Any advice on distancing yourself from a PD sib you once had a strong bond with?

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IAmReady

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My uPD younger sister got married two weeks ago. I've shared on this forum about our history together, and how 7 years ago she began devaluing me (prior to that we had a close relationship, but I didn't know that our "closeness" and the way she always put me on a pedestal, was actually the love bombing of the idealization phase). There was a night and day shift in her attitude towards me, and she went almost overnight from being the most delightful person in my life (we referred to each other as "soul mates") to being one of the most difficult and downright mean.

One of her PD traits is pointless lying. I caught her in one today - she was accidentally outed by her oblivious new husband. He sent a group text asking folks to send cheery messages her way, because today is her first day back at work after her wedding/honeymoon absence. I did a double take, because she specifically told me that her first day back at work was last Tuesday (the day after Memorial Day). I remember clearly having a conversation with her the night she returned from her honeymoon (Sat the 28th). I said, "Aren't you so glad you still have two days off before you have to be back at work?" She hates her job and I knew she wasn't looking forward at all to being back in the grind. She replied, "Oh yes, I'm so glad!" And we talked about it a little more.

Now here comes her husband, 9 days later, texting to a big group that today (June 6) is actually her first day back at work, not the day after Memorial Day like she told me. Busted!

My guess is that she lied to me about this because she didn't want me to know that she had the entire week off work. If I did, I might - GASP! - actually ask her to spend time with me! Oh the horror! One of her most effective devaluation tactics the past 7 years has been to hold me at arm's length, and generally treat me as a distant third cousin at the reunion. None of the warmth and sweetness that used to characterize our relationship, before the Big Change.

Three years ago, I caught her in a similar lie. I ran into her husband (then boyfriend) when I was out jogging. He commented in passing, as though I already knew, that he and my sister would be departing for his family's vacation house the next day. They would be staying for two weeks. I was shocked, as I'd just seen my sister the day before, and she hadn't said a word about it. If I had been about to part for a two week vacation, I certainly would have mentioned it her!

With that incident, I figured that she didn't want to feel obligated to invite me to the vacation house, so she lied by omission and kept me in the dark about her plans. It took years for me to finally receive an invite to her in-laws' vacation home, even though she and her husband spent so much time there, and often by themselves. At the wedding two weeks ago, I was surprised when a friend and former coworker of my sister's, a much younger woman she'd spent time with for about a year, mentioned that she had once spent a weekend at the vacation house. I just gaped at her. I was a family member, and I wasn't invited, but this woman had somehow scored an invitation, even though she was brand new to my sister's life at that time.

These sorts of things, the lies by omission, extending warm friendship to other people while coldly excluding me, etc., have hurt me deeply. I feel stuck and unable to accept the New World Order - who my sister is now, as opposed to the very close relationship we once had. The person she is now, is someone I don't know if I even like - she is hurtful, snide, manipulative, cold, selfish and petty - pretty much the opposite of who she was before. Realizing that she, at the very least, has PD traits, if not a full-blown disorder, has been probably the biggest lightbulb moment of my life (PDs run in my family on both sides).

I've realized that I, for the past 7 years, have been serving as her scapegoat, while everyone else in her life sees someone very different. I am her punching bag, and the easy go-to person to abuse and blame when life gets tough. I've known for some time that I need to walk away from this dynamic. Confronting my sister and trying to resolve the conflict doesn't go well. I have to distance myself, but it's been such an incredible struggle for me because I haven't been able to let go of who she used to be, and the close relationship we once shared.

Any advice on distancing yourself from a PD family member who you once had a strong bond with?


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meringue

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Hi IAmReady,

Sorry to hear about your current situation with your sister. That must feel pretty terrible.

It's funny, isn't it? Sometimes they act and feel just like nons.  Maybe even better, because there are these moments it seems like they understand and connect better with us than other nons, and it just all feels right. And amazing.  I think those things make it harder for us to detach when they do things we simply can't understand. Lying for no apparent reason; the push/pull; doing things that hurt our feelings that we wouldn't do to others because we *know* it would hurt another's feelings. It sucks. 😔

Perhaps it is time to grieve your relationship with her? 😒 I wish I had something better for you, but I think the time has come.

You didn't do anything to cause her to keep you at arm's length.  And the more you want the closeness the more it will be withheld from you. All the adjectives you describe about her - cold, manipulative, selfish, petty - fit my uBPD too. I said this before but it bears repeating, it sucks. 

I have a feeling if you make a list of all the kind things you did for her you'll probably have a list as long as all the unkind things she did to you. Seeing it quantified might help you process it. I'm sure she was awesome at her best, but that probably was a sliver of the pie.

