Any advice on distancing yourself from a PD sib you once had a strong bond with?

  • 33 Replies
  • 6038 Views
*

Bete Noire

  • New Member
  • *
  • 26
ForeignWoman Perhaps the reason for that is that she knows she has to show her real self, when you spend a vacation with her. Then it's almost impossible to keep hiding her real self and her mask will fall of.

BINGO!!

I agree.  :yes:

She may wear a different mask depending on the people she's with. All based on a tissue of lies. DP's sure are spontaneous liars, adept at gaslighting those whose favor they wish to curry. It's amazing how many people fall for their lies hook, line and sinker. It took months to get my head around how profuse a liar my uNPD brother is. I can't even imagine what's going on inside his head. The thing with lies is that they're only a veneer....it doesn't take much probing before the inevitable inconsistencies become obvious. The greater the number of lies, the greater the number of inconsistencies. Debunk one lie and their entire facade can collapse. I took a wrecking ball to my uNPD brothers carefully crafted facade. If they're making an unavoidable mess of your life, you need to neuter them and that's what you have to do.

*

Candywarhol

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 88
SpringLight: So, it could have been your sister's doctor who disapproved of the supplements, and your sister was simply following his/her instructions.


She had checked with her onco. He had no idea about nutrition and said she should do whatever she wanted with the supplements in question. They wouldn't hinder the treatment but probably wouldn't help. She was frustrated with him at the time for his lack of knowledge or interest.
I didn't mention the supplement issue because I feel insulted or rejected. I just took her letting the sups. on the shelf and not even mentioning that she'd decided not to take them as a sign that maybe there was some much deeper conflict going on; saying yes when she perhaps really meant no (?)

*

FinallyPeace

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 148
Quote
IAmReady:  "The most explanation she's ever given, is that, during the two years she lived with me and my fiance, I was a nuisance because I knocked on her door too often, wanting to chat, and didn't give her her space. If that is true, I would certainly love to be able to go back in time and behave differently - I wanted only to be close to her, and to help her. My intentions were good. But her explanation sounds wrong to me - knocking on her door too often, and not giving her a wide berth during that time period, were enough justification to completely alter her treatment of me, forever after, the person who'd been her closest friend and supporter?

And I noticed the change before she ever moved in with me (starting with the rental car arrangements that I shared about above). So my being too much in her business after she moved in, is not the actual reason. But I have noticed this exact same sort of "logic" with PDs - if you confront them about the way they are treating you, they will sometimes alter the timeline, so that something you did or said after their mistreatment, is identified as the reason. In other words, their bad behavior is your fault. My ex uNPD/ASPD boyfriend is a master of this.

Most often though, my sister is never able to identify any reason - she will usually laugh coldly and imply that I'm an idiot for not already knowing. She will describe me as "someone she needs to set firm boundaries with." She will imply that she's discussed me with mysterious others and everyone agrees. She will call me "difficult" and a "walking sh*t show" and a "nightmare."

Yes.  All of this.   :yeahthat:  I have been through, too.
"Behind the smile, a hidden knife!"
― Ancient Chinese saying describing passive-aggressive behavior
*
"Red flags aren't party favors.  Don't collect them."
--Unknown

*

NewFreedom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 43
I don't have any positive advice to give, as in "I would do this", but I can give you some advice as to what NOT to do! I recently had a huge fight with my uNPD older sister and it was terrible. I allowed my resentment and anger toward her to build up for over 2 years and I finally let it all out after she did something small. What ended up happening is she thinks I'm upset because of the small thing, and I got way too angry and said a lot of things that she now holds against me.

My advice is to not let things build up, and to not let it out in a verbal fight. My conversation with my sister didn't start out as a fight, but turned into one because she sure knows how to push my buttons (I don't get angry easily and I certainly don't yell at people often). I also let my emotions take over and chose the worst time to bring all this up to her- months before my wedding. She then decided not to go to my wedding, and convinced her three kids and husband not to go either.

