Idea for getting out sanely and safely

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chocolateraspberry

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Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« on: March 25, 2016, 06:07:16 PM »
I've spent the past several years waking up, getting Out of the FOG, and seeing clearly the dynamics of mynrelationship. Repeatedly, my husband shows signs of ASPD. Patterns of lying, hiding, using me for money, lack of responsibility, blaming me for why he doesnt contribute, guilt trips, fantasies about violence, sexual promiscuity (rampant porn, cybersex, etc) and most critically, use of the pity play, over and over. Discussions, despite my attempts to use mature, calm and focused communication techniques, never go anywhere toward a resolution. Problems do not get resolved. Avoidance is high.

My clarity now means I see I need to get out of this relationship. Two things prevent me from filing:

1. i dont trust me. I dont trust I wont cave or buckle under his emotional ploys. Even after working hard on becoming strong, his energy still affects me.

2. I dont trust him. While I dont think he'll get physically violent, I do think he will become quite threatening verbally. I have seen him punch a wall and drive aggressively when very stressed or angry.

We have no children. The home is in my name only but is considered marital property for division purposes. I am not worried about the home (see cash assets, below, which offset any stake he has in home equity).

My idea/plan:
He is originally from another country (a non-Hague convention one, for anyone who understands what that means), and one of these months he'll want to return for a visit. I want to find a way to suggest he go back alone, and spend quality time with his family for several weeks while I remain back at home.

While he is gone, I can assess whether I truly feel healthier alone, and if so, notify him calmly by email I dont want him to return and will be sending filing paperwork, and am happy to send back his belongings with care.

My thought is this protects me on multiple levels, and avoids a frustrating, possibly dangerous confrontation.

The serving of papers is the biggest issue I see because his country doesn't belong to the Hague convention rules. But I think if I show enough prudent effort in my jurisdiction, that is what matters.

Another issue is 70% of our cash is in his name, but I have access to the accounts, and have an account shared at one bank that I could transfer into, then transfer again into a solo account of my own. Im not sure if this is legal, but they are absolutely marital funds.

I've found a great attorney but didnt think of this idea until,after our initial free consulation, so I havent run it by anyone legally yet.

Im seeking validation, as well as "you might want to think about..." type feedback. Mostly it helps to get this out and be heard.

Thank you for reading.

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InTheDarkness

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 07:01:15 PM »
chocolateraspberry,

I've not made any moves, yet, though I have selected an attorney.  Planning is important, but I've also read of women and men who just threw some clothes, medicines and other essentials into a bag and just got in the car or caught a cab and headed to a friend's place or a motel.   The bank account issue is the same for me.  I'm on wife's account but she's not on mine.  Don't know if there are legal repercussions if you withdrew money, though if your name is on the account, it's not as if you're forging a signature.

I just wanted to comment.  If there's time to think things through, that can be good, but like you, I have to have the courage to make the first step, which for me, is consulting an attorney.   Stay resolute, even in the face of fear.

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chocolateraspberry

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2016, 07:05:47 PM »
Don't know if there are legal repercussions if you withdrew money, though if your name is on the account, it's not as if you're forging a signature.

My theory (without any legal backup) is if husband willingly gave me electronic access (pw etc) to account, and knowingly kept a joint account of ours linked at the same institution, that constitutes permission. I probably need to look into whether I could be charged with fraud.

Quote
I just wanted to comment.  If there's time to think things through, that can be good, but like you, I have to have the courage to make the first step, which for me, is consulting an attorney.   Stay resolute, even in the face of fear.

Thank you. When I first googled divorce two years ago, I was terrified. And contacting the first attorney a few months later? Equally terrifying. I get it, and agree. I think if we make small, brave, tiny steps each day, we can do this.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 07:20:23 PM by chocolateraspberry »

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hhaw

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2016, 07:12:18 PM »
My ASPD N husband stole 80K and the police wouldn't even take a report until it was brought up before the civil court as contempt charge.

