Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?

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SpringLight

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2016, 07:07:57 PM »
Thanks, Brigid!

The week in question for me  is during the 4th of July holiday, so I have some additional time to prepare. When the time comes, I may have to borrow your fireworks emoticon...for those predictable "inside fireworks!"  :aaauuugh:

I, too, can feel sorry for my BPD-sis.

I have always felt compassion for her. But that compassion can no longer cloud my judgment to the point that I am caring about her problems so much that I ignore my own needs and feelings.  These rage storms can come on so quickly, that typically I am left feeling (and probably looking) like a deer in the headlights.

I am an empath; so empathy comes naturally to me--and that is sometimes a very good thing. But not always. In the past, I have felt another's feelings so intensely that I'm completely unaware of my own.  :upsidedown: It's...for lack of a better way to express it....like having an out of body experience. And not in a good way.

So, empathy is a good quality. But I have to limit my empathy with PD people because I can get completely sucked in, unless I self-monitor.   I think I can spot a BPD person much more quickly now.

But I think I still am quite a sucker when it comes to N's and people with lots of N behavior.

Implementing what I know  will take practice.  And I'll be back here to read, learn and report.

Good talking with you, Brigid! :hug:


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BettyGray

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2016, 09:35:17 AM »
SpringLight - to answer your earlier question about why my sister went NC with me, it was because I was honest with her about how broken our family was. And why nobody but me ever got professional help for the abuses, lies, and horrible things my parents did.

Here is an excerpt from an earlier post:

"About 7 months ago my super bully older uBPD sister called me and told me I had been pulling away from her (we used to talk once a week but it was mostly just her talking about herself) even though she had not called me much in months. Said she wanted us to be closer (we have nothing in common, I have no respect for her, she has no self awareness and is never wrong, is a bully, very negative , and has no interest whatsoever in me or my life). I was as close to her as I could stand - the thought of being closer seemed like torture to me.  So I asked what she thought would make that happen. She kind of lost it and blamed my low frequency of visits to FOO's home (all my fault of course). Demanded to know why I didn't come home more often and stay longer.

So I was honest - for maybe the first time. Told her because (besides the fact that we are self employed and time off is a luxury)  it's a long way to travel and spend and lose money to spend time with 5 miserable people and get sucked into their dramas. And to leave exhausted and often sick. She flew into a rage and accused me of being angry (even though she was yelling), condescending, mean, selfish (a classic!), etc. "You don't even seemi like you LIKE me!!" she baited me. I said "sometimes I don't." This didn't go over well. She screamed - er shrieked - bloody murder at me and hung up on me while I was mid-sentence. Texted me some BS like "Dont call me again at all. I wish you the best and only want you to be happy." No calls since."

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SpringLight

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2016, 10:25:32 PM »
Thanks for reposting that, Liz 1018:

Isn't it ASTONISHING that you or I or anyone would spend one second of our valuable time with someone like that ... a person who "has no self awareness and is never wrong, is a bully, very negative , and has no interest whatsoever in [you] or [your] life?" :blink:

What keeps us connected to these people for so long...is it hope ( that they'd miraculously have a positive personal change) or is it just a habit (i.e, you used to talk once a week)?

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little fish

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2016, 11:16:40 PM »
Hello SpringLight, I'm a newbie too :)

I came to OOTF for support for dealing with my separation from my DH, but your thread really stuck out to me and I wanted to add my two cents ;)

My relationship with my two sisters has not been good lately, a lot of what you went through as
a child I went through a similar experience.

 I have been separated from my DH for nearly four months now and I just realized my sisters have not called me since I've separated. Not once have they actually picked up the phone to see how I am doing, I'm in regular contact with my parents, I realize that my sisters have their own lives but in the past they have both say how much they love me and care for me, but it's been radio silence from them.

I admit I've made mistakes with them both, but I have tried to mend rifts only to receive silence from them. I've even rang my youngest sister to thank her for the clothes she gave Miss 11, ok we rang when they were having dinner but she didn't even call back to speak to DD further.

