Can you relate?

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Foreignwoman

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Can you relate?
« on: June 04, 2016, 07:46:45 PM »
Hi  everybody,

There is something that's bothering me for a while. A good friend of mine has a relationship with a man who makes my armhair rise. Red flags everywhere. He tries to pick up a fight wherever he can. I feel anxious in his presence.

So I avoid him and try to see her alone, whitout him present. I avoid talking about him as much as possible. Keep it neutral when she brings him up in the conversation.

I feel guilty, as if I'm dishonest. As if I betray her. But I don't know what else to do. I don't want to hurt her.

It reminds me of the situation with my parents whom I left long ago and am NC with.

Can anyone relate to this?

FW
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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alonenow

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 02:32:17 AM »
                   This is a situation we all face after coming OOTF. I am sure that after coming out of fog we see red flags clearer and sometime quicker then others.  It is a real no -win situation if you attempt to tell/show her the issue she most likely will become angry and fight your insight ..........the other option which you seem to be employing of staying neutral and hoping she sees it by herself can backfire as well if she does start paying attention to the red flags and somehow thinks you knew and did not tell her.  I too feel dishonest in pretending I am not seeing what I am seeing but I have tried to get people to see the light so many times only to have it end badly. Even when they eventually saw what I told them all along it was if they were mad at me for seeing it first. they seemed shy almost avoiding me like I was going to pull a big  " i told you so"

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Foreignwoman

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 04:38:02 AM »
AloneNow,

Thank you for the insight you gave me.
I think you're right. It is a no win situation. That I feel so clearly.

The things you describe about trying to let people see what you see is so recognisable and also sad because that leaves us alone on an island. Because most people don't want to see even when they see it.

I keep silence most of the time when I see that behaviour and withdraw. Sometimes it drives me nuts and I wished I could blow all pds out like a candle.

FW

« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 04:42:36 AM by Foreignwoman »
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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Arya

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 04:02:03 PM »
Thanks for bringing this up. I have a friend I'm concerned about, similar situation.  My friend is living w I think a NPD. Friends mom is NPD. Friends partner is spitting image of the NPD mom.

It seemed ok at first. My red flags went up after I visited them, we live quite far away. We got along fine, had fun,  but I noticed the BF was really controlling, passive aggressive. Everything is his idea....they only do things with his friends...and i was surprised my friend was no longer in any contact w some of his previous longtime close friends. But the visit was fine, fun, normal.

Untill I got home. We were going to plan another visit in few months....because we had such a good time! Then out of the blue my friend called in tears saying I wouldn't be able to stay at their house...ever.

!!!! I was OoTF and i felt right way this was a control trip...not to do with me or anything I did when visiting. I talked to my friend, who was totally sobbing/ distraught. He admitted his partner made him tell me this. I told my friend, it's fine, I can stay in a hotel....because I knew my friend was in trouble and keeping our connection could help him down the road, but I should just side step any BS from partner.

We've since had conversations touching on the...issues w partner. I definitely don't feel I can speak bluntly about my suspicions. But, when my friend tells me things, opens up I let him speak, respond honestly, offer support and advice if it's asked for. I think K he knows what the partner is all about, he kinda knows he's enmeshed codependent.....but untill he's ready to exit the fig on his own....i feel I can just stay out hear with the fog light lit ready to welcome him when he seeks it.

Getting forcefully about other people's PDs and/ relationships typically does no good...may even make them try to prove you are wrong! It's like living a addict, you can extend a hand, speak truthfully in times of clarity...but they hVe to walk Out of the FOG on their own for it to " work".

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Foreignwoman

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 07:13:11 PM »
Arya

Thank you for your insight. Same here, the father of my friend abused her and when her BF looks into the water he sees her fathers reflection.

You sound like you care a lot for your friend and only want good things for him to happen. It seems confusing when all of a sudden his BF tries to isolate him from you.

It's probably best to do what you already are doing. Keep giving him space.

For me I know it's the only way too I guess. We love our friends so we want to protect them. Still it's their choice.

FW

« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 08:00:37 PM by Foreignwoman »
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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Arya

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 10:19:50 PM »
Thank you, and yes I agree. It's hard to watch when you know they deserve a healthier partner. But, they have to choose it. About 2x a year something happens and my friend opens up in a way we can speak freely. I tactfully, but honestly express my concern about the partners behavior. When this happens, it's like my old friend is back and he acknowledges he knows much of what I said is true. But, I've come to expect he will clam up and it will not be spoken of again in few days. When this happens he often says he's putting his foot down reestablishing his boundaries. Things like.....he can't call me or any friends if his partner is present. ....he calls from work, from store parking lots, or 2 and from work.....only times he's alone. And hell get all freaked and have to hang up if his partner cones home early or calls him while talking to someone else.

There's so many things wrong with that...but, he's going along with it.