When you;'re married, it's not considered theft..... and the pd's clear out the accounts iwthout problem or reservations when we let them know we're leaving so.... you do it first, and don't let him know you plan to file for heavens sake till you have all your ducks in a row.

Once he knows he'll throw up road blocks, and sabotages like you can't imagine, so get all bank accounts separated, take what money is yours, make safe important papers and things you can't replace, and expect him to do things you'd never ever ever do to another human being.... lie, cheat and steal.  Make up erroneous stories about you to discredit, and punish you.

Even if you treat him fairly, and with compassion..... he'll turn on you, and treat you like an enemy  who must be destroyed if he's ASPD or similar pd. IME.

Speak to an attorney about your options.  You might do well to sell the house while the pd is out of the Country.  You might have options I don't know about, but it sounds like you're ready to go, and start trusting yourself.

Good luck,
hhaw
hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

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chocolateraspberry

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 09:32:05 PM »
Hhaw, thanks for your hard-earned wisdom.

Care to nut out a strategy with me?

One angle I'm comsidering is NOT accessing the money in his name, effectively leaving him around 70k more in assets than me.

And then, writing the settlement proposal as that. Period. In other words, a more than reasonable offer, highly favorable toward him, and instruct attorney that is my only and final offer. No negotiations, force to court if he balks.

Why?

Because the 70k can be easily eaten up but his foot dragging BS. By offering a settlement far more fair to him than I, I lower the chance of a judge asking us to return to a drawn-out negotiation table. I mean, what's there to negotiate if Ive handed him a proverbial farm?

I recognize pds sont want the easy win, even if it benefits them. They savor the fight, and hate the rejection/injury. However, I am ready to move the hell on with my life.

Would appreciate any feedback on this as a psychological and tactical strategy. FWIW, alimony is minimal in my state, and I have decent earnings capacity for years to come. With him out of my hair (he costs me at least $7,500 a year)I could likely save up a lot of cash, quickly.  And no, I dont plan on saying a word to him until every duck is neatly lined up :)

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hhaw

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 11:32:34 PM »
Hhaw, thanks for your hard-earned wisdom.

Care to nut out a strategy with me?

One angle I'm considering is NOT accessing the money in his name, effectively leaving him around 70k more in assets than me.

And then, writing the settlement proposal as that. Period. In other words, a more than reasonable offer, highly favorable toward him, and instruct attorney that is my only and final offer. No negotiations, force to court if he balks.

Why?

Because the 70k can be easily eaten up but his foot dragging BS. By offering a settlement far more fair to him than I, I lower the chance of a judge asking us to return to a drawn-out negotiation table. I mean, what's there to negotiate if Ive handed him...

OK.... here's the problem with your logic, which looks perfectly reasonable TO ME. 

It's logical.

IF your stbx is ASPD or pd then he's not going to approach divorce logically.  It's about winning, and punishing you, and ruining you, even if it ruins him, IME.  Not only that.... if you allege anything, and sometimes just wanting out is allegation enough, then he'll likely feel obligated to discredit you AND destroy you on every level you can fathom.  THAT'S typically what you're up against when you divorce an ASPD....... and sometimes that's the best case scenario if they're the type of ASPD that employs a scorched earth policy that leaves you injured, or dead.  You're picturing being diminished financially...... ASPD's make sure you're not only broken/in debt, they also typically want you living in fear, and under siege.

I say think like a pd, and cover your arse like the pd will cover his once you've filed the divorce.  If you take everything, you can hand over something in order to gain HIS compliance.  If he has zero dollars for an attorney, maybe you can get away with giving him a far larger settlement than you get, and avoid court.  If he has money to hire an attorney, and squander everything you both own fighthing over a 40.00 dish, a sales contract on the house he won't let go through, and your IRA then typcal ASPD's will fight till you're both in debt up to your ears. 