I still miss my uBPD friend. Even though I don't miss the chaos, drama, being lied to, getting shut out, and all the other completely crazy shenanigans I went through with her that I had never been through with anyone before in my life.

Hang in there. I don't know if I would say 'It gets better' but I absolutely am sure you get better at dealing with it. 😌
:hug:
There's no reasoning with unreasonable people.

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Candywarhol

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IAmReady, I'm sorry you're going though this! It sounds exactly like how my sister began treating me 3 years ago and we were extremely close in all the years before that! Other family member used to comment on how beautiful it was that we shared such a deep understanding as sisters. She also turned my younger sister against me. Never in my wildest drams would I have thought any of this was possible but here we are.
I'm afraid I have no advice as I'm still struggling myself but you're not alone.

Merengue, I think your list idea is amazing! Simple but probably very effective. I'm gonna try it, thanks ;)

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IAmReady

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It's funny, isn't it? Sometimes they act and feel just like nons.  Maybe even better, because there are these moments it seems like they understand and connect better with us than other nons, and it just all feels right. And amazing.  I think those things make it harder for us to detach when they do things we simply can't understand.

Holy cow! Yes! This is so true. With the exception of my uNPD father, all the other PDs in my life (sister, ex bf, close longtime friend) have this exact same quality - the ability to make you feel an amazingly close connection, to make you feel understood, to make you feel seen in a way that just doesn't really happen with Nons. With PDs I have connected on a level that makes everyday relationships pale in comparison.

What I didn't realize, unfortunately, is that some of that connection may be manipulation on the part of the PD - part of their disorder. They pull you close, make you feel loved and appreciated, only to push you away and leave you reeling with confusion and hurt. When a PD targets you, that's how it so often plays out - idealize/devalue/discard.

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You didn't do anything to cause her to keep you at arm's length.  And the more you want the closeness the more it will be withheld from you. All the adjectives you describe about her - cold, manipulative, selfish, petty - fit my uBPD too. I said this before but it bears repeating, it sucks. 

I have a feeling if you make a list of all the kind things you did for her you'll probably have a list as long as all the unkind things she did to you. Seeing it quantified might help you process it. I'm sure she was awesome at her best, but that probably was a sliver of the pie.

With my sister, I assumed that her altered behavior towards me, meant that I had somehow upset her, and needed to make things right, so that things could go back to the way they were. It confused me to no end when she would resist my attempts to confront and resolve the issue. Trying to talk to her about what happened, to get answers, to make amends, would elicit immediate push back from her and I could almost guarantee a big fight. She would become mean and lash out. This boggled my mind - that she seemed content to hold a grudge against me, for unknown reasons, and had no real interest in repairing our relationship. I was the person she referred to as her "soul mate"! We were as close as close could be. How could she just turn her back on what we had, and not try to save it?

Realizing that her behavior fit the blueprint of a PD, and that lots of her mean little ways were exactly in line with PD traits, this was a revelation. A very painful, but necessary one.

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FinallyPeace

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This entire thread is MY LIFE!    :aaauuugh:

My sister and I were best friends for 40 years!  In the past three years, that has all changed.  JUST HOW YOU DESCRIBED ABOVE.
It has been horrible as I did nothing wrong (believe me, I have self-evaluated and gotten input from our other siblings and mutual friends).  It is devistating.   :bawl:

As someone posted above, yes, you have to go into self-preservation mode and grieve the loss of the relationship.  It sucks since we are in the same family.   :-[

I will keep praying that God will restore our relationship.  Some how.  Some way.  Until then, you have to move forward.  :thumbdown: :'(
"Behind the smile, a hidden knife!"
― Ancient Chinese saying describing passive-aggressive behavior
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"Red flags aren't party favors.  Don't collect them."
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IAmReady

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IAmReady, I'm sorry you're going though this! It sounds exactly like how my sister began treating me 3 years ago and we were extremely close in all the years before that! Other family member used to comment on how beautiful it was that we shared such a deep understanding as sisters. She also turned my younger sister against me. Never in my wildest drams would I have thought any of this was possible but here we are.

Yes, it was exactly the same with us. I remember a friend once commenting that he had never seen any two sisters who were so close as she and I.

We have a group of mutual friends, scattered around the country, from our twentysomething college days. We stayed close with these folks and are still in regular touch with them. They were all at my sister's wedding, and it was great to see them again. They were originally my sister's friends, and she brought me into the fold, and I got to know them and formed my own relationships with them.

Because I got tight with these people during the years that my sister was still idealizing/love bombing me, one of my worries is that now she will try and sabotage these relationships, in order to isolate me further from her life. These folks are undoubtedly my friends, but they are closer with her. They knew her first. They have only ever seen her wonderful side, so they know nothing of her toxic side, and probably wouldn't believe me if I tried to explain it to them. Having to let go of these relationships would be very painful. I no longer trust my sister and don't even know what she's capable of anymore.