I'm not sure which PD you suspect your sister has, but NPD'ers are master manipulators, gaslighters, and fact distorters!

Over the past 2 years, I tried to distance myself from her, but I hadn't realized her full mental illness, and I still had hope that we could have a relationship. If I could go back, I would have distanced myself completely from her and made it clear that I don't want to be around her unless I had to. No verbal fight would have ever taken place. I tried to have a discussion with her about something that was bothering me and it turned into a huge dramatic fight- you know why? Because PD's do not have empathy and cannot communicate like non-PD's.

Hope this helps in some way.

*

IAmReady

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 539
Quote
Your painful, bewildering experience with your sister resonated with me--however "the sister" in question is actually a previously very, very close friend.  Only in time, did I realize she is a (non-malignant) N.

SpringLight - Thanks so much for sharing the awful slow demise of your relationship with your friend. Can I ask... why do you believe she is a narcissist? 

*

IAmReady

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 539
IAR

It sounds familiar, what you describe about your sister.

 I've been thinking, one of the things bothering you is the fact that she didn't invite you to the family vacation home. Perhaps the reason for that is that she knows she has to show her real self, when you spend a vacation with her. Then it's almost impossible to keep hiding her real self and her mask will fall of. I don't know if you and her had a vacation with each other lately?

Going NC would be my advise, because those people mostly don't change, but I don't know if you are ready for that or that is what you want.

Take care

FW

Very interesting.

She began dating her now husband five years ago. From the get-go, she has triangulated us. If I had ever been invited, it would have been just the 3 of us on the trip, at his family's vacation home about a 3 hour drive outside the city. It's obviously her wish to avoid this set-up - as I shared, she's even "forgotten" to tell me about the trips she takes there - she throws a cloak of secrecy over that whole part of her life. I have wondered if the person she is with him, and the person she is with me, are different, and she doesn't want us to be in too much proximity to each other. The thought has crossed my mind.

Years ago she began telling me many unflattering things about her husband - vicious, below the belt things he would say to her during fights. In general she painted him to be a selfish, immature, ungenerous, entitled sort of person - a spoiled rich kid living off his parents' money. Naturally, I didn't like him very much, and thought she could do better. She almost broke up with him more than once.

Over time, I became aware that this unflattering version of him that I was being fed, was quite different from the version she was telling her other friends. They were all told only positive things, and that she thought he might be the One. They were all excited and happy for her.

I was so convinced that the version of events she'd given me (the unflattering portrayal of him) was the TRUE version, and what she was telling everyone else was the false version, that I flat out said to a mutual friend, "Oh she'll never marry that guy! There's just no way!" And I believed it.

Well, three weeks ago they tied the knot. She was happy as could be. I ended up feeling isolated and out of the loop at the wedding weekend, because everyone else had long been happy for her, and had been told all along that she thought he might be the One. It occurred to me for the first time that perhaps I was the one who had been given the false version.

For whatever reason, she has been very reluctant to bring me together with her now husband, and we have never (he and I) been alone, not even once in five years, not even for half an hour. The only time I have been invited to his family's vacation home, is if there is a crowd of people there. Perhaps, being in a big quiet house like that, in a secluded setting, just the 3 of us, is something she wishes to avoid, because of what you say - she wouldn't be able to maintain her mask. With me there, all bets are off. Her toxic side comes out - she wouldn't be able to hide it. Also, she's told me one version of events, and him another, I suspect about all kinds of things, and she doesn't want us to ever be able to compare notes.