Would appreciate any feedback on this as a psychological and tactical strategy. FWIW, alimony is minimal in my state, and I have decent earnings capacity for years to come. With him out of my hair (he costs me at least $7,500 a year)I could likely save up a lot of cash, quickly.  And no, I dont plan on saying a word to him until every duck is neatly lined up :)  I'm wondering if you can file for the divorce, NOT TELL HIM, advertise it in the paper, then have it go through before he even knows what hit him.  That looks bad to read, but you could put his share of the estate into an account, more than fair.... whatever makes you feel better, and maybe have done with. 

How long is he out of the Country for?  Honestly, it's demoralizing to offer them something overtly fair, bend over backwards, then waaaaay ore than fair, then have them fight about it, then the details of it, then say they're going to Court anyway, prepare for battle, then have them say they;ll settle, then you stop doing trial prep, then they say they won't settle, and you continue adding more to the deal, then they say yes, then they wait till trial is approaching again and say they'll settle, the they hash out a deal, then they refuse to sign and you go to court anyway, and have nothing to pay an attorney with unless you borrow it.

My attorneys cost 100K and I got cheated out of a trial by everyone, including my own attorney.  One thing you'll likely notice, if you get dragged into a court situation with an ASPD, is that they don't negotiate, they aren't level, and they aren't rational.   That typically means that everyone in the room, including your own attorney, is looking at you to do all the giving and compromising, bc they know in their hearts the pd won't ever ever ever ever ever make a move that's smart, level or rational, bc he's pathologically unable to  settle ANYTHING.  IME, of course.

IF ypu're determined to put together a deal, and hope the pd takes it to avoid court, then I'd suggest keeping everything in your pile, bc you know you'll do what's right, and not jerk the rug out from under the pd when the deal is done.   

I see pd's refuse to pay child support, or any support through months and sometimes years of divorce.  You don't have to hand him everything and hope you look fair, bc in the end no one cares if you're getting smeared in every way by the pd, IME.

Just cover your own arse, and know you can always be kind, compassionate, giving once the deal is done.  What you can't do is go back and undo a kindness/fairness that puts you square in the middle of a year or two's worth of divorce court, and I have to tell you..... I still owe 30K to my second divorce attorney for negotiating an Agreement that was written into the Court record, and had no wiggle damn room.  Not only that, my ASPD N wasn't going to pay a dime of the settlement, just like I said he wouldn't.  He was planning to flee the Country with everything, kill me on his way out, and leave our children in I don't know what state...... it's terrifying to contemplate.

I'm not saying your suspected ASPD will do any of the things I've seen close up..... I was choked, threatened, terrorized, stalked, and robbed of my premarital home, and every dime I had by my ASPD, and no one cared.  They still don't.  MY PRE MARITAL HOME!  Stolen, and my attorney allowed it all, gthen claimed he had no way to see it coming, even though I warned him over and over and over again while he told me that I should stop looking bitchy, bc men don't like bitchy looking women.... I needed to "make peace with the fact I'd be dead if my husband wanted me dead."
" If he really was a criminal there was nothing my attorney or the system could do about it. "

Try to wrap your mind around having a wonderful life ONE day, and the next you can't breath bc the husband you never thought would put his hands on you almost killed you by choking you off your feet with your children in the next room, then, when he does release you, he looks like a maniac who's plotting how he and the monster in his head are going to dismember you and dispose of your body.  THAT wasn't what I thought was going to happen when divorce came up an hour before in my lovely little pre marital home where I knew I'd be OK once I divorced my husband, and I knew I could be OK without him, and raise my children just fine as a divorced woman.

When an ASPD feels threatened they blame and strike out.  They do things you could never ever ever see coming, and typically the courts force us to make ourselves available and vulnerable.  You don't have children, so you should be able to work this out just fine.  Read some threads here to see badly things can go, and how well. 

There are many, and everyone has some experience to broaden your horizons, and give you an idea of how badly things can go, and often do.