Candywarhol: Was there any incident at all that happened in conjunction with your sister turning on you? Do you have any theories as to what precipitated the change?

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IAmReady

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My sister and I were best friends for 40 years!  In the past three years, that has all changed.  JUST HOW YOU DESCRIBED ABOVE.
It has been horrible as I did nothing wrong (believe me, I have self-evaluated and gotten input from our other siblings and mutual friends).  It is devistating.

FinallyPeace - Do you believe your sister is a PD? I would love to hear more about what happened with the two of you. When did you first notice something had changed?

I still remember very clearly the first time I noticed something was off with my sister. I can pinpoint the exact incident. She lived overseas for about six years, and was going to be returning for the summer, and spending part of the time with me. Two of our friends were marrying each other that summer, and we needed to make travel arrangements to get to their out of state wedding, including finding a rental car.

I was totally shocked when she began being very uncharacteristically petty and difficult about the rental car arrangements - I found her behavior strangely uncooperative and selfish, and I called her out on it in an email. I still have the email. My tone in it was upbeat and affectionate, even as I called her out for how she was behaving, and asking if anything was wrong? There was a spirit of selfishness and ungenerosity in this whole incident that really struck me, because it seemed so unlike the sister that I had come to know and love.

It is sad now to re-read that email, as my tone is full of confidence in her and our relationship. I had no idea what was brewing on the horizon, and didn't perceive that this was just the first unpleasant sign of things to come.

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SpringLight

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Hello, IAmReady:

Your painful, bewildering experience with your sister resonated with me--however "the sister" in question is actually a previously very, very close friend.  Only in time, did I realize she is a (non-malignant) N.

In my case, The Big Change didn't happen overnight. As I look back, the first thing I noticed was the strange, inexplicable withholding of information.  And this became the norm with her. I would inquire about and discuss our regular "topics"--mainly hers, but also some of mine.  But, she would reply with a one line reply. Then, in time, it was me doing 90%, and she would do 10%.

On her birthday, a number of years ago, I called her to leave a birthday message, which went to voice mail. A week or so later, I emailed her and asked her how her birthday was. To my utter shock, she said she had been "away" for a week with her entire extended family (it was a milestone birthday). They went to a very exotic overseas vacation!!!  I was dumbfounded because we had been regular contact via email forever prior to that  I mean, one to say ten times a week, typically at that time.  I know her family well, and frequently ask about them.  So, I asked about this overseas vacation and said: "Wow, that's great. Last minute planning, yet you pulled it off."  She blandly said: "No.... we had planned this trip for long while."

Huh?!

Planned something this spectacular for a long while, but you failed to mention it to me??...someone you know would have been
your biggest cheerleader. And someone who would love to hear about the details of her travel and celebration.

I remember thinking at the time..."gee, that was really strange."  :stars:

In time, I began to see that her interaction with me was getting...well, sloppy and (deliberately?) careless.  Her correspondence  became "lazier" and "lazier."  It was half-assed. Two or three lines.

She is an Ivy-League educated smart woman, but her email responses were short, often filled with confusing typos and bad punctuation, which made her messages confusing.  Worst of all, she started IGNORING many (MOST) topics that we previously regularly discussed in email or on the phone.  She started overlooking most things in my life, and she wouldn't respond to caring questions I had about HER life, and her family.

Her interactions with me were all insipid. No follow-ups.

Meanwhile, she was having warm interactions with other new friends. To others there were plenty of regular emails/chats--but from what I know...there were no typos.

Then, she had a death in her family. I reached out to her, but she was seemed unwilling to talk about it. I then wrote her about how I wanted to respect her grief, and told her if she needed "her space" that was okay. I would always be here for her. She wrote back
 something about yes, she needed her space.

<<crickets>>>


So, like you, none of the sweetness and warmth, and none of the INTIMACY.  She's done a 180 and has become cold, sarcastic and cynical. Meanwhile, she is extending warmth to new people...So, yes, I feel she treats me "as a distant third cousin at the reunion."

After about 5 or more years of this...I started going MC on her. I thought MC would lead to NC, and I would let it die a natural death.  It was so very painful for me.

Nowadays, I never initiate anything anymore. But, oddly she does. Every 4-6 months, she tries to Hoover me back in  with insipid one-line inquiries... Checking to see I'm not dead, really. Checking to see she knows where I am.  Because even when I give her plenty of material for discussion, she never responds! Ever! Just a drive-by quick Hoover. Until the nest time. And then she's MIA for months.

More later--I'm a little bit further along than you, but not by much.  Still trying to make sense of this...But, just wanted to say "I feel your pain."

