to go NC, and what we get for our troubles is some residual guilt. But stick with it. Remember that the name of this board is out of the Fear, Obligation, and GUILT. It's hard work to rise above these.

Perhaps also your FOO is finding subtle, manipulative ways of pushing your guilt buttons. Some people can be awfully clever about how to do that. Remember that they know a lot about you and your temperament. They know what makes you tick, at least as far as controlling you is concerned.

I've been NC almost 2 years now, and I still get the guilt feelings. Also the sense of shame that I am a bad daughter. But I've been so happy being NC that I'm willing to put up with those feelings. These feelings don't imply that something different must be done. They are only feelings and they do not suggest any real danger to you.

Besides, do you really want to resume contact just to alleviate some feelings? How well will that go in the long run? :) Keep your sense of humor and learn to live with these feelings. They're only annoying gnats, nothing more.

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Liz1018

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 08:31:58 PM »
Lovingheart, I feel for you - truly understand and living the same experience with less time under my belt.

Such comforting advice to hear from you, Biggerfish and AmberLagoon. It is good to have your perspectives. The gnat visual is especially helpful!

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jenizen

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 08:50:54 PM »
Hello lovingheart,
Oh wow, what a great topic - so um, "topical" for me today - I had just as I finished posting to your topic on the article "running away". Then I received a call at work, I turned to look at the call display and realized this is the new number my PDM has.

My stomach dropped, I was flooded by fight or flight cortisol, adrenalin - just seeing the number. I felt nauseous, scared, repulsed...
Of course, being the dutiful, groomed for supply and service daughter even though I am VLC -  I then listened to to message....

And of course, she sounded old, and I know she is lonely in her long term care facility. And OMG I am her "daughter" (insert societal guilt here)  and I feel so bad for her, truly..the life she made for herself is really tragic.....

I know its f'd up but I am a compassionate person (and a soft, soft sucker - oh, yeah mind-warp, old programming - I was made for this).  It's so easy, so easy to convince myself away (question my feelings, downplay) how terrible it was and would be if I let the tentacles creep back in...from the trickery, torture, calculated manipulation, abandonment, terrorizing, decimation of my younger siblings...the sickly sweet voice, the words, and words and words...
she's always been good at trickery...

She even sounded pleasant. but OMG MY BODY KNOWS...I need to remember to be the parent to me that I never had. My whole being does not want contact with her...every part of me wants to RUN from it and hide. I NEED to honour that - I NEED to respect and mother the ME that needs protecting. I can't fight that...I need to take care of me. (yep,  i was siting at my desk, with normal work stuff going on and all this swirled through me).

biggerfish really had good reflections on this here...these are gnats..just feelings.. no real danger...and we learn to live with the feelings because it is a trade-off.

Also the sense of shame that I am a bad daughter. But I've been so happy being NC that I'm willing to put up with those feelings. These feelings don't imply that something different must be done. They are only feelings and they do not suggest any real danger to you.

Besides, do you really want to resume contact just to alleviate some feelings? How well will that go in the long run? :) Keep your sense of humor and learn to live with these feelings. They're only annoying gnats, nothing more.

Peace and much healing to you and our community,
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 09:00:23 PM by jenizen »
My posts here are just thoughts & opinions based on my personal experience.  After so long in FOG I'm honouring & accepting me & all of my emotions in my process. Peace & healing on your unique journey. (bipolar, schizo-affective, N,BPDMother & Covert N enFather & 2 B's living with schizo-affective)

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alonenow

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 10:16:09 PM »
we all have these moments when we wonder if only............. or was it really that bad. Societies memes and pressure  only add to it.  I feel better coming to the forum and knowing that there are quite a few of us in the same boat.   I have been toying with not coming here any longer just because I want to not have to think about it.  I must have reached her last straw as no one has made any calls for almost a year now.  every time I feel down like I should re-evaluate I remember no one has made ANY effort on that side and then I feel better. My suggestion to you is try my shoes where no one is even bothering now to try.

