Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?

  • 18 Replies
  • 1584 Views
*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« on: March 18, 2016, 04:29:07 PM »
Last month my stbxh was insisting on returning to MC.  I refused because I knew it was not only a waste of time, it was highly frustrating to me during our past sessions to sit there and listen to him lie to the T.  Then when I would tell the T that my husband was lying, I was made to feel like I was the "bad" guy.  I was told by the T that I couldn't accuse my H of lying - and my H would whine to the T about how his version of events was not a lie but a genuine "perception" of how things happened.

So, he was insisting on more MC, even though he now lives clear across the country and is only in back in town for short periods of time.  I assumed that was another way of hoovering me as well, as he knew perfectly well we would never be able to attend anyways.  At that time I gave him an ultimatum - I told him no MC until he was fully honest and admitted his wrong doings, lying, and abusive behaviours., and gave me a truly heartfelt apology for those things.  (which I knew he would NEVER do, and I was right about that).

So he was back in town last week and told me he now started individual counselling.  So far he has only gone to one session.  I told him that was good, but unless he was ready to be fully honest with the T, that he wouldn't benefit from it.

Anyone else experience this with their ex?  Did they actually end up changing after therapy, or did they just attend for a little while and drop out?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 04:31:10 PM by waking up »

*

Rocket Girl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 602
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2016, 06:21:11 PM »
My ex n/bpd had 5 therapists that I know of before he met the last one.  he seemed to like and trust her, but she made him look at things about himself he didn't want to see.  After he figured out he couldn't baffle her with his southern charm, he quit going.

A lot of these pd's have compartmentalized their feelings; it's how they survive.  The therapy makes them feel vulnerable and they just cannot do it, in my experience.   Mine did not change.  Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear.
- Rocket Girl

I will take my broken heart any day over his lack of one.

You don't have to be hit to be hurt.

*

mdana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 2106
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2016, 01:46:23 AM »
Yup ....

My ex went to a therapist (individually) off and on for about 2 years...(maybe 1..).  He would come home and say things like "my therapist thinks I'm a co-dependent....and that you're too controlling"... "My therapist says that ..." And, that went on and on and on.  Once he admitted that his therapist told him having affairs was deceptive, destructive, and hurtful (he had plenty)...but, the remorse around that lasted ....maybe... 1 week. AND, it was followed with "but... of course, I wouldn't have done that if you weren't so ...."

Basically, he saw the therapist to get justification for what he wanted to do because of course he only told his therapist what he wanted him to know.

We saw a Family therapist for a while too... AND, for a short time he appeared to want to "work" hard. But...it eroded. 

He made some short term changes (there was motive of course) AND...the changes didn't last.  Shocker, right?  :aaauuugh:
M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2016, 01:11:06 PM »
Thanks for the replies. Sorry to hear therapy didnt work for you but that was pretty much what I expected to hear.
Yesterday I sent H an email suggesting that he should tell his T about some of things that happened during previous MC ( that he lied during sessions)  This was a reply to his email to me telling me he was now going to stop being adversarial with me, which I understand to mean he just doesnt want to answer any of the questions I have asked him. Sounds like a way to avoid taking responsibility( once again).

The question that he has really avoided answering is telling why he snuck away from me and the kids during a camping trip to make an hour long phone call on a pay phone. When we went on a search and found him on the phone he quickly hung up....he was extremely angry with us and refused to tell me who he was talking to. BTW he strongly denies having an affair....he keeps saying he cant remember who he called but it must have been his workplace.
I have pushing him for an honest answer to this for a very long time.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 01:14:42 PM by waking up »

*

mdana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 2106
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 10:53:56 PM »
Waking up...

So, my ex had MANY affairs the entire time!  AND, I found all sorts of irregularities through the years and he ALWAYS 110% of the time denied ANY affairs, friendships, sex, meetings, phone calls  with any women.  HE denied them ...even when I showed him the evidence (I found a Valentines day card from a woman once). To the V card he said, "it was a misunderstanding...she fell in love with me...and because I wouldn't do anything with her, she did this to get me in trouble so that you would find it"

I could post so many stories that it would make your head spin!  YEARS ...later... it all added up and my instincts were flawless each time.  Once (when he was drunk) he admitted everything to me and then (when he sobered up) he said not only that he didn't remember, but that it was bogus.  EXCEPT, all the details matched up perfectly (dates, times, names).
 
Anyway ... what I learned was to trust my instincts.  Turns out, my instincts have almost always been spot on!  :yes:

XOXOX
M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2016, 04:20:38 AM »
Thanks, Mdana

That is EXACTLY what I am trying to do more of lately - trust my own intuition and instincts.  I actually had something happen recently (not with my H, but with another group of people) where I found out  they have gone behind my back and lied to me and about me.  My intuition told me something wasn't right months ago, but I just couldn't believe that they would behave this way, so I doubted myself.  Finally I found out I had been right all along.

