FM quoting Bible, clueless

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AmericanWoman

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FM quoting Bible, clueless
« on: May 24, 2016, 12:12:39 AM »
Dang!  The one I was going to use to babysit my N/BPDm I just found out this afternoon is a FM, it's my SIL.  My brother divorced her years ago but she is the mother of his only children and we have always gotten along.  She has known this family for almost 40 years and has seen the craziness in action and yet tells me on the phone to do what the Bible says and "Honor thy Mother".  I asked her what if the mother was abusing, and it didn't seem to make any difference to her.  Oh hell no, I don't want either one of them at my wedding.  On top of that, SIL just got herself on my NC list...grrrr

I heard she was real controlling of my brother and that is why he left her, one of their daughters is the princess of NPD so maybe my SIL is messed up too?!  Heck, I just want to get away from all of them!  :stars:

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Inurdreams

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 12:40:36 PM »
Good grief!  I get that one a lot especially from FM's.  It seems to be their go-to phrase.

Here's how I see the Honor thing.  First of all, one must act honorably to be treated honorably and even if they don't act honorably, I think it means that we are to still act honorably and not bring shame on our parents by our actions. IOW, not be a murderer or a bank robber or a drug addict or whatever, but rather to conduct our lives within the social norms of our culture, whatever that may be.

Some people think that Honoring our parents means we are supposed to take their abuse and I truly do not think that is what honoring our parents is. At all!  Ever!

When I went NC or even VLC with my parents (and NML) I was acting honorably as opposed to getting into arguments with them or saying something hurtful.

All that being said, I wouldn't waste my time trying to explain it that way to an FM.  In fact, I would get all "honorable" with them and cut them off as well.

I can't stand people who use the bible and bible verses as a device to control us.  And it's usually those very same people who know very little of what's written in the bible other than what they want to pull out to hit us over the head with.

Peek not through the keyhole lest ye be vexed. - Stephen King


Response to a Flying Monkey:  Apparently you are suffering under the delusion that I give a damn.

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AmericanWoman

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 09:23:49 PM »
^  A big Amen to that inurdreams   :applause:

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moglow

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2016, 01:33:09 AM »
My mother has touted that very verse when all else fails. I guess our interpretations of "honor" will continue to differ, and for that I'm thankful. My sense of honor prevents me from delivering the abuses I've suffered from her my entire life. She has always had weapons and rarely failed to use them.

For what it's worth, I believe there is another verse that states: Provoke not your children to anger. Even if taken out of context, I think that sends a pretty clear message as well.

You are welcome. 😎
“Nothing exposes our true self more than how we treat each other in the home.”  ~ Joseph B. Wirthlin

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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poiu

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2016, 02:03:32 PM »
Interesting thread! I studied theology and marriage & family studies (ironically) at a Catholic University. We talked about this quite a few times, actually. The other part of "honor your parents" is that the parents need to be people who are honor-able. The parents should also respect their children and not provoke them to anger/sin. It's good to step back from relationships that provoke you to sin, especially if it does this to both parties. You do both of yourselves a favor by maintaining space. For Christians (I am Catholic), this honor simply means respect. For 'normal' parents, it would mean weekly calls, regular visits, cards, making sacrifices, etc. For us, this means something a little different. In most cases, it is possible and perfectly justified to maintain LC or VLC when parents are abusive. However, other cases where the parents are much more awful, it is perfectly justified to go NC. But, when you are, it would mean not bashing them to everyone you know (except of the internet :wink:). If someone asks, keep the answer vague.