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FinallyPeace

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Because I got tight with these people during the years that my sister was still idealizing/love bombing me, one of my worries is that now she will try and sabotage these relationships, in order to isolate me further from her life. These folks are undoubtedly my friends, but they are closer with her. They knew her first. They have only ever seen her wonderful side, so they know nothing of her toxic side, and probably wouldn't believe me if I tried to explain it to them. Having to let go of these relationships would be very painful. I no longer trust my sister and don't even know what she's capable of anymore.
I've had the same things, too.  I'm still friends with the same mutual friends on FB (her group) and of course, I still have all my life long friends.  I have reached out to two of her friends (I'm friends, too, but she was my sister's friends first) to ask if they had noticed anything "different going on" with her.  Of course, I made sure I could trust them not to say anything to her as I didn't want to start WWIII all over again.

Friend #1 sees her all the time in social circles, etc. and said she doesn't hang out with her otherwise because she's negative and b!tchy (moreso than before). 

Friend #2 doesn't talk to her all that much anymore (different state) and was completely shocked of what was going on.

The rest I'm not contacting.  If they want to believe her lies and shenanigans, so be it.  I can't save the world.
"Behind the smile, a hidden knife!"
― Ancient Chinese saying describing passive-aggressive behavior
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"Red flags aren't party favors.  Don't collect them."
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FinallyPeace

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FinallyPeace - Do you believe your sister is a PD? I would love to hear more about what happened with the two of you. When did you first notice something had changed?

I still remember very clearly the first time I noticed something was off with my sister. I can pinpoint the exact incident. She lived overseas for about six years, and was going to be returning for the summer, and spending part of the time with me. Two of our friends were marrying each other that summer, and we needed to make travel arrangements to get to their out of state wedding, including finding a rental car.

I was totally shocked when she began being very uncharacteristically petty and difficult about the rental car arrangements - I found her behavior strangely uncooperative and selfish, and I called her out on it in an email. I still have the email. My tone in it was upbeat and affectionate, even as I called her out for how she was behaving, and asking if anything was wrong? There was a spirit of selfishness and ungenerosity in this whole incident that really struck me, because it seemed so unlike the sister that I had come to know and love.

It is sad now to re-read that email, as my tone is full of confidence in her and our relationship. I had no idea what was brewing on the horizon, and didn't perceive that this was just the first unpleasant sign of things to come.

Funny...one of the downward spiral incidents I remember was about a trip, too.   :blink:

I was traveling from State A, Sister was traveling from State B and we were going to meet up at Point C.  My drive was 8 hours, her drive was 2 hours.  She wanted me to drive from State A, to her State B and then both of us drive together to Point C (adding 4 hours onto my entire trip, not to mention gas).  I just couldn't understand the logic.  I explained why it wasn't feasible and that I would meet her at Point C like we had discussed. 

She got a little "testy" at the time, but I dismissed it and another family member (that I ran the scenaro by to see if it was my logic that was off), said if Sister didn't like it, then go without her.  I intended to do just that and then Sister came around, we had a nice time at Point C.  No big deal. 

Well, after the big blow up a year later, she has brought this EXACT trip up twice.  How I was selfish for not driving to State B, how everything has to be my way, etc.  I told her that the same could be said for her and her expectations.

Since I have refused to be the SG anymore (and my NPD mother passed away), I've lost two of my sisters (there are 4 sisters and 1 brother).  After our mom got sick, Sister started spending a lot of time with another one of our PD sisters.  Some crazy things have happened and the PD sister and my Sister are as thick as thieves.

It has been heartbreaking for me.  I am now closest to my other sister and brother.  My brother stays out of everything.  He thinks "everyone is crazy."  Which he is right about. :sly:      My other sister called everyone out on their bad behavior (Sister and PD Sister).  They don't like that either, so they have quit talking to her, too.

The first I really noticed something was "off" was a few years ago.  She complained that she was seeing her doctor because her hormones were messed up and the doctor seemed to think it may be early menopause.  Sister also suffers from mild depression and I mentioned before things got bad between us that maybe she needs to have her meds adjusted. 

I think the last thing was our PD mom's terminal illness/subsequent death.  Everything all rolled into one (early menopause, depression, family death), but I am the one at fault, she hates ME and obviously I am to blame for world hunger, too.   :evil2: 

Although, I see "glimpses" of the old Sister that was my BFF since she came home from the hospital as a newborn, I don't see or talk to her otherwise.  Unfortunately, I was closest with her, so it hurts the most that when she cut off a bunch of people, I was one of them.  She has no explanation still and I've left her be.  Figured if she was trying to deal with her issues "her way," she's an adult and that is up to her.

Fast forward to now...she has gotten progressively "uglier" towards me (indirectly, since I don't talk to her anymore) and a few others. 

