Going NC with long-term friends

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npdsurvivor

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Going NC with long-term friends
« on: May 31, 2016, 07:55:29 PM »
Hello everyone,

Over the last few years I've known that there is something very toxic about my longest standing friendship of 10+ years. Now that I'm ootf, I have the strength and clarity to finally end this unhealthy friendship and haven't spoken to this friend in several months. There are many red flags with this friendship, but the biggest one is that she's tried to undermine my relationship for the entire duration of my marriage. She's tried to kick my husband out when she's visited in the past (so she could stay with me instead, apparently just staying with us wasn't enough for her), tried to convince me that he will either leave me, and when that doesn't work she claims I should leave him and move thousands of miles to live with her. She's also always been controlling, manipulative, and has put me down many times. Clearly, the relationship is unhealthy and concerning! I have finally pulled the plug and gone NC but now she's been contacting one of my closest friends, asking for specific information about my, my whereabouts, all under the pretense that she's "concerned". My friend posted something about seeing me on her social media and this friend responded asking specifically if she saw me on that date, which came across as very creepy to both of us. It was like she was keeping tabs on me or social media stalking me. Luckily, my friend let me know about the message and asked me what I'd like her to do and has ignored her!

I have read that several of you have had to let go of unhealthy friendships. So I'm really just looking for advice/guidance on what to expect with going NC with a friend who is trying to hold on as long as possible, and who is also inappropriately keeping tabs on you after you go NC.

Thank you

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alonenow

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2016, 01:13:49 PM »
                                  I think of it this way toxic people lose friends everyday and so if they have any chance to hold on or reconnect they will try. I do think contacting your friends ( especially if they are not mutual friends) is creepy and stalking social media is a way in their head to pretend they still know what is going on with people like they would if you are still in contact.    I am thankful that most of the PDs I was "friends" with were co -workers and after I left that job they sought out new prey. I went in to visit an old friend ran in to one of the PDs and just felt creeped out talking to them.  I could just see her trying to get personal info and I am sure she grilled the person I went to visit for details I never share with almost anyone simply because I have been burned by  flying monkeys.  I am finding that the last possible PD friend is not engaging because I do medium chill with her. I have not spoken in months to her and I do not want to because she is so judgmental.    i am very cautious with people and think i can fall back into old friendships by error. I tell myself  each time i re-engage is like an alcoholic telling themselves they CAN have a glass of wine or two.   It will only end badly.

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meringue

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2016, 02:36:44 PM »
Hi NPDSurvivor,

I could be completely wrong here, but your friend's obsession with you particularly several months after you've not spoken hints to me that she may have more than just platonic feelings for you. The wanting to kick your husband out, undermining the marriage, asking you to move thousands of miles away to live with her (i.e., viewing him as competition) and being totally stalk-y with your mutual friends.

Without knowing more, I would say if you want to limit her keeping tabs on you, fall off the radar from all social media for a bit.  Can you expand more on the dynamic of your friendship over the past 10+ years and what precipitated the NC months ago and what (besides the digital stalking) has happened since?



There's no reasoning with unreasonable people.

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npdsurvivor

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 08:19:09 PM »
Thank you for your comments.

Meringue, my husband and I both have wondered the same thing. My husband is convinced that she has romantic feelings for me, and after analyzing her behavior, I have to agree.

I didn't date a ton before my husband, but I don't really remember her ever liking any of the men that I dated.

There are many small details that I could elaborate on that make me think she may want to be more than friends, but the main red flags are that she cannot stand my husband for no obvious reason and she has tried to convince me that he's never loved me and that I should leave him. And also the fact that she wanted me to move across country to live with her, which makes no sense because I'm about to start grad school, is also a major red flag. So basically, she has always looked for opportunities to convince me to get a divorce, even though I'm nowhere close to doing so.

We were extremely close for about ten years, and as soon as my husband came into the picture the whole dynamic changed and she began acting threatened. She has told me that she considered interrupting our wedding ceremony to ask me not to marry him, but didn't end up doing so because she thought I'd never forgive her. Also the fact that she tried to kick my husband out so that we could sleep in the same bedroom when she came to visit was also very strange and discerning. She was very upset that I didn't allow her to kick him out, and didn't seem to see this as boundary breaking and inappropriate.

Probably the most significant red flag was that I once jokingly told her that my husband thought that we might be more than friends and that he was a little jealous. I was joking with her and wasn't actually serious. She responded "Well, we do love each other".