Though you are NC with your parents does not mean that you cannot still honor them. You honor them by living a good life and praying for them (because they need it  :wink: ). This would mean forgiving them , if only for yourself. Forgiving and Reconciling are two completely different things. Mostly for us, we forgive but cannot reconcile a relationship because the other party is unwilling to change. WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO STAY IN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS just because "they're our parents..." If years down the road, they are in treatment and are truly changing, it would be Christian to give them a chance to ease back into a relationship slowly if they reach out.  Forgiving is not forgetting. We must remember what they have done and remain on guard in the relationship in case they have not actually changed to protect ourselves. When I talked to my priest, he said that "God does smack us around, and He doesn't want other people smacking us around." So basically, anyone who does not respect your dignity as a human person and your autonomy, it is your right to set boundaries. If those don't work, certainly go NC. It's about other people respecting us and us respecting us. Remember, it's also wrong for us to allow ourselves to be treated this way.

I am conflicted about the wedding thing as well (though I'm not even dating). It's just something I wonder about for the future. But, things are too uncertain at the moment about how I will handle the relationship. If you are NC, you can invite if you wish. It's debatable whether you should invite them if they are LC. You are not obligated to have them involved in the planning.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 02:09:02 PM by poiu »

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stephoney

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 07:24:48 PM »
My PD mother though honor was a joke, seriously. Judging by the way she behaved, she did ignore honor. Certainly the way she behaved was dishonorable. One of the last times myself and PD spoke it went something like "Isn't our relationship important?" What she couldn't understand is that although i felt honoring mother and father was something that should have been important, there were some things even higher. Honor was one of them, perhaps the highest of them all. She had no since of boundaries, or of right and wrong and over time i realized that her very nature was not someone i could allow myself to be around. If i were a third party in my situation, i would advise PD that she was certainly someone in need to "find religion." and to discover the purpose and reasons of right vs wrong. To make her own peace with God and to realize that respect must be earned that it is never a gift.

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Freedup

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 11:14:19 AM »
A major theme of the Bible is God calling us out of captivity.  Like you know: Exodus lol.  But then again later the Israelites went back into captivity again! This type of person,  whoever or may be,  seems to be like a "captor".  The relationship is much like a prison.  God calls us to be free.  So honoring parents is good, but that's just one scripture.  Is it's used for one's own gain then i think of the scripture that talks about "but if you have not LOVE, it's a clanging symbol".  If love isn't behind the motivation of even saying the scripture, then it is being used for selfish reasons and personal gain, which is the opposite of love.

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liftinfog

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 11:32:42 PM »
I had highlighted these awhile back. Still struggling with "Christian"-based PD abuse myself, but I saved a few verses in my readings that just nail it to their BS I think...

“But God says to the wicked, “Why should you recite my commandments? Why should you talk about my covenant? You refuse to let me correct you; you reject my commands.

“You are always ready to speak evil; you never hesitate to tell lies. You are ready to accuse your own relatives and to find fault with them. You have done all this, and I have said nothing, so you thought that I was like you. But now I reprimand you and make the matter plain to you.”
Psalms‬ 50:16-17, 19-21‬ GNB‬‬
http://bible.com/296/psa.50.16-17,19-21.gnb

“Give at least two warnings to those who cause divisions, and then have nothing more to do with them. You know that such people are corrupt, and their sins prove that they are wrong.”
Titus‬ 3:10-11‬ GNB‬‬
http://bible.com/296/tit.3.10-11.gnb

“Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished.”
Proverbs‬ 16:5‬ ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/pro.16.5.esv

“People who set traps for others get caught themselves. People who start landslides get crushed.”
Proverbs‬ 26:27‬ GNB‬‬
http://bible.com/296/pro.26.27.gnb

For me that's just like boom, I don't even have to rephrase or interpret Greek there. They pretty much word for word proves to me that whoever God is, he doesn't take divisiveness, lies, slander or narcissism lightly, and at best condones distancing yourself from it and at worst, get out of the way so God can punish. But I'll never get them to see that. One can only interpret reality or literature through the lens of their highest authority, which in PD or FM cases is usually their own selfishness.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 11:35:49 PM by liftinfog »
“Only people who are capable of loving strongly can also suffer great sorrow, but this same necessity of loving serves to counteract their grief and heals them.”
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1footouttadefog

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 01:16:40 AM »
We are also advised not to put pearls at swines feet.  So yes you try and then move on to other work

 
We are also told that some seed will land on good soil and other rocks or sand etc. 