You should get the leverage up front, and use it to give the pd a fair deal.  He'll likely portray you as a thief and a criminal, and himself as the victim, even though you're proposing a settlement that gives him much more  than you're receiving, it's just that he'll need to control you, perhaps get you to stay in the marriage, and certainly punish you, to what extent I can't know, and likely neither can you till you're in it.

Assume the best case scenario, but  plan for the worst is my opinion.  I'd have consultations with the very best attorneys in your County, and propose every scenario that comes to mind in order to shorten the divorce process.  Just don't assume you're pd won't stalk you, harm you, or insist on making you broke bc you're giving him a more than fair deal.  They don't see life like that.  If he's really pd he's going to be injured in a way that calls for war, and he won't care what that war costs him as long as you're destroyed.

If he's just a wee bit pd, and likes money more than he needs to punish you..... maybe he's not really that pd, and you'll get lucky.

Just so you know.... my ASPD was a liar, a cheat, a manipulator, and he liked to garner pity.... pity from everyone for everything.  He told stories about me to everyone, and he tailored them to his audience.  He needed everyone to feel sorry for him, and used women... had a stable, belonged to countless dating sights, some for divorced dad's, bc he ranked women by their vulnerabilities, and portrayed himself as a victim always..... divorced women, divorced from a divorced home, divorced from a divorced home WITH children.... that's how he ranked them, and you know what?

I just thought he was a sex addict at first, or an addict of something I never saw, but he was something else. Not an N, which I suspected at first also.  Not just a sex addict, but an ASPD with heavy N features, and I learned not to assume anything when dealing with PD';s.  Ever.

Cover your arse.  Expect pd behavior form a pd.  Separate your accounts, and deal with your house while he's away at the very least, is my advice..... check with an attorney, but don't whatever you do, try to play fair, and assume the pd will appreciate it, and play fair back.

Like I said,, you can always do the right thing, but you can't go back, and undo a kindness that ends up costing you months and tens of thousands of dollars, and all your cherished family photos, and favorite painting your Aunt painted for you, but now it's gone bc the pd has it, and he's using it to leverage you into giving him all the money, the house, and 6 years of alimony, and your entire IRA, plus both vehicles, and your aprons.  I'm not kidding.... one poster here had her wealthy husband ask for her aprons.  He wanted EVERYTHING, even the things that were obviously hers, and he didn't have any problem swearing to the Court and his attorney and all the people on his side who knew he was lying, that those items were his, along with EVERYTHING THEY OWNED, and asking the Court to give those things to him.

Your divorce is likely to take a long time, be expensive, and cause you much trauma.  My father would say.... "Why should your divorce be different than everyone else's?"

I don't think pd divorces are like everyone else's.  I think we're held hostage, cheated, victimized in the Court system, at risk, and vulnerable as hell in ways we can't fathom till we're in it, IME.

I didn't see it coming.  I thought I was strong enough to handle anything..... I was wrong. 

Ask for help making a good plan.  Ask wise, centered, rational advocates to help you stick to that plan, and make sure you aren't dependent on the pd for anything.... that you're the one he's depending on to make good on a deal that settles all.

IF YOU TRY TO SETTLE< and you change up your exit plan it will cost you sometihng, add time, add expense, and weaken you bargaining position IF YOU GIVE IN BEFORE HE HANDLES HIS END OF THE BARGAIN.  I don't know what's in their pd dna, but they all seem to KNOW that they can jerk us around with offers to settle they'll never honor, then we do what we said we'd do, they don't and we end up having to start over again and again.  I mean.... we start trial prep again, we start the settlement discussions again, over and over if the pd's have any say, and since we're very nice fair people we give them all the rope they need to hang everyone, typcially.

How can you, looking at your situation, stop your stbx from gaining a position to add time, trauma and expense.  If all you want is out, how can you give him what he wants BUT LIMIT HIS ABILITY TO JERK YOU AROUND OVER IT FOR AS LONG AS THE MARITAL ASSETS HOLD OUT?