I also know that he has been spun a very unflattering version of me, and that he has bought into it completely. Clearly she doesn't want us to like or know each other, so we have been manipulated to be at odds. On the other hand, she wants him to be liked by her Fan Club (her circle of devoted close friends), and so they have been told only flattering things about him, and have been given a completely different version of their relationship. Again, this has served the added bonus of making me feel even more cut out of her life.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 10:46:21 PM by IAmReady »

*

IAmReady

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 539
Quote
IAmReady:  "The most explanation she's ever given, is that, during the two years she lived with me and my fiance, I was a nuisance because I knocked on her door too often, wanting to chat, and didn't give her her space. If that is true, I would certainly love to be able to go back in time and behave differently - I wanted only to be close to her, and to help her. My intentions were good. But her explanation sounds wrong to me - knocking on her door too often, and not giving her a wide berth during that time period, were enough justification to completely alter her treatment of me, forever after, the person who'd been her closest friend and supporter?

And I noticed the change before she ever moved in with me (starting with the rental car arrangements that I shared about above). So my being too much in her business after she moved in, is not the actual reason. But I have noticed this exact same sort of "logic" with PDs - if you confront them about the way they are treating you, they will sometimes alter the timeline, so that something you did or said after their mistreatment, is identified as the reason. In other words, their bad behavior is your fault. My ex uNPD/ASPD boyfriend is a master of this.

Most often though, my sister is never able to identify any reason - she will usually laugh coldly and imply that I'm an idiot for not already knowing. She will describe me as "someone she needs to set firm boundaries with." She will imply that she's discussed me with mysterious others and everyone agrees. She will call me "difficult" and a "walking sh*t show" and a "nightmare."

Yes.  All of this.   :yeahthat:  I have been through, too.

FinallyPeace - Would you care to share more about this? I would really love to hear more about your experience with this sort of behavior.

*

IAmReady

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 539
Quote
My advice is to not let things build up, and to not let it out in a verbal fight. My conversation with my sister didn't start out as a fight, but turned into one because she sure knows how to push my buttons (I don't get angry easily and I certainly don't yell at people often). I also let my emotions take over and chose the worst time to bring all this up to her- months before my wedding. She then decided not to go to my wedding, and convinced her three kids and husband not to go either.

I'm not sure which PD you suspect your sister has, but NPD'ers are master manipulators, gaslighters, and fact distorters!

Over the past 2 years, I tried to distance myself from her, but I hadn't realized her full mental illness, and I still had hope that we could have a relationship. If I could go back, I would have distanced myself completely from her and made it clear that I don't want to be around her unless I had to. No verbal fight would have ever taken place. I tried to have a discussion with her about something that was bothering me and it turned into a huge dramatic fight- you know why? Because PD's do not have empathy and cannot communicate like non-PD's.

Hope this helps in some way.

NewFreedom - I related to a lot of what you wrote here, thanks so much for sharing this.

I especially related when you wrote about trying to have a discussion with your sister about something that was bothering you, and the result was an explosive fight. This is how my sister is, exactly.

If I try to let her know that something she said or did (some mistreatment) hurt my feelings, or angered me (basically if I ever call her out on her toxic behavior), I better be prepared to throw down. It's going to be WWIII. Clash of the Titans.

In my original post, I shared that she lied this past week about when she started back at work after her wedding/honeymoon. She lied by omission in order to keep me in the dark about a whole week she had off from work after the honeymoon - I suspect because she didn't want to feel obligated to spend time with me. I asked her about it over text message - she gave a couple of evasive, untruthful replies, and I thought about pressing the issue, but ultimately decided not to. It just wasn't worth it. I would have been sucked into an all day argument over text message (she doesn't like talking on the phone), and she would have been slinging mud at me the whole time.

She lies to me about something pointless and stupid, and ensures that she will never be held accountable, by automatically going into Mud Slinging Mode and making sure I am exhausted and emotionally drained if I actually dare to confront her. Been there, done that. She's done some really really selfish, sh*tty things, and whenever I actually tried to talk her about it, I could pretty much guarantee a huge fight, during which time she will push my buttons and throw in my face my most personal issues or weak spots. She will project her own issues onto me. She will cut me down and make me feel so small and diminished and alone.

So yeah, I guess I've been conditioned by her to not call her out on her bad behavior. And I didn't even really realize it until just now, typing this post. Wow.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 11:37:01 PM by IAmReady »

*

Foreignwoman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 814
IAR

It's strange how they operate. From what you tel me I have to think about another trait of narcs or BPDs.
Can it be true that she is afraid and jealous.