I've been sending my older sister photos of the girls close to every week with no reply or even acknowledgement that she has received them, it's actually more like six months since I've spoken to my oldest sister. She hasn't forgiven me for a HUGE mistake I made last year, I have apologised and I feel so bad for hurting her but how long do I have to wait for even one phone call?

Yes I have tried to phone her too.

I brought my niece a birthday present and gave it to my youngest sister thanked her again for the clothes for DD, but I haven't even received a thank you from my niece.

It may seem petty but all through my childhood I felt like the odd one out, not just because I'm the middle child either. It seems to have expanded since becoming a adult, I've made choices in my life that my parents don't always agree on but I'm not a terrible person.

Even now my parents brag about what my sisters are doing, my BIL (younger sisters DH), is the favourite out of the two SIL's. My oldest sister isn't married, there is nothing wrong with that, I always felt bad when the small minded people in our town judged her for it.

My parents are good people, I'm sure they mean well but even when I've brought up how I feel my Mum just goes straight to how I made my sisters feel. :(

At this hard time I wish they could stop holding my flaws against me and actually pick up the phone and call me. I know my oldest sister speaks to my mother weekly, because my mother tells me she always ask after me :(
I was always looking outside myself for strength and confidence, but it comes from within. It is there all of the time.
Anna Freud

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SpringLight

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2016, 11:56:05 PM »
Hello, little fish:

Isn't it baffling when you're going through a major life stress, and people who claim to love you....remain silent?

Of course, the most likely explanation for the silence would probably be the old... "I didn't know what to say."  or "I thought you needed some time to sort things out."

When you allude to a HUGE mistake that you made...without stating exactly WHAT that was...can you say what the impact on them was? Did it hurt them? Embarrass them? Infuriate them? Let them down? Did it even affect them directly? Or was it something wrong you did that affected the "family reputation?"

Did your family agree it really was a HUGE mistake, or is that just YOUR perception of how they view your mistake? 

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all4peace

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 12:52:18 AM »
My experience with healthy N's is that they all have this delusional belief that they are healthy and WILL ALWAYS BE HEALTHY and STAY OUT OF THE HOSPITAL--BECAUSE they are innately stronger, better, superior to the average person. And  of course "they take care of themselves." (As if people with medical problems were sick or injured because they don't take care of themselves.) You see, these N's "don't get sick."  The N's I have known boast about not taking medicine for anything--ever.

The N's I know wouldn't even think their joints could ever fail them. 
You just described my NM. I have listened to her blame her parents for their ailments my entire life. Guess who is now developing one of those very same ailments?  :stars:

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little fish

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2016, 03:04:28 AM »
Hello, little fish:

Isn't it baffling when you're going through a major life stress, and people who claim to love you....remain silent?

Of course, the most likely explanation for the silence would probably be the old... "I didn't know what to say."  or "I thought you needed some time to sort things out."

When you allude to a HUGE mistake that you made...without stating exactly WHAT that was...can you say what the impact on them was? Did it hurt them? Embarrass them? Infuriate them? Let them down? Did it even affect them directly? Or was it something wrong you did that affected the "family reputation?"

Did your family agree it really was a HUGE mistake, or is that just YOUR perception of how they view your mistake?

Thank you SpringLight, I'm not proud of what happened and yes I'm sure my sisters feelings were hurt but it was a issue with money I didn't have. It was a special birthday for her and I wanted to go so bad, but unfortunately with two DD's we couldn't afford the flights over, accommodation, meals etc to her state.

I didn't handle it well and I should have told her directly, but I felt so bad for first saying yes then saying no, I know the blame should be on me mainly, but when I tried to apologies in my first phone call she was very hostile.

We saw each other the day before Christmas, she was still angry I tried again to apologies again and she pushed me away. Christmas eve my parents, sisters, my BIL, their children were all together at younger sisters house.
I asked if there was anything I could bring to my youngest sister or help with in the morning, she just told me to turn up at the same time everyone else did :(

I did take the food I was asked without making waves (it wasn't cheap either), as soon as I got there my oldest sister hissed at me about my clothes. It was hot I was wearing a dress, unfortunately I didn't realize my wardrobe malfunction. My older sister did she hissed at me to get changed, I drove home upset fixed my clothing then drove back without saying anything.