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moglow

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 10:17:19 PM »
The gift that keeps on giving 😕

I'm 54 and started actively fighting this battle some 15-20 years ago now. Before then I was frankly in denial and thought I could fix it. It was me. I was the problem. Just ask her. Lord know I heard it often enough.

When the lights came on and the masks came off, I couldn't ignore it anymore. Mother was/is severely damaged and hellbent on passing that along - and I was seemingly her most vulnerable target.

Ultimately, my body told the tale. Nightmares, sleepless nights, migraines, severe stomach upsets after being around or talking to certain family members. Every time. I had to start paying attention and I did.

What I'm saying is, listen to your body. Pay attention to your interactions with others. Find what feeds and soothes you, end those that starve and abuse you. You know. You've probably known for a long time. Learn to nurture and value yourself, and do things that add to your life.

As a therapist once asked me: If these people were not your relatives/your mother, what would you do? Seriously. Sounds like it adds nothing positive but rather sucks you dry. Why?
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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lovingheart

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 11:30:23 AM »
I truly appreciate all of y'alls input!

The thing is with my family is that when I have listened to my nBPDM's voicemail, it's always so sweet and caring... I think that's what hits me most. I wish she were angry and resentful but when I think about it... She's only doing this to get me back and to talk to her. I know for a fact if I started talking to her again, it would be only stabs of guilt towards me... How "I don't love her", "The pain I've caused her", and "She's so lonely".  That would only be the beginning... I know for a fact if I were to continue talking to her, she'd pry, and begin to yell at me.

It's hard to trust the way my body reacts because I'm used to going against it. I do freak out when I see a phone call from either of my parents especially from my M.

For once, I am happy and I have a mother figure who I know and I am actually able to talk to her without having her over reacting and breaking in or giving me the cold shoulder. I am so grateful for this. I have to remind myself that, this is what normal is, not what I was previously dealing with.

I hope these feelings go away soon.
Healing doesn't mean the damage never existed. It means the damage no longer controls our lives.

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daughter

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 11:56:49 AM »
When you're questioning your NC status, it's good to ask yourself:  Am I "feeling better" now without their daily dysfunctional presence, their potential to hurt and FOG me, in my daily-life?  The underlying FOO issues, their problematic behaviors, the pd-disordered dysfunctional family dynamic, none of these factors change during NC, none of these factors are within our control to change or moderate.  We can control and moderate only our own behavior, our own expectations, our own boundaries that we implement.  When we re-engage, it's usually with all the same issues, same disordered behavior, same inappropriate expectations and demands to consume us, everything resumed "as it was".

For some, it's possible to resume a VLC/MC relationship after a period of NC, a sort of "greeting card and high holiday" low-expectation zero emotional-investment relationship, probably most suitable for those with significant physical distance between themselves and their problematic pd-disordered parents and Flying Monkey siblings/relatives.  For others, including me, it's less probable that any reconciliation can occur, whether due to magnitude of emotional-damage that occurred prior to NC decision, and/or due to further horrible behavior occurring post-NC, validating that NC decision even more.     

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RapunzelNoMore

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 02:57:02 PM »
I still get demanding voicemails from my Other, and so does DH, all of them ordering me to call. I'm very tempted to do this next time...

http://youtu.be/4PxJ2L6yX-8
And at last I see the light, and it's like the fog has lifted

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biggerfish

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 03:10:28 PM »
I still get demanding voicemails from my Other, and so does DH, all of them ordering me to call. I'm very tempted to do this next time...

http://youtu.be/4PxJ2L6yX-8

I just watched above link. Thanks for the laugh!

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lovingheart

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 04:24:19 PM »
Thanks again!

I agree completely. I knew I was emotionally damaged before I left and went NC but I hadn't realized the full blown damage that had occurred. The stress, migraines, anxiety, and panic attacks. All resulted because of them.
But as I have continued NC, less migraines, less anxiety, and less panic attacks. I never knew this would eventually be a bit better.