I don't get it...if you want to write off a bunch of your closest friends/family, then so be it.  Why bad mouth and talk nasty stuff about them NOW?  You don't want people in your business, so why are you inserting yourself into other people's business?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 04:30:08 PM by FinallyPeace »
"Behind the smile, a hidden knife!"
― Ancient Chinese saying describing passive-aggressive behavior
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"Red flags aren't party favors.  Don't collect them."
--Unknown

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amazedsister

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Be careful!  I called my sister out on her lies.  Now I am ENEMY #1 for her.  She has told me that I am 'dead' to her.  She has told me to never set foot in her house, etc.  She has made up stuff and threatened to sue me.  She has had the police call me.  She is VERY convincing with her lies.

Thank GOD, I showed 1 member of the family something to PROVE that she was lying.  I would not have survived without that. 

I just have no contact with her.  I had been NO CONTACT since July 2015 until I fell for something last week.  NEVER again.  I got her WRATH on Sunday.

Just be warned and be careful.  She will reach out to you.  It is all a farce.  She is sucking you back into her 'games'.

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DaisyGirl77

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I don't have any advice; just sharing what happened to me.

My uBPD cousin & I are 3 months apart.  We grew up together for a while, so we were more like sisters than cousins.  In third grade, our parents had a horrific fight (about what remains a mystery), & our friendship ended then because her father told her about their fight & she took her dad's side.  I spent months trying to reestablish our friendship because, even then I knew that whatever our parents were fighting about had nothing to do with us.  It didn't happen.  We reconnected after we graduated high school & our friendship picked up right where we left off.  We just had to fill in the blanks.

A few years into our re-established friendship, she told me some things I thought were huge red flags.  We had our first fight when she told me that her then-boyfriend (now ex, thank god) & she had been shot at while he was buying drugs.  "The adrenaline!  What a rush!  It was so exciting!"  All I could think about was how stupid she was for thinking it was exciting when he was putting her (& his own self) in danger.  She was dreaming of having children with this guy & she couldn't see the forest for the trees, so I exploded.

She wouldn't talk to me for a week.

A couple more years into it, she started disappearing on me for weeks...& then months at a time.  She wouldn't answer her emails, texts, IMs, phone calls... NOTHING.  The first few times, I freaked thinking she was in the hospital somewhere.  She told me that she did this regularly.  I told her she needed to give me some warning so I wouldn't think she's dead.

Then came the bombshell:  I had been living with my dad's mom for about a year, & had woken up a little earlier than usual because I needed to use the bathroom.  I walked out & was about to turn back into my room, when I saw my dad's mom & my cousin chatting on Skype.  My cousin asked if I was up.  She said, "No."  Of course I stayed to see what was going on.

I shit you not, I literally heard my world shatter.  I heard the sound of glass & bricks, cement, etc. crumbling.  She had eviscerated me so completely & had my dad's mom completely supporting her opinion of me that I thought I was standing upside down.  & EVERYTHING she said was pure projection &/or lies, along with secrets I'd told her.

It was then that I knew I could never trust her.  She had only put on the act to gain my trust in order to do this to me.

A few hours later, she emailed me asking how I slept, nattering on about her own life.  I went for the truth & told her I wasn't going to respond to her for a while.  I got vitriol in return.

I posted a thorough evisceration of her on my private blog (that she, at the time, only knew the link to) 3 days later.  It took me that long to digest my feelings of shock, betrayal, anger, & hurt.  By the amount of visits to that particular blog, I know she had to go on it & reread everything I'd written multiple times because it so completely stunned her.  I wouldn't be surprised to know that she had shown different people what I'd said.  I later posted an apology because I felt awful for the things I said.  I don't regret a word because she really needed to hear it all, but I do regret how I went about it.

Now, we only speak once in a great while.  Mostly, it's me harassing her for her next payment (she owes me a lot of money).  She knows I'll sue her.  There is nothing holding me back from this.  Not after that.  Not after me seeing so many things wrong with her relationship with her own father (he "adjusted her boobs" (his hands were INSIDE HER WEDDING DRESS) on her wedding day for chrissake!).  I know too much, & she knows I will hang her, her father, & her grandma (my dad's mom) out to dry if she dares attempt to come after me again.

So for me, I couldn't back away slowly.  Circumstances didn't allow for that.  I backed far, far away, & have stayed far, far away from her crazy.  After what I went through with my dad's mom, I have no intention of ever stepping foot back in that side of the family ever again.
I lived with my dad's uPD mom for 3.5 years.  This is my story:  http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=59780.0  (TW for abuse descriptions.)

"You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep others warm." - Anonymous

NC with uNM since December 2016.  VLC with uPDF.