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all4peace

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 01:32:47 AM »
I had highlighted these awhile back. Still struggling with "Christian"-based PD abuse myself, but I saved a few verses in my readings that just nail it to their BS I think...

“But God says to the wicked, “Why should you recite my commandments? Why should you talk about my covenant? You refuse to let me correct you; you reject my commands.

“You are always ready to speak evil; you never hesitate to tell lies. You are ready to accuse your own relatives and to find fault with them. You have done all this, and I have said nothing, so you thought that I was like you. But now I reprimand you and make the matter plain to you.”
Psalms‬ 50:16-17, 19-21‬ GNB‬‬
http://bible.com/296/psa.50.16-17,19-21.gnb

“Give at least two warnings to those who cause divisions, and then have nothing more to do with them. You know that such people are corrupt, and their sins prove that they are wrong.”
Titus‬ 3:10-11‬ GNB‬‬
http://bible.com/296/tit.3.10-11.gnb

“Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished.”
Proverbs‬ 16:5‬ ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/pro.16.5.esv

“People who set traps for others get caught themselves. People who start landslides get crushed.”
Proverbs‬ 26:27‬ GNB‬‬
http://bible.com/296/pro.26.27.gnb

For me that's just like boom, I don't even have to rephrase or interpret Greek there. They pretty much word for word proves to me that whoever God is, he doesn't take divisiveness, lies, slander or narcissism lightly, and at best condones distancing yourself from it and at worst, get out of the way so God can punish. But I'll never get them to see that. One can only interpret reality or literature through the lens of their highest authority, which in PD or FM cases is usually their own selfishness.
Thank you! I've been intending to start a similar list, and this is a great start!

There's another verse that says something along the lines of "Dwell peaceably with all men, as much as is possible"

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Rainstorm

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 03:07:49 PM »
Quote
"Dwell peaceably with all men, as much as is possible"

I love that verse, and it is the opposite of what most PD people do.

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Daughter 15

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Re: FM quoting Bible, clueless
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2016, 05:58:01 PM »
I struggled with the command to honor my parents as well. Ndad and Enmom used scripture to abuse. They quoted Ephesians 4:32 to me constantly saying that I should be more forgiving. Funny it didn't seem to apply to them...  The part about being kind? Really??? 

Anyway, it was EYE-OPENING to me when I came across 2 Timothy 3:2-5. Those verses described narcissistic personality disorder to a tee!!!  Verse 5 says have nothing to do with such people. My dad identifies himself as a Christian yet fits those verses perfectly. God's word tells us we will be able to know who is of Him by their fruits. Good trees bear good fruit and bad trees bear bad fruit. So I compare those verses with Galatians 5:22-23. What are the fruit of the Spirit?  Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness and self-control. Of course, no one has ever fulfilled these perfectly except Jesus but we should at least see a semblance of the fruit in those who call themselves brothers and sisters. Ndad displays none of them on a consistent basis. Therefore, I feel a peace about having nothing to do with him.
You'll end up really disappointed if you expect people will do for you as you do for them. Not everyone has the same heart as you.

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AmericanWoman

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UPDATE!
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 08:00:49 PM »
Wow, wonderful information and quotes and links - thank y'all so much!


We got married this past summer and nobody was there except the pastor and a couple of folks working at the church to witness it and it was wonderful!  Since we moved so far away I believe most were happy we just went off and got married.  We did plan it, I did have flowers and he had a flower on his lapel.  God sent me the greatest man that is giving me a wonderful life.  What happened was I sat him down and told him what I honestly wanted, for it to be just the two of us.  I think he was glad, he told me he thought most girls wanted big weddings.  I wasn't one of those girls, lol.

Thanks again, good stuff to save  :)