How can you limit his ability to drag it out, punish you, make up stupid stories about you that actually make far more sense than the truth.....
that he's a pd doing irrational things that are self destructive to the point no one involved would ever believe you didn't DO something to him to make him act that way.

And that's typically where we start when we begin the divorce process with an ASPD, IME.

And you know what?  People are stupid.  They like gossip, and in every single Court expreience you have with your pd he'll manage to manipulate some ONE or more court officers so you're coming out of your skin dreading what it will mean for you, then when it's all said and done you'll see that he actually shot himself in the foot, bc he can't fool everyone all the time, and eventually all his crap will backfire on him and show the really important people who he is, and who you are.  Most of teh time the Judge's don't care, and they punish everyone bc they're ticked off the court's time was wasted.

Sometimes they punish the pd, but sometimes they punish the victim bc they're stupid, and jaded, and someone got to them and they're the court officer who was manipulated.  I've had it every way it can happen.... GAL, Judge, ADA, Court Appointed Therapist, Trustee, my own counsel...... my pd's have managed to get to someone important in EVERY SINGLE MATTER before the court, and that's just a fact. 

They're good liars, and when they aren't they hire good lawyers to do it for them.

These are facts to consider when you're putting together your exit strategy.

Remember, it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission..... esp when dealing with a pd in divorce court.  The worst that can happen is the court forces you to give what's fair to the pd IF THE PD DOESN'T have enough money to fight you to the death for that 40.00 dish, and all your stuff, right?

If his ego is on the line... if he has to WIN.... you'll be in Court for a pretty long time anyway.... even if you give him everything, and promise him years of your salary just to get free, IME.

I've said everything I think is important at least twice now.

Please don't underestimate how large a nightmare divorcing a pd can be.  It's a mistake every time, and no one will look at you in your world and feel sorry for you if you end up fearful, and bent over backwards with another year of paying attorneys, and maybe having your pd mess with your job, all your friends, nad family and maybe even give you something to cry about if you aren't already.

I hope that looks ominous, bc it should be.

Remember..... pd's aren't rational.  They tell stories about us that make sense, and the pd story WILL NEVER MAKE SENSE.  To anyone except maybe people who have been where you are, and the folks here... I find nurses to be pretty capable of understanding, but there will be mental health professionals who don't understand or believe the story you're going to be telling, so take care to come up with a theory of your divorce case that makes sense.  Don't go barking at everyone about all the pd crazy you've put up with..... it won't make sense, and people will ask what;s wrong with you that you stayed for it, kmim?

You want to tell a short simple story about why you want out.... people get cheating.  They get addiction.  They don't understand the lying, and irrational self sabotage, and nutsy rocksy koo koo crazy things pd's DO.  Please think your story through, and don't include anything you can't document and prove with facts that back up your story.

Don't go on and on with explanations about anything.  Keep it short.... give the hamburger, and the bun but never the condiments and the veggies, is what one of my divorce attorneys said WAY TOO LATE, IMO.  He waited till I was going to deposition to say it, and I'd already blabbed about all the threats, the abuse.... talking about hte pd crazy made me look crazy1

Don't do that to yourself.  Think out a theory of your case that makes sense, you can prove, and remember that the courts really don't give a rat's ass if someone cheats.  They won't care, so tell your story calmly, without expectation, and provide facts that lead your listeners to their own conclusions without you're telling them what they must do, must think, etc.  People will flat out sabotage you if you do that... even your own attorney can sabotage you if you tick him off, and it's not just male attorneys that do it either. 

Speak calmly.  Tell the facts that you can prove.  Don't assume your attonrey has let you down up front when you're dissapointed the first time.... sometimes the best attorneys want to shake you up, and make you feel defeated wholly before they start to work for you...... they lower your expectations at the same time motivating you to do their work for them paperwork wise, and they get a much better job out of us when we're completely broken down, and think we have to save ourselves.... it's effective.