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Summer Sun

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Wow.  WOW!  I am sorry for your sibling experiences, the pain, the deep sense of betrayal and loss that wounds the heart, spirit, soul.  This, an added layer to childhood losses, sufferings, abuses. 

Again, I could have written verbatim a number of experiences.  Soul mate like connectedness, closeness, confidantes.  The subtle changes.  One line responses.  Zero responses.  Lack of ownership and accountability relationally.  Sudden withdrawal, devaluation, no explanation.  Crazy is the person who attempts to rationally discuss and resolve.  What problem?  The p/a behaviors.  The favouritism.  The exclusion.  Subtle put downs.  Occasional baiting, crumbs,  attempts to Hoover.  Projection??? Wow. 

Advice?  Well, these sibs, the last of FOO, meant my entire FOO wiped out in one swoop.  Two deceased.  Two emotionally deceased.  There are the five stages of grief one has to work through.  I've been depressed and grieving for 3 years.  I think I have come to acceptance.  More importantly, I think I have come to face reality.  To really see sibs for who they really are.  And, they are not trustworthy, they are incapable of being who I whimsically wish (and thought) they could be (or were in the love bombing or using phase of relationship).  They are wounded and incapable.  Damaged.  Does it hurt?  Hell yes.  Can I fix it?  Hell no.  Can we have dialogue?  No sense JADEing. 

What I can do is protect myself from abuse.  I can develop FOC as I have no family.  I've been smeared with extended family.  I accept I have no control over others, and those who are incapable of judging for themselves (and why would they doubt what's been fed).  I can have gratitude for the blessings (many) I have.  I can pray for them.  And pray for me, that one day, I will make it to the other side of pain.

Hugs to cyber sibs.  Know you are loveable and worthy.

Summer Sun
"The opposite of Love is not Hate, it's Indifference" - Elie Wiesel

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IAmReady

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The first I really noticed something was "off" was a few years ago.  She complained that she was seeing her doctor because her hormones were messed up and the doctor seemed to think it may be early menopause.  Sister also suffers from mild depression and I mentioned before things got bad between us that maybe she needs to have her meds adjusted. 

I think the last thing was our PD mom's terminal illness/subsequent death.  Everything all rolled into one (early menopause, depression, family death), but I am the one at fault, she hates ME and obviously I am to blame for world hunger, too.   :evil2: 

The precipitating event that (IMO) was a major cause of the Big Change with my sister, was seven years ago, when I personally coordinated an intervention, including hiring a professional deprogrammer, to get her out of a yoga cult she'd been involved with for seven years. She was so deeply under their control that she agreed to move to South Korea (their headquarters) and ended up living there for most of her twenties.

One of her close friends in the group had been raped by the guru, and it came out that he was a sexual predator who had assaulted many of his young pretty female devotees. He was a classic narc/sociopath predator who was so charismatic he convinced thousands of people around the world that he was this enlightened being, an angel of light.

I confronted my sister with all of the damaging information I had about the group - by this point a class action lawsuit had been filed against the guru by dozens of former teachers, and included testimony from my sister's friend, the one who was raped. Some of these people's stories, the way the cult had ruined their lives and health, was heartbreaking.

My sister wanted nothing to do with it, and became enraged when I wanted to talk to her about it. She had been carefully programmed to resist any and all criticism of the group. She kept insisting that her friend's rape "had nothing to do with her. That's her body, her life, her experience, not mine." It was at this point that I realized she had been deeply brainwashed, and that it was going to take professional help to get her out. She'd become very unhappy, after living in South Korea for six years, had become gaunt and unhealthy-looking, and I believe would have eventually become suicidal if she'd stayed on there much longer. But she had no plans to leave, because the cult had such firm control of her mind.

Within the space of four months, I'd found a professional deprogrammer (called "cult exit strategist"), organized family, friends and former members of the cult who'd been close to my sister, to participate in a 5-day intervention. The intervention was ultimately successful, and my sister didn't return to the cult.

It was after the intervention, when she officially moved back to the States and into my apartment I shared with my then fiance, that it became obvious her behavior towards me had altered, and she became petty, cold, distant, selfish, and flat out b*tchy. I was appalled, and have assumed for years that she harbored a lot of anger towards me for taking her away from her cult life. She speaks very disparagingly of the cult now, and acknowledges that they are bad news. However, she completely denies that her cold treatment of me has anything to do with the intervention, and she will become annoyed if I try to insist that it does.

The most explanation she's ever given, is that, during the two years she lived with me and my fiance, I was a nuisance because I knocked on her door too often, wanting to chat, and didn't give her her space. If that is true, I would certainly love to be able to go back in time and behave differently - I wanted only to be close to her, and to help her. My intentions were good. But her explanation sounds wrong to me - knocking on her door too often, and not giving her a wide berth during that time period, were enough justification to completely alter her treatment of me, forever after, the person who'd been her closest friend and supporter?

