Feeling the fog. Advice please

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cinderella

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Feeling the fog. Advice please
« on: March 27, 2016, 11:41:16 PM »
So about 2 years ago I became very aware of the FOG, but can't say I've ever really 'come out of it'. I managed to put some distance between me and NPD parents but last summer I'm not sure what came over me, or if I let myself get hoovered or what, but when we discovered my npdf would need a heart bypass, my foo were all invited on a holiday abroad with them.

I said yes.  :blink:

Now the holiday is 8 weeks away. I haven't booked flights, I'm thrilled to be expecting my first child and DH is adamant that I shouldn't fly while pregnant, because any risk is unnecessary risk. On the one hand I agree with him, on the other, I feel deep obligation to go, coupled with the impact of guilt from the regular phone calls of 'I'm so looking forward to all FOO being on holiday together, I've looked forward to it for so long.' and the fear of the guilt trips and 'punishments' that will follow.

Couple this ridiculous situation with the fact that npdf will be 6 weeks post op from a quadruple bypass and how he thinks he'll be fit to travel I have no idea. Still if I admit I'm not going first, the failure of the holiday will be all my fault anyway.

Sorry to post about something that feels so petty on here, but would really appreciate advice from those who are better at dealing with this than me!
There was a little girl, who had a little curl, right in the middle of her forehead.
And when she was good, she did exactly what her father wanted,
and when she was bad she made choices of her own.

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alonenow

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 11:59:18 PM »
   It is easy to be caught off guard and agree to attending to some function.    As with any event life happens and plans can change regardless if it a health reason a schedule conflict etc. if you chose not to fly that is your personal decision.
I think sometimes we fear the worse in terms of guilt trips and if there was any "punishment" then those people are selfish and not worth your effort.

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Rhode

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2016, 02:18:13 AM »
cinderella, I'm not completely Out of the FOG, either.  It's tough because you start feeling like things aren't as bad as you thought they were, and then things spiral out of control if you make a "wrong" move.

Have you talked with your doctor about whether flying during pregnancy is appropriate for you?  Are there any diseases that you would be more susceptible to in the country you're visiting?  You need to think about what's best for you and your baby.

Also, is your trip to a location where you could get away from FOO if needed, or are you going to be trapped in an island or remote area with only your FOO for company?
Still coming Out of the FOG...

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jenizen

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2016, 11:30:50 AM »
Hi Cinderella,
Congratulations on your pregnancy! What a beautiful, special time for you and your husband.

Your post is not petty in the least. These are all the exact kinds of situations which you are trying to navigate through the FOG to keep yourself and your family (of choice) safe and respected with appropriate boundaries.

I feel for you and totally understand the Obligation and Guilt that happens around family events and holidays.  (My covert ND and NstepM go as far as "surprising" me with their presence on my vacation. UGH. I've got them figured out now...but just goes to show how far they will go when you start to set boundaries).

I think you need to do exactly what you feel is right for you and your FOC. The other adult family members in your life should want that for you, for your baby and your husband.

Now it's really not... all....about them. If they can't understand that - that's their problem. You can't fix that for them. If you feel you want to you can perhaps offer a nice alternative - that doesn't involve you flying (and being in close company for such a long stretch)? A nice dinner out somewhere before they leave? A bottle of champagne or flowers to their hotel room at the resort?

Now that you are a Mother, it is truly a fork in the road.  It is a very good time to start to set vital boundaries (a cocoon of protection for you and your family)  - just as you will as a naturally caring parent for your beautiful new family member.

You might find it is helpful when you are struggling with the feelings around setting boundaries and making decisions based on your needs to think of yourself as the Mother and parent of your baby (rather than the child of your PD parents).

It's amazing how as adult children of PD's we can rise up so naturally and instinctively like a lioness to protect our children.
Trust your instincts.  You and your husband get to decide what is the best for your child.

Know this too - you are and always were, deserving of the same care, respect, love, consideration and protection that you as a good loving parent will give to your baby. When you take care of yourself you are also taking care of your baby.

Peace and Healing (and wondrous wishes for your new one)  to you
My posts here are just thoughts & opinions based on my personal experience.  After so long in FOG I'm honouring & accepting me & all of my emotions in my process. Peace & healing on your unique journey. (bipolar, schizo-affective, N,BPDMother & Covert N enFather & 2 B's living with schizo-affective)

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practical

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2016, 02:13:50 PM »
my foo were all invited on a holiday abroad with them.
This is were I would make the clear cut decision to not go, as you will be nowhere close to access to your own doctors if you have any issues. Protecting yourself and your child is the priority, humoring your FOO just isn't, and if your FOO is anything like mine, it doesn't quite work anyway, whatever you do is never quite good enough. Sorry to be so blunt.

When I'm faced with decisions where I'm fighting with FOG I reread the  51% rule and the 3C's rule, to assure myself that contrary to what I learned in my FOO, I actually have the right to put myself first, and in your case it is you and your baby and DH's wishes, which should count for just as much as your FOO's if not more. And I also reassure myself that I cannot make my FOO happy, that is something they have to do. Whatever I'll do will not cure them, fix their problems, soothe their fears.
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-3-cs-rule
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-51-rule

If you do decide not to go, try not to JADE. A simple statement like "After discussing the upcoming travel with DH we both feel this is not the appropriate time for me. I'm sorry I cannot be part of this trip and if this causes any upset." Believe me, you can do it, practice before a mirror saying those sentences, write what you want to say on a sheet of paper and read from it when you make the call or send an email informing your FOO. If you get pushback, just say "This is my decision, there is nothing that will change it." Try not to get involved in a long conversation, cut it short if it gets too much for you "I have to get the door.", "I have to run" will all do the trick and if you don't want to use a white lie, just call 5-10 minutes before you actually have to make dinner or leave the house. Take a moment and reread Medium Chill and Boundaries in the Toolbox to get some help with this if you feel you are rusty.