Document all the crazy in your life before your pd sees it coming.  Get things recorded, and written down, and organized so you can find it.

I'm not saying all hell is going to break lose.... I'm just saying that's what typically happens, and you know what my father says.

Good luck,

hhaw


hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt

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divorcedfromnpd

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2016, 01:09:08 AM »
My experience in divorcing my uNPD ex-wife is that you can transfer 50% of your marital account balances into a personal account in your name only.

I agree with the other posters who have said that logic does not apply to PDs. My experience is that they will seek any means by which they can destroy you regardless of how generous a settlement offer you make.

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Sunny

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2016, 02:30:54 AM »
So well-said. My stbexN/OCPDh forced me to prepare for a simple 50/50 custody hearing for a nearly-17 y.o. THREE TIMES. This cost thousands.

Try to take hhaw's advice and figure out up front what you will be happy with. Then add 25% and be willing to negotiate.

My h is asserting all kinds of crazy s$*t about me PAYING HIM BACK for my student loans, which we paid out of our joint account about 18 years ago, and amounted to about 1/4 of one year's salary for him. Mind you I was working too, and caring for our kids!!! In no way is he entitled to a refund, and my attorney shut that down, but the threats continue...now I should pay back 1/2 of every cash gift his parents made in both our names for 20 years!!! Uh, NO. My attorney says his parents would have to separately bring a civil action against me. They are mid-80s and never ever have mentioned this. Just sayin', you may be hit with ALL KINDS of crazy "bills" for what you "stole" from them.

If you have the chance, get a good attorney, divide the accounts, get your own credit card, check your credit score, and get the paperwork done ASAP. And change the locks on the door!!! 😀 Sunny

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hhaw

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 11:59:56 AM »
I  was told I couldn't lock mhy abusive pd OUT of the house.  I also coldn't leave the house with the children after I filed the divorce, which is nuts, IMO.

Selling the house seems like a better idea if that makes sense. 

The house is marital property, and once the divorce is filed everyone is under an Order to not sell, move funds, or otherwise dispose of marital property.... not that the criminal pd's are held to that, but we likely wouldbe, IME.

The rules are written for honest folke.  We don't have it in us to run a scam, lie about it, and do what's necessary to forge documents, cheat everyone, and risk getting caught lying under oath like pd's do automatically, so cover your arse up front, ,and do everything everything possible before the pd sees this coming.

Once he sees the divorce papers.... once he knows your intention to file..... everything changes, IME.

hhaw
hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt

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chocolateraspberry

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 12:44:59 PM »
I didnt sleep very well last night :(

Im beginning to wonder if it's better to stay. Not because I'm addicted or think he can change, but all this scares me.

 :-[

I see absolutely no simple way out and kick myself for not leaving him in his home country (no, I dont have immigration obligations to fulfill any longer).

Hhaw, I love your idea about filing and having it done with while he's away, but I don't think think it will work. Our filing here is defendant has 28 days to respond after papers are served. The court will not look at paperwork or schedule any motions until 60 days after initial filing. Thr fastest route from start to finish is about 90 days, if it goes uncontested. I am pretty sure I have to try and do service on him while he's abroad, using an attorney from his country to serve him papers.

One possible idea is to take care of all money movements while he's on a plane, file, serve him abroad, and leave the city. In other words, leave my house and stay with a friend in another state, to mitigate him returning to our home/this country upon being served. He has no idea I have this friend and doesn't know where she lives. That would at least cover me in terms of safety. A lawyer told me it's fine for me to leave the home and would not  be considered abandonment. And any time he spends in the home after I file could probably be argued to be a form of spousal support already paid.

numbers:
1. Jointly we have about 70k in a joint account, which pays the bills.
2. In one account, he has about 80k in his name only, but I have access to it and the capacity to transfer that into a jount, then into my name
3. In accounts I cannot access (except just to see their balances. I can see the funds but not move them) he has around 70k in his name.
4. The house equity is about 22k.