And I noticed the change before she ever moved in with me (starting with the rental car arrangements that I shared about above). So my being too much in her business after she moved in, is not the actual reason. But I have noticed this exact same sort of "logic" with PDs - if you confront them about the way they are treating you, they will sometimes alter the timeline, so that something you did or said after their mistreatment, is identified as the reason. In other words, their bad behavior is your fault. My ex uNPD/ASPD boyfriend is a master of this.

Most often though, my sister is never able to identify any reason - she will usually laugh coldly and imply that I'm an idiot for not already knowing. She will describe me as "someone she needs to set firm boundaries with." She will imply that she's discussed me with mysterious others and everyone agrees. She will call me "difficult" and a "walking sh*t show" and a "nightmare." She once refused to let me spend a night or two at HER house she shares with her now husband, during what was a terrible neverending construction project in my neighborhood that was interfering with my sleep and generally making everyone miserable, because she insisted that she and I would end up fighting. I couldn't be trusted to behave myself for even one night without creating drama.  :stars:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 12:46:45 PM by IAmReady »

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Foreignwoman

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IAR

It sounds familiar, what you describe about your sister.

 I've been thinking, one of the things bothering you is the fact that she didn't invite you to the family vacation home. Perhaps the reason for that is that she knows she has to show her real self, when you spend a vacation with her. Then it's almost impossible to keep hiding her real self and her mask will fall of. I don't know if you and her had a vacation with each other lately?

Going NC would be my advise, because those people mostly don't change, but I don't know if you are ready for that or that is what you want.

Take care

FW
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:49:25 PM by Foreignwoman »
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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Candywarhol

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 Was there any incident at all that happened in conjunction with your sister turning on you? Do you have any theories as to what precipitated the change?

Yes, there was. In 2012 she was diagnosed with breast cancer. I went into a tailspin trying to find as many ways to support her as I could, both physically and mentally.
She was distraught, angry, afraid, confused, mournful and, I think, ashamed.
We would be on the phone at all hours of the day and night especially when her catastrophic
thinking got the upper hand. I would stay on the phone and encourage her quietly and calmly, and talk her down, while inside I was petrified of losing my best friend (someone
who had also taken on a maternal role in my life from time to time, as I had in hers. Our mother wasn't very nurturing).

I can't sit and do nothing in such situations. My natural reaction was to take action… to help her to take action.
During this time in which she was breaking down regularly out of mortal fear, I said a few times that I was concerned for her mental health/
strength/soul disposition.. whatever you want to call it. She was in such despair that my feeling was that she needed support to get her head in the right place so as to be able to go through treatment and make a full recovery. I wasn't worried that her body would become so ill but that her mental state needed bolstering in order for her to
go through what was ahead of her. I felt I could hear her giving up, cutting her losses.
Despite my own fear, I have a good knowledge of nutritional and natural healing methods, which I proffered without pressure, while also emphasising that whatever
course of treatment she chose to take, I would stand by her decision. She chose chemo and radiation. I offered everything I knew about, that would relieve the
effects of chemo and some other methods that help in healing and prevention post treatment.
Everyone has different opinions when it comes to this issue. My thinking was that she needs to do whatever she believes in, anything else won't work.

She accepted all my offers of supplements etc., which I bought and sent to her. There was absolutely NO WAY she wanted me to visit while she was ill (we live in
different countries). Once she was over the worst, we had a weekend planned where I would come and visit her. Two weeks before she told me she was hosting
my parents that weekend so it wasn't convenient for me to come. I had a flight booked. - I've been in her house with my parents many times before. I thought maybe after treatment she didn't want too many people there, so …fine.

Then she told me that the gold chain I had given her for Christmas (which I felt she didn't like) had become misshapen and she was going to take it
to the jeweller, sell the gold and buy something else. I was very upset. This call came at a time when a business venture of mine hit the wall and
I was having my own "tests" from fate. There was a LOT going on for me at the time, which I had kept from her. I was crying on the phone during this conversation. I asked her to send me a pic of the chain
seeing as it would be under guarantee and I would contact the jeweller. She was very harumphed at this, sent the picture but made it sound like I didn't believe her and was inconveniencing her.
That wasn't the point at all.
Anyway I gave her the feedback from the jeweller that one shouldn't sleep wearing this type of chain because it does get bent out of shape. At that she blew up in my face telling
me that she had bigger fish to fry and what the hell was I so upset about.
From then on communication was not great.
… In the meantime I inadvertently realised that she hadn't taken the supplements I'd sent her. I need to stress here that I always only
offered, there was no duress …..
A few months later she came to visit me. She bitched and moaned about everyone at home. Was very unhappy with her short-haired appearance and nothing was right. I tried to be understanding and lighten things up from time to time. After two
days she ended up on a crying jag, which lasted two days until she left. I had NO IDEA what to do with her or for her.
I think she was in a complete hormonal maelstrom - she had started HRT a couple of weeks before. I tried comforting, leaving her alone,
suggesting courses of action offering to do whatever I could … nothing helped.