I assume you were not pregnant yet when the invitation was issued (and even if you were it doesn't matter), your circumstances have changed and that is really all there is to it.

If your FOO thinks it is sensible to travel with your F 6 weeks after bypass surgery, that is their decision, just like not going is yours.

Couple this ridiculous situation with the fact that npdf will be 6 weeks post op from a quadruple bypass and how he thinks he'll be fit to travel I have no idea. Still if I admit I'm not going first, the failure of the holiday will be all my fault anyway.
I totally understand that you don't want to be blamed for the holiday not being what they had imagined, try to realize and remind yourself that this is a sign of the dysfunction in your FOO and has nothing to do with you. Any normal, sensible parent would have long asked you whether you still want to come on the trip given your changed circumstances. Try to step out of the dysfunction. I know it is terrifying, but you can do it! Have your DH hold your hand when you make the call, or be on the other line so he can listen in to reassure you and validate you if the conversation goes of the rails. If you decide to send an email, maybe DH can help you.

You could wait till after your F's surgery in the hope the trip will be called off, but then you have to live with the FOG till then. I usually like to get unpleasant things over with and this way you give your FOO enough time to make changes if necessary.

Truly your pregnancy is a totally obvious reason for not flying and for not going abroad, even if it is medically allowed. Yours and your DH's comfort level are the deciding factor.
:bighug:
“If I’m not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when I’m only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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cinderella

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2016, 07:21:32 PM »
Thanks everyone.
This is a real revalation for me.
You might find it is helpful when you are struggling with the feelings around setting boundaries and making decisions based on your needs to think of yourself as the Mother and parent of your baby (rather than the child of your PD parents).

I think I still regress to childhood with interactions with my parents and it is so true that I now need to see myself as a mother before anything else, a wife and finally, a daughter (but not a child).

Your responses have helped me see that I need to get my priorities straight and, like the 51% rule says, supporting my needs is that bit more important than ensuring my npdf his the holiday he was expecting. Now I just need to suck it up and admit that to them!
There was a little girl, who had a little curl, right in the middle of her forehead.
And when she was good, she did exactly what her father wanted,
and when she was bad she made choices of her own.

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SunnyandBright

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 03:05:22 PM »
Actually Cinderella - I don't agree that you should be a mother, first.    You're a wife first, a mother second.   That is not to say that while your child needs you -- while he is still a child, you shouldn't take care of him/her first -- because of course you should.   You and your husband both should.   But you're still a wife first.  Remember -- your job is to give your child all the tools he needs to be independent -- to go off into the world, and have his own life.   (a job that your parents don't want to ever be completed -- they want you tied to them, like a boat on a dock, or a hot air balloon teathered)   Someday your child will leave your home and make her own home.   You and your DH will still be together.  You're a wife, first.   (of course, this only works if your DH cares about the kids as much as you do.  If someone has the type of husband who puts his needs before the needs of the children -- that is a different kettle of fish, all together) 

I hope that you will say something to your parents, if you haven't already.   You shouldn't have this feeling of being in the middle.   What is the worst that can happen, if you tell them how its going to be?   It may bring you immense relief.   Sure, they might be angry at you.   But what can they really do?   
I remember my mother always trying to put me in the middle.   I finally couldn't take it anymore and I told her to stop doing it.  I told her that if she continued to try to get me to take sides --- it was always going to be his.   I live with him, it's always going to be his side that I take.   She got a little better in certain ways, after that.   

I think that once you have your child -- you will begin to see just how wrong your parents are.   You will realize that the things they say and do -- you would never say and do to your own child.   I think that makes it a lot easier to pull away from them, knowing that they are not being good parents.   And knowing that they know they aren't being good parents. 

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betta fish

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 05:42:43 PM »
We live in a time where social media is perfect for situations like yours.  Skype is free and I am sure someone will have a cell phone at the party.  You have no obligation to go if you don't want to.  I had my 3 children before I realized my mom had a BPD.  The hoops I went through for 37 years to satisfy her endless needs were absurd.  You don't have to go, your needs are just as valid as theirs are.
“Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.”
― Maya Angelou

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Orangeblossom77

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 07:39:31 AM »
If it were me I would probably use the pregnancy as a good excuse not to go. However I am unsure whether that would work, as if you explain they may try and talk you out of it. For example they would work out what stage of pregnancy you are and try to say it is safe to fly then. I read it can be best just not to explain. I am quite new to all of this to perhaps others may be better to listen to.  :wacko:

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daughter

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Re: Feeling the fog. Advice please
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 11:57:05 AM »
When newly OOTF, it's helpful to embrace "neutral" legitimate reasons for evading face-to-face obligatory "contact-visits" with our npd-parents.  I'd agree, pregnancy is a good reason to avoid flying, and "doctor's orders" is an excellent "neutral" source of validation.  Acknowledge your self-induced FOG, and "speak" to it: you're newly OOTF, you're pregnant, you're 1) minimizing medical risk and 2) declining to resubmerge yourself into your npd-enmeshed parents' dysfunctional dynamic, and don't forget, you and DH operate as a unit and he has a say here too.