I had been considering going NC for about two years, but since I only saw her in person about once a year, it was easy to put it off. I finally decided to go NC when she recently came into town and I started dreading seeing her, so I didn't. I also made a list of all the reasons I thought the friendship was toxic and came up with at least thirty reasons. So ya, it's time to go NC haha

Do you think potential romantic feelings could be the root cause of the issue here? I still think that the friendship would be toxic even if this isn't the case, because she's so controlling and negative.

Oh and, I haven't been on social media for about a month or so and it has really helped me! I still have the account, but haven't logged in, so there's no way she could be tracking me, except if people tag me, like my other friend did.

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npdsurvivor

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2016, 08:23:05 PM »
I forgot to mention that another main reason that I decided to go NC with her is because the friendship is starting to remind me a little bit of the dynamics that I had with both of my Narc parents before going NC with them. She can be very passive aggressive, judgmental, controlling, and covert. I'm also one of several of her other female friends to go NC with her in the last year.

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alonenow

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 08:57:53 PM »
npdsurvivor , there can be another option other then a romantic interest although from what you say it is possible.
I have had at least 2 ex PD friends who could not maintain any long term relationships and they often butted in giving me unsolicited advice about my marriage and how it is so great being a strong independent woman and I would be better off single. they tried interfering with any friend in a committed relationship.
Neither one had a romantic interest but were bound and determined that if they could not be happy married then no one should. 
Both ironically had there SO/ H leave them and then the SO / H  stayed married to the person they left them for and stayed for 20 + years.  That really busted up their plan to blame the spouse with inability to commit. As you can tell knowing them that long meant I saw many relationship failure because they never had any ability to compromise.

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meringue

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2016, 12:41:12 AM »
Yep. That definitely sounds like feelings to me. I hear what you're saying, Alonenow; but the friend wanting the husband out of the house so NPDSurvivor and she could be in the same bed is more than just not wanting someone else to be happy.

Being gay (or bi) and being attracted your friend when those specific feelings are not reciprocated is tough. And in short? Not all of us learned how to deal with that in a healthy manner.  ;D 

...I would have *thought* and felt all those things with the friend I fell into that with 18 years ago, but I never would have stopped her marriage nor tried to break it up because I realized the feeling wasn't mutual and that was something I had to accept. Not gone the "If I can't have you no one can" route. That's the difference between a PD and a non.  <laughingnotlaughing>
There's no reasoning with unreasonable people.

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moglow

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2016, 10:08:16 AM »
People change, friendships change. I wouldn't  consider it NC so much as a friendship having run its course. And if she had romantic feelings? Sorry, you didn't feel the same. I doubt I'd buy into or consider it further. The whole negativity issue would put paid to that for me.

If you bump into her, be pleasant, be evasive and be gone. You can always block her on social media where she doesn't see you and you don't see her. And definitely don't discuss her with others - they may have their own agenda. A lot of people just like the drama of it all.
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thebutcher

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2016, 12:18:48 PM »
People change, friendships change. I wouldn't  consider it NC so much as a friendship having run its course. And if she had romantic feelings? Sorry, you didn't feel the same. I doubt I'd buy into or consider it further. The whole negativity issue would put paid to that for me.

If you bump into her, be pleasant, be evasive and be gone. You can always block her on social media where she doesn't see you and you don't see her. And definitely don't discuss her with others - they may have their own agenda. A lot of people just like the drama of it all.

This is what I'm doing with a uPD friend of mine who exploded on me a month or so ago.  Part of me wanted to work it out and find a resolution, but I "played the tape forward" and realized that she's been irrational and unreachable on a mature emotional level throughout our friendship (7-8 years), so it would be pointless to try to resolve it.  She's already rewritten our "argument" (it wasn't an argument, because there was no difference of opinion, just her having a temper tantrum under some mild but firm criticism) to position herself as a victim of my cruelty.  The "cruelty" in this case is not engaging with her hysterical and baiting texts immediately.

Life is too short for friends like this, npdsurvivor.