As soon as I walked in the door my youngest sister told me not to sulk in her house, not on Christmas day. :(
All I did was walk back in the door, all day I was polite to both my sisters despite the bad start.
We faked it, but my Mum knew and got all pissy at me for teasing DH, we just had a funny banter about food or something we were even smiling when we did it.

At one stage my youngest sister snapped at my older sister, I left the room and didn't get involved.
Older sister went missing for a little while, came back all red faced and quiet.
I tried to enjoy myself but it was hard.

I have not spoken to her since, I invited my older to our house before she left to see our home, but she made all these excuses not too. :(

« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:21:40 AM by little fish »
I was always looking outside myself for strength and confidence, but it comes from within. It is there all of the time.
Anna Freud

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Bete Noire

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2016, 04:06:09 AM »
Before learning about all these various PD's, I simply believed that most people had "quirks" of one sort or another. I simply tried to avoid those folks with quirks that upset me. Some families are great and some are toxic hell-holes. If you find yourself with people that make you feel uncomfortable or upset every time you're with them...just break it off. No excuses given or necessary. Avoid making a scene. You cannot "fix" someone with a PD. 

As for the DP's, just quietly slip out the back door, go NC, and get on with your life.

By all means, stay in touch with those family members whose company you enjoy.

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DJR

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2016, 10:14:12 PM »
Springlight I find you very interesting and I like to hear your voice (even though we only really talk about the depressing topic of PD) on this forum. I've learned a lot reading this post so thank you for writing it.

You ask how to employ grey rock while not being a complete pushover. I think you need to examine what your boundaries are and make sure these are clear in your mind.  You can be grey rock during the more trivial situations, but when you sense that your boundaries are being approached you can clearly say this and explain what a consequence will be.

A consequence may be that you will no longer engage in the conversation and that you will go for a walk while they calm down. Or you will leave the shop/cafe and go back to the house. Or that you will clean the kitchen but they can clean the bathroom. Or you will go to the swimming pool alone without them.  If it gets so bad and they are really awful to you, perhaps you can just leave and go home. I hope this is realistic advice for you! But I understand if it is not. Dealing with PDs can be so hard and make you feel damned if you do and damned if you don't.

We have a saying in my country that you don't need to punish someone, their own bad behaviour is punishment enough. Either because they are ashamed of their own behaviour, or that other people no longer want to be around them! I know it can make a person feel like a pushover to just be a grey rock, but I'm sure that people outside your family know your quality and quiet strength.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 10:24:33 PM by DJR »

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little fish

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Re: Strategies for Using Gray Rock with N and BPDs?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2016, 08:41:22 PM »

Here is an excerpt from an earlier post:

"About 7 months ago my super bully older uBPD sister called me and told me I had been pulling away from her (we used to talk once a week but it was mostly just her talking about herself) even though she had not called me much in months. Said she wanted us to be closer (we have nothing in common, I have no respect for her, she has no self awareness and is never wrong, is a bully, very negative , and has no interest whatsoever in me or my life). I was as close to her as I could stand - the thought of being closer seemed like torture to me.  So I asked what she thought would make that happen. She kind of lost it and blamed my low frequency of visits to FOO's home (all my fault of course). Demanded to know why I didn't come home more often and stay longer.


My oldest sister said something very similar to me when I restricted her on FB, she was always running back to my parents and basically telling them everything I ever posted. If I posted something she thought was inappropriate she would text me and ask "What was that about?", or on the rare occasion she was around she would say "You're always on FB".

She denies this and instead of trying to talk about it she just defriended me and rang me up and abused me, worst was I was on a way to a funeral for my SIL's father.

My sister always has great timing, last year when I couldn't afford to fly over and see her she got pissed at me we haven't spoken face to face since Christmas :(
Even then it was filled with tension.
I was always looking outside myself for strength and confidence, but it comes from within. It is there all of the time.
Anna Freud