I think it's like that with my H as well.  I just couldn't bring myself to believe that he would cheat, so I always dismissed everything that seemed out of the ordinary as just my imagination, or maybe I was being paranoid. Finally I started putting the pieces together and realized that something wasn't right.  But he still adamantly denies cheating.  But liars will say anything and as a co-worker remarked to me, - "look at those guys on that show, Cops,  They're caught with drugs in their pocket and they will deny that it's theirs and claim they have no idea how it got in their pocket". So even when they are caught red-handed with the evidence, these liars will still try and deny everything.

So even if you had taped your H confessing to his affairs he probably would have had some excuse for that as well.   ;D

It's kind of funny that my H told me  story similar to the one your H told you, about the co-worker I believe he was having an affair with - he said she had a crush on him and that was why she constantly phoning here asking him needless questions about work, and that was why she was so inexplicably rude to me. But by his accounts he was a good guy who would never cheat so apparently this women was a little crazy - chasing after a married man who never returned her affections.  Funny how stuff like that happens to these guys.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 04:22:55 AM by waking up »

*

Hikercymru

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 579
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 02:10:29 PM »
Waking up and mdana.
Yes my ex had countless irregularities and would always deny them. I didn't check his phone regularly but on three occasions I had a hunch and three times I found messages of other women. Never got the truth out of him and it was always them not him. He had deleted his messages and their previous messages. So I would find something like: I miss you XXX
And then get some bull shit story. Makes me angry at myself for putting up with this!!!!
So as you say we need to trust our instincts.
Found out he regularly checked my phone and laptop. Only couldn't find anything. Because he couldn't be trusted he didn't trust me. Says it all  :sadno:

*

mdana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 2106
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2016, 03:02:17 PM »

OHHHH, my ex used to regularly check my phone too!  Once (while I was sleeping) he locked it (after attempting too many incorrect passcode).  I never used a passcode, except we had just traveled abroad and thought it was safer.   THEN, I read in an article somewhere (and my therapist told me) that men that cheat are paranoid about that being done to them, and checking their mate's phone's is a "classic" sign that they are cheating.

I get so angry at myself too, for being so naive, and in denial. My son and I talk about how powerful and destructive denial really is.

There's a song that my sister turned me onto years ago. I won't post the link here cause it's goofy and a bit crude, although not my modern standards I guess! I don't like the music or the lyrics, but it sums up their behavior. My sister felt so frustrated with me I guess that she sent me the link years ago.  It's called "It wasn't me" by Shaggy. 

Well...Thank God...we are free of that now!
XOXO


M

M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 02:33:19 AM »
He checked my phone andmy computer. Once I was having a nap and he thought I  was still asleep and I opened my eyes and saw he was putting my phone back in my purse...

I noticed on my computer he had looked at my search history. Then he went into a blog I had commented on and flipped out on me. I actually had told him about this blog so it wasnt really a secret but it seems he didnt like what I had written.

Sounds like these guys have all taken the same class, doesnt it?

*

unicorn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 444
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2016, 07:21:18 AM »
My H would like for me to go to counseling with him.  When I asked him for a divorce, he then said he didn't want to go to counseling because there was no point and he wouldn't pay for it.  My T has told me that perhaps going to counseling with him would help to either build communication to help discuss dismantling the marriage or coparenting. In that respect I wouldn't mind paying for it, but I can't help but think that this will in fact be a waste of all of our time (and my money - of which i am saving every penny for my atty retainer).

Also my H constantly accused me of cheating and I have seen him in the past check my phone and computer. I always wondered about him having an affair, but I truly never caught him doing anything and he was always so insecure and awkward with others that I couldnt really imagine it, but I always wondered.

I am waiting on pins and needles to see how fast he starts dating a new person.

*

mdana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 2106
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2016, 04:41:35 PM »
Unicorn...

My experience has been that counseling for any purpose with PD (relationship, co-parenting...etc...) is pretty useless, and potentially destructive to you/your case.  Pd's will use those sessions to manipulate, trap you, and gather information that can be used against you.  Finding a solid therapist that KNOWS PD's and has experience with them (not just text book experience) is so difficult (impossible over here where I live).  I did it, thinking it would work (naive) and also thinking it would show good faith with the courts. 

But of course... you have to decide this for yourself. 

If I were you ... I would release myself from pins and needs around your H dating and just assume he will (right away) or already is.  It's such a painful shock anyway (when you end up knowing or seeing it).  Even if he waited 6 months or 1 year ...it's still gonna be painful to witness.

xoxoxo

M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

*

Rocket Girl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 602
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 04:57:44 PM »
Hi Waking Up.  I am watching my ex date again.  He lives very near by and I can't help but see his driveway from my house.  I pull my blinds and try not to look, but it makes me mad I have to do that. 