Let me explain, jealous in the sense of scared that her husband would like you more than her because obviously you are the nicest sister of the two. And she knows that.

Afraid that if that might happen, she will loose not only her husband, but you also. To be abandoned is one of the things narcs are most scared of. They will do almost anything to avoid that, even if that means triangulate the two of you against each other.

It reminds me of an incident with my older sister I once had when we were younger.
I was 14 and in love with a guy one street away. All of a sudden she was too and made him believe that and made him choose one of us. I stepped down cause obviously I thought he would pick her.
But he choose me I was very amazed, because I never would think he would see through her.

Not long after that she threatened to kill herself by walking to the locks. So I send my new BF, Yes the same guy, after her because I was very scared for her. So she had her way again.

Take care

FW
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 04:47:45 AM by Foreignwoman »
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

*

Candywarhol

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 88
It reminds me of an incident with my older sister I once had when we were younger.
I was 14 and in love with a guy one street away. All of a sudden she was too


That just brought back to me the fact that I was nuts about a guy when I was 14 and not allowed to go to discos. My
sister was and got an introduction to the guy at a disco one night. She then introduced me to him and three weeks later was going
out with him!! You don't do that, do you?

They only lasted two weeks together. He and I remained friends and when I was 18 we were a couple for 4 years.
We`re still friends now. He says he's always found older sis selfish and manipulative.

*

IAmReady

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 539
Quote
IAR

It's strange how they operate. From what you tel me I have to think about another trait of narcs or BPDs.
Can it be true that she is afraid and jealous.

Let me explain, jealous in the sense of scared that her husband would like you more than her because obviously you are the nicest sister of the two. And she knows that.

Afraid that if that might happen, she will loose not only her husband, but you also. To be abandoned is one of the things narcs are most scared of. They will do almost anything to avoid that, even if that means triangulate the two of you against each other.

My sister is the beauty of the family, is four years younger than me, and her husband is four years younger than her. I would consider myself an attractive woman but my sister is gorgeous, with a luminous, natural sort of beauty. Not the Kardashian/fake boobs/piles of makeup/hair extensions sort of beauty - the real thing. I definitely do not think she would ever be threatened by me in the looks department, and I don't believe she would ever in a million years see me as a threat with her husband.

However, I will say that, when we were growing up, she was extremely threatened by me with friendships - anyone she was close to (including her favorite cousin), I was forbidden from spending any time with them. She would literally fly into tantrums if I came around and wanted to hang out. I always wondered if it was because she was worried I would steal these people away from her (I was never that sort of person).

Now, as an adult, it seems she has reverted to that same territorial mentality in regards to her husband. He is off limits to me - I am not allowed to have my own friendship with him.

I'm wondering, for the first time, if that territorial mentality is because she is projecting her own mindset onto me. She assumes that I would behave like her, and that she has to take pains to keep me away from people she values, so that I won't turn them against her, or expose her in some way. She possibly assigns malicious intent to me, that isn't there, but she is simply projecting her own behaviors onto me. She sees jealousy and intrigue and spitefulness in me, because that is what her own mind is full of.

In truth, I would like to know her husband because he is my brother in law, and I would like to have a good relationship with him, and to get along. My intentions are pure and innocent, but I don't think she sees me that way. To her, I am undoubtedly a threat in some way. Her behavior makes it very plain.

There were a couple of Christmas and Thanksgivings when her husband's large family was having festive celebrations. Our family lives far away - my sister is my only family member who lives in my city. I had gone through a breakup with my fiance of six years, and had no one to spend the holidays with, other than my sweet dog who was battling leukemia. Everyone I knew was wrapped up in their own family celebrations, or travelling.