If I pull the 70k from #2, and combine it with joint from #1 and the home equity, I'm putting more than 50% into my name. I dont know if this could screw me in terms of how a judge would see that action. I would absolutely offer a settlement that ultimately gives him back assets worth 50% or even more.

In terms of what I'd be happy with, it's this: the home equity and the joint account value (70k). That still gives him more than 50%.

It just baffles me that I cannot compel a court decision. Hhaw, in another thread I think you said the fastest track is forcing court. If I propose to the court a settlement that gives him more than 50%, if he lives in the house while I'm away, and I and refuse negotiations, why wouldn't that work? Surely in the eyes of the court I look more than fair, regardless of what drama he tries to bring.

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chocolateraspberry

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2016, 02:24:13 PM »
Ps-hhaw, thank you for your in-depth reply. It was harrowing, but appreciated.

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Sunny

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2016, 09:11:19 PM »
Hi CR, well, another possibility is that he won't file a response, and after some period of time (6 mos in my state) you can ask for a default judgement.

As for the funds, I would go with the advice of an attorney. I was told I could take up to half; any more and I'd owe him. And it may not look good to the court, even if you plan to repay him during negotiations...

Glad you have a friend you can stay with. Just make lists of things to be done and get good advice. I stayed for too long because I thought it would be really really hard to leave, but either way it's hard...at least if you leave you are one step closer to the life you want!!!

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hhaw

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2016, 09:23:06 PM »
I've never seen a pd regret taking more than their fair share.  Usually it looks like this.....

the pd gets all the money, and we end up having to borrow money to pay attonreys to defend ourselves.

The pd claims their being victimized while demanding the court give them control of all family assets..... even our pre marital items.

The pd steals EVERYTHING with no intention to pay anything, and they fight like hell for it, even though asking for EVERYTHING is unfair.... they don't care, and it seldom bites them in the arse hard, IME.

So, if you/we/the non takes more than 50%, but leaves plenty for the pd to pay an attorney, their bills, and living expenses with no hardship the Judge is going to work out a fair settlement in the end, and I assure you it won't make any difference..... join marital funds are joint martial funds.... you can't steal them if you're married, and any court will look at you with disgusted apathy, and assure you of that if it happens to you.

If you do it to the pd, it won't mean much, esp since you're not planning to flee the country and skip out on a Judge's Order to pay the pd what's fair in that Judge's opinion.

You're up against a possible ASPD so prepare for the worst.  Prepare to document all communications, record (is it legal in your State?) and keep yourself safe.   Go to all e mail communication once you file, so you don't have the lying liar jerking you around.  It's easier if we don't have to listen to them.  They know what to say to get to us, and they'll do and say things you can't imagine. 

Remember how Tom Cruise's wife left him?  It was quick, clean and out of the blue, and that's the way to do it, IME.

If you don't want the house hanging up things.... sell it while you still can before the divorce.

Sometimes we see the wisdom in giving the pd everything just to get out. 

Sadly, most of the time the pd wouldn't let that happen, bc they need to punish us way past that. 

I wonder if you can make trouble for the stbx..... does he fear for his citizenship?  At all?

hhaw
hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt

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chocolateraspberry

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2016, 09:49:10 PM »
Hhaw, what reason do I give for taking more than 50% of funds, if asked? That I couldnt access the other funds jointly, they are held abroad, and so...I took more than my fair share? Maybe I can put it in an escrow. Hmm.

There is an issue that would be a problem for him. Dual citizenship is illegal for him. If his country of origin knew he has dual nationality, they'd revoke his passport and citizenship from his home country, limiting his capacity to travel there. But, Im not sure how to utilize that without me essentially engaging in blackmail (illegal).

Sunny, it would be a dream if he doesnt file a response!