I still get demanding voicemails from my Other, and so does DH, all of them ordering me to call. I'm very tempted to do this next time...

http://youtu.be/4PxJ2L6yX-8

I just watched above link. Thanks for the laugh!

Thanks for the laugh!

Haha!
Healing doesn't mean the damage never existed. It means the damage no longer controls our lives.

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Souz

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 10:54:13 PM »
I completely relate to the guilt and anxiety. My mom also comes across very sweet. And she is sweet sometimes. Other times she's not, and she doesn't seem to be able to recognize when she says or does hurtful things.  The "good times" are what give me a lot of struggle. They were just as real as the bad times. I keep telling myself that almost every abusive relationship has good times. If it was all bad, it would be easier to cut the tie. I think of how many people stay with an abusive partner because "he/she is not always like this". I am only 4 months into NC and have a long way to go before I will feel better I suspect. My therapist has been focusing on the intellectual side of things to try to alleviate the guilt. Understanding why I shouldn't feel guilty. She said this week that my next session we will work on the emotional side of reducing guilt. If I gain any good tips, I'll share them. 
Be brave enough to break your own heart - Cheryl Strayed

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all4peace

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 11:03:16 PM »
In the beginning of my journey, I often forgot that I could change my mind. For example, I felt like I had to choose either normal contact or low contact, forever and ever and ever. You are allowed to ask for a "time out" right now to think, process, heal, calm down. You can explain your reasons as much or as little as you want. Your family's response to your request (should you choose to make it) would tell you a lot about their ability to respect your wishes.

And one more vote for listening to your heart, mind and body. I'm belatedly grateful that my body simply couldn't take it any more and gave me permission to make some changes. Best wishes to you!

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jenizen

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2016, 03:30:57 PM »
 :yeahthat:

Yes! This is so accurate for me in helping navigate this process. Thank you.

We get to decide what works for us.
I sometimes think to myself "just give yourself a break - I don't need to be perfect in my processing and journey on this"

being hard on ourselves, perfectionism, fear of "rocking the boat" (in case the boom swings back and clanks us on the head)....fleas, out damn fleas
My posts here are just thoughts & opinions based on my personal experience.  After so long in FOG I'm honouring & accepting me & all of my emotions in my process. Peace & healing on your unique journey. (bipolar, schizo-affective, N,BPDMother & Covert N enFather & 2 B's living with schizo-affective)

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Sidney37

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2016, 03:41:56 PM »
In the beginning of my journey, I often forgot that I could change my mind. For example, I felt like I had to choose either normal contact or low contact, forever and ever and ever. You are allowed to ask for a "time out" right now to think, process, heal, calm down. You can explain your reasons as much or as little as you want. Your family's response to your request (should you choose to make it) would tell you a lot about their ability to respect your wishes.

And one more vote for listening to your heart, mind and body. I'm belatedly grateful that my body simply couldn't take it any more and gave me permission to make some changes. Best wishes to you!
:yeahthat:
I think this is the advice you gave to me months ago when I was coming OOTF.  It was some of the best advice I got in those months.  Thank you.  I think we have been trained by our PD parents that we can't make mistakes and changing our minds means that the first decision was a mistake.  We can absolutely change our minds.  I went from getting the silent treatment from her, to no contact, to very limited contact, to too much contact and now back to VLC.  I might end up NC at some point.  Those weren't mistakes.  Those were choices that I made and I'm allowed to change them again if I want. 

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jenizen

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2016, 04:37:01 PM »
 :yeahthat:

I used to be so hard on myself if I changed my mind about anything. 

So then, of course I was so paralyzed to make some decisions in the first place. And whew, the idea of setting contact boundaries...yikes...  The anxiety and turmoil involved to ensure "I was making the right decision forever and ever" was too overwhelming. I try to be much more understanding of myself and my process now.
it's an organic process and flexes with how I feel / how my body and mind respond and that is just fine with me, myself and I.