I think my friend has a skewed sense of love, loving behavior ( I had similar issues before I wised up) you confuse controlling behavior with intense love. Example: i have to know where you are at all times and call u every hour because I love you so intensely. And, I love you so much I have to have you all to myself I can't share you with your friends.

To a kid who was denied nurturing and loving interactions....this control manipulation disguised as love seems like "wow" such strong love....when in fact it's such strong needy selfish  control obsession in the partner.

Unfortunately, learn these lessons often the hard way. A few times before it sinks in!

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Foreignwoman

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 04:54:23 AM »
Arya

Your friend sounds scared, like he knows something is not right with that situation. I think he needs you for his sanity. Because you are his soft place to fall. I guess he is just not ready to leave, but I'm sure you will be there if/when he is.

My friend is so in denial that she keeps telling me that he does nasty to anyone else but not to her. Hum, I would be terrified if my BF was like that and I had to watch that and talk it right to myself.
So, I think she is in it deep.

There's not so much I can do I think, other than be there in the background.

FW
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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Arya

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2016, 08:41:19 PM »
Sorry to hear that you are in this boat too. I agree with you. I've said on occasions when my friend opened up " are you safe? Because some of what you tell me makes me concerned. As your friend feel I have to say this".

I agree with you, there's an element of fear of " stuff".  You don't get tense and fearful sounding abruptly hanging up simply because your partner has pulled in the driveway.

Yes, agree, staying steady as a friend, " holding space" for when/ if he needs to reach out.

Also, he mentioned he doesn't understand why another if his best friend's....doesn't call anymore or respond to his text. Im thinking....maybe they just got sick of you not being allowed to talk on the phone or come out and play cuz daddy said No... :roll:

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Foreignwoman

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 05:36:07 AM »
Arya

When you ask him that question, 'Are you safe?'. What does he answer?

You have to be strong not saying the truth, also when he is asking himself why nobody reacts anymore.

We put ourselves in a difficult position and maybe we just have to let go that part. It's not our responsibility. Sometimes I think I project my FOO situation on my friend, and that is not fear to her.

I don't need to rescue her, only myself.

FW
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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clara

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 01:09:31 PM »
It's really  hard to see an NPD going after someone even if that person isn't anyone you particularly know or care about, let alone a friend!  Often it seems all you can do is be around to help with the damage after it's all over, but if someone's in the fog there really doesn't seem to be much you can do or say.  The other person either won't believe you or will get suspicious of you because they're only seeing the best in this person they're involved with.  You are right that you can't rescue her, but the impulse to do so can be overwhelming.  I've mentioned this in other discussions, but I'll repeat here that I have a former NPD friend who has attached himself to two people who he's just using, one of whom is an elderly man.  But I also know there's nothing I can do.  I wish I could.    He did a huge amount of psychological damage to his former partner, and I'm just waiting for him to move out of the state so I can safely contact the partner and refer him to this site.  i know he's still in the fog because up until I went NC with the NPD friend, the friend would periodically talk about his ex- because he was still in contact with some mutual friends and he would gleefully tell me about how this ex- is a mess (which I know is an exaggeration but I also know holds some truth).  The reason I don't do it now is because i am somewhat afraid of this former friend, he has BPD as well and quite a temper.  I'm waiting until he's at a safe distance before I make any moves. 

And Arya--if I didn't know better, I'd swear I know who your friend is.  Same situation with the partner of my former friend mentioned above.  The former friend has pretty much cut his partner off from all of his old friends and has managed to create scenes whenever one of the old friends come to visit (all of which I heard about because the NPD ex was quite proud and pleased of his behavior, for some reason).  The whole situation revolves around control, and my ex- has absolute and total need to control these two people now in his life.  It's sad and sick.

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openskyblue

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Re: Can you relate?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 01:33:44 PM »
When things were coming to a head with my stbxNPD husband, I was talking with a friend who gently asked me if I felt I was safe in the house with my husband. The first time he asked this, I batted the question away, assuring my friend that I was safe and fine. But later, I thought about his question. A lot.

The next time he asked me the same question, months later, I could say that I didn't know if I was safe in my home, that I felt afraid most of the time, and that I didn't know what to do. That conversation was enormously helpful to me. My friend really just listened. At the end, he told me that if I ever needed his help, all I had to do was ask. This conversation helped me talk about the abuse in my life to other very close friends. When I did I found out that many of them had been dying to talk to me about how uncomfortable my husband made them, how they saw me being isolated and depressed, and how helpless they felt to see me so unhappy.

More and more, I find myself in your shoes. It's a very delicate balance to try to help someone who you suspect is in the middle of PD-related abuse. I think the best we can do is ask gentle questions and reassure the person that we are always there to listen. Also, as in the case of my friend, he checked in on me from time to time, just to see "how things were going." Now I know that he was also checking in to see if I was ready to talk.  These days, I do the same with people in my life who I know are having a hard time.  Sometimes just knowing that someone cares to call or email can mean so much.