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Sunny

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2016, 09:53:50 PM »
Mine didn't!!! He never thought I'd go thru with it!! Filing for default next month  :banaaana:

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InTheDarkness

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2016, 10:23:00 PM »
Please, to CR and everyone who replied, I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I'm on the other side, financially.  My wife, who is retired from the federal government, has all the money, the house, the condo, the vehicles.  I signed a prenup without having it vetted by an attorney.  I've been on disability since June, 2011 and my odds are slim and none of ever being able to work, even part time.

Having money and not having it can both be problematic.   Every person who files for separation or divorce encounters different problems with their PD spouse and even the legal system.   My persistent fear is that I'll end up homeless.  My therapist and a paralegal tell me that that won't happen.  Maybe what I'm trying to express to you, chocolateraspberry, is that from my perspective, you're in a much better position than me or others who have no means of support.  That doesn't make your decision to leave any easier or any less anxiety provoking.  Please understand that.  I'm not minimizing what you are going through.  You certainly don't want to give away the farm to your spouse if you don't have to, bur can you or any of us put a price on peace of mind?  Life is too damn short.  I'm approaching 66 and I've lost a friend, already, and two others have ongoing health problems. 

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hhaw

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2016, 10:44:56 PM »
In the darkness:

Are prenuos ironcld in your State?  You should research that.  My sister signed one but she still negotiated a fair settlement BC State law was State law.

Good luck,
hhaw
hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt

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InTheDarkness

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2016, 11:52:38 PM »
hhaw,

I'm in the process of setting up an appointment with a family law attorney.  I'd been putting this off for a year and half but my therapist and friends are urging me to do it, now.  No more procrastination.  chocolateraspberry expressed the same feeling when she began contemplating divorce.  We know in our guts that we need to get away from a PD spouse but as CR said, there's a disconnect between our heart and our head, as we rationalize and play down what we are experiencing and what we have experienced from that spouse.   It's somewhat like going to the dentist to have a bad tooth pulled.  We dread going to the dentist, so we keep eating aspirin or Tylenol but when we finally have the tooth extracted, what a relief.

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hhaw

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2016, 01:13:02 AM »
I was married 6 years, eating aspirin and trying to stay happy happy with my two young darling daughters, and we were happy, then the mask came off.    I couldn't go back to pretending.  Heck, I could hardly eat or breath.

What made it more difficult was the pd going way out of his way to APPEAR to be a doting husband..... charming my friends, chatting up members of my family.  It was like living with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde..... I KNEW what he was. and I couldn't pretend.... Lord knows I wanted to.

I guess we leave when the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving.

Everyone has their own timeline, and no  one can tell them when to go.  Posters here share experiences/mistakes then hope others learn from them.  It;s hoped not everyone has to learn the hardest of hard ways. 

hhaw
hhaw



What you are speaks so loudly in my ears.... I can't hear a word you're saying.

When someone tells you who they are... believe them.

"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."
Nietchzsche

"It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness."
Eleanor Roosevelt

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chocolateraspberry

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Re: Idea for getting out sanely and safely
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2016, 01:31:50 AM »
Thank you in the darkness. I dont think you are hijacking my thread. I very much appreciated your initial response.

Im sorry that you are in what looks to be a near-destitute situation. No one should have to live like that, prenup or not.

I dont want to misinterpret your follow up, but I think we're on the same page. Here's the deal. What would make me happiest is to get out peacefully and quickly.

I feel like the money becomes fuel for a war I never wanted, and thus I am being encouraged to make sure Inhave enough "ammo" to fight.

Id gladly give this man 75% to sign immediately and not contest. To peacefully leave my life. To have a mature, calm discussion about it all, hug it out, and walk our own paths.

It is fear of him that paralyzes me. And often I think my fear is unfounded, and further fueled by scary stories from others. I resist the idea my husband would become completely psychotic.

I do not know what is worse: my current life, or the process of a divorce with him. I wish I could walk away and not have to do any battle. If I could, I would. I dont see how, though, if he insists on litigating for the sake of litigation.