He has had a woman at his house for the past two weeks.  My mind is going crazy on itself assuming they are madly in love and discussing marriage.  When does this hell end? 

sorry, I hope it goes easier for you when the time comes, but expect it to be traumatic. 

BTW, I secretly think he is getting a big kick out of having her car in his driveway where I can see it.  He was aggressively hoovering right before she showed up.  He had a habit of hoovering me, getting me back into his life, then days later, showing up with a woman to flaunt in my face.  I finally told him enough, and went no contact, but I can't help but think he is enjoying thinking about me hurting.  What a vicious person.   I know he had severe abuse as a child and had a mother that was very uN/BPD, but why take it out on people who's only goal was to love him?
- Rocket Girl

I will take my broken heart any day over his lack of one.

You don't have to be hit to be hurt.

*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2016, 11:48:41 PM »
Maybe we just have to get to that point where we say to  ourself that we married an *sshole and just accept that.e Maybe we  need to a realize that no matter how many good points these guys may have on occasion - deep down they are just total jerks and will never change. And realize that we are so much better off without them in our life.

*

A_newlife2014

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1041
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2016, 12:49:32 AM »
 :yeahthat:

Also, have you considered that he's not even attending therapy at all, but lying about that too?

*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2016, 03:45:32 PM »
I think he is telling the truth about therapy.  In the past all his lies have been lies to avoid taking responsibility for bad behavior, or because he couldn't admit to making a mistake.  So he would either pretend he couldn't remember certain things, or twist the truth around to make himself look better, or sometimes he would just verbally attack me so that I would stop asking questions.  He isn't one to fabricate stories except for the few he's fabricated to avoid responsibility, (though on occasion when he's very drunk, he has told some totally fabricated stories).  I think he's smart enough to realize that the more lies he tell the more the weaves a tangled web.

Of course he has only started therapy and so far has just gone to one session.....so we will see what happens.

*

Hoolio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 234
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2016, 10:03:41 AM »
During a divorce mediaton my uBPD ex W told me (and the mediator) with a big smile on her face that she lied to me about attending a therapist (I was pleased and hopeful when I heard that she was) and instead, she had been going to have acupuncture!  :sand:

She acted smug about pulling off this deception.

 :thumb down

She will do anything but look inwards at the childhood events that haunt her everyday, uBPD life.

I am an ex husband of uBPD wife. Co parenting 2 children. Good luck to us all here!  Glad to be OOTF and rebuilding my life!

*

mdana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 2106
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2016, 12:58:36 PM »
Yea...
That's what I have understood about people with PD's ... that the pain of looking internally to actually do the work of healing and growth is too great and they are unable to do it ( I am sure there are exceptions, but I have never really known of any). 

I guess we are lucky ...those of us that can go internally to do the painful work. 
 :yes:

During a divorce mediaton my uBPD ex W told me (and the mediator) with a big smile on her face that she lied to me about attending a therapist (I was pleased and hopeful when I heard that she was) and instead, she had been going to have acupuncture!  :sand:

She acted smug about pulling off this deception.

 :thumb down

She will do anything but look inwards at the childhood events that haunt her everyday, uBPD life.


Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

*

waking up

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 924
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2016, 12:02:29 AM »
Interesting.  Some people may repress painful memories because those memories are too painful to deal with, but that doesn't make them behave the way PD's behave.  Those people are still able to admit to their mistakes, accept responsibility, tell the truth....basically behave like normal people. So there must be something more than just being to weak to handle facing a painful childhood that makes them behave like they do. Seems to me it stems more from a lack of empathy than anything else.  And even though some PD did have painful childhoods - I doubt if all PD's have. What do others here think - did  the PD's in their life all have painful childhood's or  have suffered from abuse?

*

Hoolio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 234
Re: Husband now starting individual therapy - hoovering?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2016, 08:36:34 AM »
:yeahthat:

Also, have you considered that he's not even attending therapy at all, but lying about that too?

Yep

My Stb uBPD ex W cancelled our couples therapy sessions. As we started mediation and court was an upcoming possibility she announced to me that she was returning solo to our therapist (who was also a fully qualified, practicing psychiatrist)  she had been offered solo session on the condition that we halt couple cancelling.

I was delighted and (foolishly) felt some hope.

Then in a divorce mediation session she smugly revealed her deception and announced that that she wasn't in fact seeing the therapist but was actually seeing a "holistic healer / homeopath" instead.  :roll:

Anything but facing her inner issues.

I am an ex husband of uBPD wife. Co parenting 2 children. Good luck to us all here!  Glad to be OOTF and rebuilding my life!