Contact boundaries are vital to my health and well-being. I know for me, I've got to keep the cortisol down...that stuff going on all the time is not good...I want to retrain my brain...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201507/cortisol-and-oxytocin-hardwire-fear-based-memories

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/stress-management/in-depth/stress/art-20046037/
My posts here are just thoughts & opinions based on my personal experience.  After so long in FOG I'm honouring & accepting me & all of my emotions in my process. Peace & healing on your unique journey. (bipolar, schizo-affective, N,BPDMother & Covert N enFather & 2 B's living with schizo-affective)

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stephoney

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 12:10:57 PM »
I just have one question? Would someone that loves you want you to feel guilty? Relationships are not supose to be painful. This is just my opinion of course, but once ww are grown, make your own choices and be who you want to be. As far as family goes, tell them to treat you how you want to be treated, the end. You should expect no less than being treated decent and with repect. If they dont like it, then move on. Life is to short, or could be way to long to spend with people who use you as a doormat. 45 years ago, before i was born, a cousin of mine moved several states away. He joined the military, got his own family and never returned. Occassionally a postcard. I found out later he had parents just like mine. He used the vietnam war as a way of escape. I admire whay he did. Many family members bad mouthed him for it. But he was and is a grown man. His obligation is to himself and his new family. He inspired me to do the same. My FOC is much better. Suportive and loving. I would never let my son around my toxic mother. She has tried i guess all she can think of with me. Hovering, sympathy, guilt, whatever. It all fell on deaf ears with me. If she wanted me to be part of her family she should have thought of that before she manipulated, lied, stole from me and others. Bad mouthed and lied about my husband and my infant child. Told me she hated me, etc, etc. Words cant be taken back, nor the past. We all learn about consequences early on, but not her, she let other people pay for hers. My father, my grandparents, etc. I wont do it and my child wont either. She can now lay in the bed she made for herself. I know i probably shouldnt but i take a certain delight knowing god is now making her face the music alone for all of her sins. My father and grandparents now dead and me the only daughter that spoke up to her, told her she was dead wrong and that i had no intentions of putting up with her. The way i see it, people can treat me with kindness and love, or they can hit the road. No exceptions or apologies for that. Dont feel guilty for wanting to be treated with kindness.

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lovingheart

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2016, 12:44:25 PM »
Thank you all so much!

She's still calling of course but in all honesty... She's making things worse for herself. I want to be left alone. So many years of not respecting my boundaries and getting into my business is in all honesty what caused a lot of this... It's been nearly 9 months. I clearly want to be left alone... How is this not obvious. I happen to listen to one of her voicemails last Sunday because I didn't know who it was... She tried to guilt trip me into calling my enF.
I do get what a lot of y'all are saying... Why would you want anyone in your life that all they do is guilt you, make you feel bad, or cause anxiety? Just because they are family, you're supposed to allow it? NO! I'm not allowing this at all. I don't have to. I'm my own person and if one of them dies and I'm not around... I will feel horrible but they didn't try to change when I was at home and when I was trying.
Enough is enough and I'm tired.
I can say that the fear of being found is slowly going away. The fear of running into them isn't as bad as before. Since I've gone NC, their effect on me is slowly but surely becoming less and less. I'm finally surrounded by good and relatively normal people... It's not about choosing them over my own family, it's about choosing sanity over insanity.
Healing doesn't mean the damage never existed. It means the damage no longer controls our lives.

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edelweiss

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Re: Nothing new... Constant calling and Voicemails...
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2016, 01:38:18 PM »
You're not alone. I just had a guilt-inducing voicemail from my undiagnosed NPD mother today. My initial feelings and reaction to it were exactly what you described: was it really that bad, maybe this (NC) has gone on long enough, the guilt... guilt... guilt...

It's been two years of NC with my FOO, and even with all the reading, thinking, and work on myself that I've done, I still instinctively feel that guilt. As usual for this forum you've had some great responses so far, they've helped me calm down too.

I keep reminding myself that her entire 5 minute message was all about what I'm "doing to them", how this (NC) is "hurting them", etc.. That pretty much proves the point, doesn't it? It's always about them.