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clara

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2016, 01:45:16 PM »
Well, to those who are suggesting there could be a "romantic" angle to it...not necessarily.  My NPD ex-friend was gay and out and he would STILL make comments about my marriage and husband that were often critical and sometimes verged on the "why don't you leave him?" variety.  I have no idea why he did that, except maybe because it was how he looked at ALL relationships, including mine.  For one, he had that highly unrealistic, super-romantic view of love that only exists in movies but he seemed to believe that no romantic relationship was worthwhile without those conditions.  The other was his attitude that people were there to be used and unless they served some obvious purpose were not worth bothering with.  So he couldn't understand why I was with someone who (1) I didn't talk about as if we were Romeo and Juliet and (2) wasn't someone I needed for financial gain.  Needless to say, he went through relationship after relationship, both romantic and friendship, either becomes no one could tolerate him for very long or he decided he no longer needed the relationship because he'd found something better (meaning more advantageous).  I finally went full NC when it seemed safe to do so, but I should have done it years earlier.  In the past, if he didn't hear from me for a period of time he'd get back in touch, trying to make it sound like I was a really horrible person for not being in touch (although he would go through periods of not communicating as well but he always had a "good reason.")  Then whine about how much he needed me, how much he "loved" me etc.  Pulled me back in.  The only reason he hasn't tried to communicate with me this time is because he has a new "friend" who he's taking advantage of and thus doesn't need me any more.  I guarantee that if this new friend ever figures out what the real deal is (i.e., money) he'll be gone as well, then the ex will be back at my door!  My hope is that he will soon move out of the state (which he's been planning for awhile now, just doesn't have the money) and I won't have to worry about it any more.  But right now I do, and I don't trust him because he's pulled some nasty shit on people he's gotten into disagreements with in the past and I know what he's capable of.  So for now, it's full NC and hope he just goes away.

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meringue

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2016, 09:19:45 PM »
True; it could be a jealousy thing. Or frankly it could be anything. -Or nothing. This IS a PD person we're talking about, after all.

And perhaps I took the thread off point but the bottom line is, NPDSurvivor, you definitely don't need that kind of aggravation in your life. So I think just keeping on as you have been - that is to say, avoiding her and trying to limit your visibility to her as much as you can; and asking willing friends to help you accomplish that when they can - will serve you well until she moves on to the next person. Good Luck!
There's no reasoning with unreasonable people.

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npdsurvivor

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2016, 01:53:37 PM »
Thank you everyone for your comments! I definitely have gotten the impression that there could be romantic feelings involved, but I could also be wrong, and I also think it's a much bigger issue than that. I guess it doesn't even matter if there are romantic feelings or not, the behavior is still hurtful and toxic, and that alone is enough of an issue.

I also forgot to mention that my friend has parents who are similar to my own NPD parents, so I'm sure that could have a lot to do with it. Even if her objections about marriage weren't there, there are so many other toxic elements and issues, I'm sure I'd still need to cut it off. The fact that it appears there may be romantic feelings definitely intensifies the situation, but I guess it's not the only issue here. I've been feeling like I need to cut the friendship for the past two years and I'm glad I finally have. I hasn't been easy, but it's necessary to my own recovery.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 01:57:26 PM by npdsurvivor »

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Arya

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Re: Going NC with long-term friends
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2016, 05:26:14 PM »
Don't know if this adds to convo here but, I had a very good friend who was gay. I'm not. But im single and i do lots of untraditional things for a woman....like fix my own car. Also, the area we lived in pretty backwards conservative rural ....i had many people assume I must be gay because my bestie was gay. It ticked me off. I had conversations with her about how lame i thought it was...i don't care about someone's orientation,friends are friends right? She also had longtime partner.

I thought we were best friends and we had so much fun. Our friendship to me was like what your best friend as a kid was like...you just had loads of fun hanging out doing stuff. To me it was never sexual.

But she started saying things like I must be gay because I fixed my car, was outdoorsy, independent etc.  I didn't agree and was offended, told her so.

Then her partner started acting weird around me, like she didn't like me anymore.  Then they started have troubles, and friend would talk about moving out, moving on, me and her should start a new life somewhere. I prettydensely thought this was like besties, making a plan to move on for better.


Oooooooh how wrong I was. One night she tried to kiss me and I said NO Way! What tge hell are you doing?

Downhill from there. She believed I was the one for her and denying my feelings. I felt hugely insulted and pissed shed project that on me.

I ended up going MC w her. And at that point she became likes psycho ex...calling, things in the mail etc. I was a bit scared. I went NC. And she eventually stopped, about a year later apologized. But we weren't friends again which was sad to me.....she'd had totally different idea about our connection than I did and it wasn't fixable.

Also retrospect, her mom is psycho PD. She'd always been not good enough, people pleaser, trying to do everything for everyone and also attracted to people who were unavailable for variety of reasons. I think this totally fueled how over the top she got with me. Also, when she got in touch to apologize...she'd started a relationship with someone who was ImO NPD, one day they were in love, next day she came home to screaming and her stuff thrown on the lawn. I could see, sadly, my friend was locked into a wash rinse repeat of cray cray...i wished she could have been friend I thought she was, our friendship what I thought it was....but could see it was all a painful and sad soup of stuff had nothing to do with me really. Never heard from her again after she apologized.