Hours before the crying jag, she was bitching about our other sister and I calmly asked her to stop. She looked at me like she wanted to stab me!

I have no idea whether the crying was perhaps offset by shame caused by my asking her to stop bashing the other sister.

After she returned home all her communication was cursory and cold. I tried to talk to her twice about this. The first time she said there was nothing wrong.
The second time I got a bunch of abuse saying she's not responsible for me, (funny cos I had ben the one who was taking responsibility(?)), I'm too sensitive, I need to chill the eff out and so on.
she also said I hadn't coped very well when she broke down in my house.

From the time of her diagnosis I was afraid of losing my sister. Now I've lost her anyway. She hangs out with in-laws that she had had nothing good to say about in all the years before! In fact she'd been very vociferous about how terrible they were.


SpringLight: Planned something this spectacular for a long while, but you failed to mention it to me??...someone you know would have been
your biggest cheerleader. And someone who would love to hear about the details of her travel and celebration.


I had a lot of those incidents as well :( My sister went on holiday with said in-laws and I found out form my dad. Normally it would have been me who knew her plans. I knew whether or not she was going to the supermarket on any given day FFS:

So, like you, none of the sweetness and warmth, and none of the INTIMACY.

I mentioned that to my sis on the phone too - all the warmth between us seemed to be gone. And she just agreed!

I'm still stumped and hurt. With hindsight I realise that maybe my trying to help came from codependency. Maybe it was too much or not the right kind of help.
Still I'm being punished now for three years and she's pulled my other sister on side against me. I was the one who tried to create harmony between all of us
and now I'm a pariah. My parents won't get involved - probably better but my mother did say … "after what she's been through I'd be afraid to upset the apple cart but something has
to be done. What  happens when your father and I aren't here anymore. What are we leaving behind??!!" ( sort for the repetition, I know I posted that on another thread)

I can and will not approach either of them to try and straighten this out.
I asked about/called them out on behaviours, ways they have treated/spoken to me and what I got back was a complete assassination of my entire character!

It hurts like hell to be outside of this group of people but how good could they be for me when they just allow me to be treated like this anyway?!

Sorry for going on … and for my use of expletives :-\
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 04:48:46 PM by Candywarhol »

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Candywarhol

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ForeignWoman Perhaps the reason for that is that she knows she has to show her real self, when you spend a vacation with her. Then it's almost impossible to keep hiding her real self and her mask will fall of.

BINGO!!

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Prosperpine

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This thread is very helpful to me right now. I'm sorry for the pain you're all dealing with and just want to say that by talking about it you are helping me a lot.

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Foreignwoman

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Prosperphine

It's OK to just read all the posts. Perhaps when you are ready you tell us little things about yourself too.

 :cloud9:

FW
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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SpringLight

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Candywarhol:

It sounds like your sister's cancer diagnosis has had more of a deleterious effect on your relationship with her than even you realize. I'm so sorry-- it sounds as though you gave your heart and soul to help your sister during the crisis of her life.  Of course, it was a crisis for YOU, too. Cancer sucks.

Cancer can often bring people together, but not always. And often, when it does, a cancer diagnosis can FIRST cause a tremendous strain on relationships. For a myriad of reasons.

You wrote:

"Despite my own fear, I have a good knowledge of nutritional and natural healing methods, which I proffered without pressure, while also emphasising that whatever
course of treatment she chose to take, I would stand by her decision. She chose chemo and radiation. I offered everything I knew about, that would relieve the
effects of chemo and some other methods that help in healing and prevention post treatment.
Everyone has different opinions when it comes to this issue. My thinking was that she needs to do whatever she believes in, anything else won't work."


You also wrote:

"In the meantime I inadvertently realised that she hadn't taken the supplements I'd sent her."


I do NOT think we can assume that she did not take them BECAUSE she was rejecting you or your rejecting your help.

It's a fact that many  supplements and herbs and "natural healing methods" can INTERFERE with chemo and radiation efficacy. 

Oncologists therefore urge patients to check with them before taking ANYTHING outside the prescribed treatment plan. With good reason.  You may have done thorough research, but, even if you are a health professional,  your sister's particular cancer doctors may not feel comfortable potentially compromising her individualized care (radiation and chemo) with some or any supplements.

So, it could have been your sister's doctor who disapproved of the supplements, and your sister was simply following his/her instructions.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 11:57:19 PM by SpringLight »