I spent Thanksgiving alone (even though my sister's in laws were literally down the street having a big dinner), and at Christmas she told me that I could come to their vacation home if I wanted, but that I couldn't bring my dog - she blamed her mother in law for this, even though her mother and father in law would have their own very friendly dog there. Obviously I couldn't find a pet sitter on such short notice, and I would never have sent my dog to a kennel - he was very weak and wobbly from chemo and having trouble walking. I wasn't going to abandon him during that time. My sister knew this. She set up the invitation perfectly so that it gave the appearance of her including me, but the terms were such that I couldn't accept it.

Later on, I would get to know her in laws better, and it became clear that their vibe is very warm and inclusive, that if my sister had ever given the word, they would have been glad to include me in a holiday gathering. But she would not do that.

*

Candywarhol

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 88
I'm wondering, for the first time, if that territorial mentality is because she is projecting her own mindset onto me. She assumes that I would behave like her, and that she has to take pains to keep me away from people she values, so that I won't turn them against her, or expose her in some way. She possibly assigns malicious intent to me, that isn't there, but she is simply projecting her own behaviors onto me. She sees jealousy and intrigue and spitefulness in me, because that is what her own mind is full of.

I'd say you've nailed it there.
Might there also be the possibility that she feels threatened by you because you are yourself and people gravitate towards you for your character? I've recently realised that that is often the case. The vivacious beauty's machinations are seen through more easily than we think and people feel attracted to the genuine and pleasant one.
Just a thought .

*

Muggins

  • Guest
Something else to consider, as if things aren't complicated enough, people do sometimes alter when they reach middle age.

*

NewFreedom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 43

NewFreedom - I related to a lot of what you wrote here, thanks so much for sharing this.

I especially related when you wrote about trying to have a discussion with your sister about something that was bothering you, and the result was an explosive fight. This is how my sister is, exactly.

If I try to let her know that something she said or did (some mistreatment) hurt my feelings, or angered me (basically if I ever call her out on her toxic behavior), I better be prepared to throw down. It's going to be WWIII. Clash of the Titans.

In my original post, I shared that she lied this past week about when she started back at work after her wedding/honeymoon. She lied by omission in order to keep me in the dark about a whole week she had off from work after the honeymoon - I suspect because she didn't want to feel obligated to spend time with me. I asked her about it over text message - she gave a couple of evasive, untruthful replies, and I thought about pressing the issue, but ultimately decided not to. It just wasn't worth it. I would have been sucked into an all day argument over text message (she doesn't like talking on the phone), and she would have been slinging mud at me the whole time.

She lies to me about something pointless and stupid, and ensures that she will never be held accountable, by automatically going into Mud Slinging Mode and making sure I am exhausted and emotionally drained if I actually dare to confront her. Been there, done that. She's done some really really selfish, sh*tty things, and whenever I actually tried to talk her about it, I could pretty much guarantee a huge fight, during which time she will push my buttons and throw in my face my most personal issues or weak spots. She will project her own issues onto me. She will cut me down and make me feel so small and diminished and alone.

So yeah, I guess I've been conditioned by her to not call her out on her bad behavior. And I didn't even really realize it until just now, typing this post. Wow.

IAmReady- that sounds a lot like my sister... She doesn't blatantly lie about things, but your description of reactions is spot on! It's so tough to deal with. Up until about 2 years ago, I always thought that I was what she said I was- "overly sensitive". I really relate to when you said your sister throws in personal issues and weak spots into any discussion. Mine does the same thing, but often times my "weak spots" are her own projections! It's beyond messed up!

I've learned that the discussions aren't worthwhile (as we both know, they aren't really discussions). It's either you have an incredibly superficial and distant relationship with her, or you go NC. I didn't intend to go NC, but it just kind of happened after she hung up on me saying that I was "emotionally abusing her". LOL!!

Whatever you choose, it's going to be hard. The worst of it is that it's your sister, and you love her. It's not easy to just say "to hell with her". I totally understand. Just work on centering yourself and becoming confident in your convictions that you won't be lied to and mistreated. You have already shown a lot of strength.