Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues

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mimzy

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Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« on: June 14, 2016, 02:09:45 PM »
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if I could get some advice about something that has been a bit of a “thorn in my side”. It’s regarding my husband and his financial situation with his business. Before I get to that, let me preface this by saying that, although I don’t think my husband has a personality disorder, I am concerned that if I don’t get this out, I (who grew up with a mother with UBPD and am in therapy for co-dependency with her) I will be inclined to deal with this directly with my husband who has a bit of a temper and can a bully. I’d like to avoid that by talking about this in a safe space. I’m not sure if this is the correct place in the forum to post and, if that’s the case, could someone please direct me to the right forum? I would really appreciate it.

Having said all that, my husband is a hard-working and conscientious person in all respects – colleague, husband, father, son, etc. Sometimes, however, he is SO conscientious that I have personally found it encourages him to put up a mental block from getting constructive feedback, i.e.: when he was in grad school, one of the professors called him out on being arrogant (which I can attest to is a huge character defect of his) and my husband found it difficult to own the feedback, i.e. since he is such a hard worker, team player, does excellent work, etc., the person giving the feedback must have the problem and be mistaken.  :stars:

The issue I specifically need advice about is regarding his situation with his business. My husband (not me) owns a non-profit theatre company (an LLC) where he has directed 3 plays since its inception 4 years ago. Because his theatre company is run by him and 1 other partner (who he nearly fired because her head hasn’t been in the game for the past 2.5 years due to her being in a long-distance romantic relationship which is another story altogether) my husband essentially wears many different hats in addition to being the director of the shows. He designs programs, flyers, finds people willing to do PR at a decent rate, and, most importantly, raises money (producer hat) for these productions.  All of the plays have garnered good, solid reviews and, as a result, breaking even (even having a small bit leftover for the next production) has become common for him. His last production, however, didn’t sell well (despite receiving a positive review from a reputable critic). Consequently, my husband’s (let’s just call him Jim) – Jim’s theatre company is now in the red by $4000. That might not seem like a lot to some but it’s got him a bit frazzled. He is a teacher and gets paid a (decent) hourly wage but doesn’t receive any benefits (No vacation, no 401(k), no holidays off.) I work for a financial company and bring in nearly twice what he brings it – not bragging – just stating a fact. (I wish Jim could make more because we live in a high cost area and live paycheck to paycheck... but I chose to marry someone in the arts so, anyways, that’s another kettle of fish.) He is now talking about how to pay off the debt. I suggested he transfer the balance to a zero interest credit and come up with a plan on how to pay it off before the interest goes up. (It’s zero interest for a little over 12 months and then they will bring the chopping block down in terms of interest rate –you all know how it works.) He transferred the fee to no interest credit card and then asked if I would be willing to help him raise money for a fundraiser to help pay off the debt. I told him I would consider it but everything inside of me is telling me not to do it. I’m already incredibly resentful that he didn’t heed my feedback throughout his campaign to raise money for the third show – the one that put him in the red. While he was lamenting about the many empty seats throughout the run, I would suggest to him how important it is to follow up on the invitations he had sent out to folks. He would then get hostile and tell me that that would be bothering them – never mind that I’m somewhat familiar with marketing strategies from running my own successful creative campaigns and having experienced FIRST HAND HOW CRUCIAL it is to follow up with people since they are so inundated with information now a days they simply forget about your cause. In addition, he would turn his nose up when I would suggest people and places to go to and ask for money. (Like I mentioned, I have had two successful campaigns for personal creative projects where I have asked many people for donations, including hair stylists, dentists, etc. My feeling is: YOU NEVER KNOW. And every little bit counts. Nope. He turned his nose up at the idea since “they would probably only give $50” and “a $50 donation won’t go far.  :sadno:)

I even suggested an idea on how he could pay off the debt back in April -  albeit the idea was a little unorthodox, but fun: playing a successful album at an open air restaurant and inviting fans of the album to listen to the album under the stars. I was jazzed by it and would have gladly helped him out with it.  Nope! He poo-pooed it. Said why would people come to see that? And how would we deal with the fact that we were using famous musicians work to make money (I'm sure there would be a solution for that but we didn't get that far because he (politely) declined. So, you’ll pardon me for not feeling led to get on board with whatever conventional, “safe” idea he has for paying off this debt and subjecting myself to his limited POV. I am nearly convinced that getting involved would lead to more hurt feelings (me getting hurt) and, also, I would be enabling what I believe is HIS opportunity to learn from this.

I guess what I’m asking is – am I wrong – given the circumstances? I feel guilty…. that I should “stand by my man” and roll up my sleeves and get to work. But… no… that doesn’t sit right with me. I think he’s more than capable of finding his way. If I can raise 4k for a creative endeavor, he can. Again, I’m not bragging. I’m simply stating the facts and scratching my head at how he can scoff at my ideas when I’ve successfully raised money.

When someone has a chance, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Am I being selfish or avoiding a cocktail of co-dependency?

« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 02:23:32 PM by mimzy »

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Coyote23

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 01:00:42 PM »
Hey there.
I love the album under the stars idea! I hope you keep that for one of your projects.

So, I hesitate to say this, but are you sure H does not have a PD, or perhaps PD traits but not enough to comprise a PD diagnosis? I ask because you have said 1. He has a temper and can be a bully 2. Was unable to hear critical feedback on a character trait and has been unable to reflect on that feedback even years later. 3. You seem to be walking on eggshells to try to avoid said temper and bullying.

If he's not, a lot of the same advice would apply. Not all bullies have PDs, but almost all PDs are bullies in some way.

Someone here suggested the Broken Record Technique to me to use with my N/BPDm. You just repeat the same thing over and over. In your case, maybe "I don't know what to tell you. You weren't happy with my ideas" if he tries to enlist you as a problem solver.

Are you doing enough of your own creative stuff to make yourself happy? It sounds like you are a very supportive spouse to H, but I wondered if you are getting your own outlets for creative expression. You mentioned your own projects.

Maybe your H just needs you to listen and make neutral, empathetic statements about how heartbreaking it is to see a production lose money after all of his hard work. Despite gendered statements everyone seems to make about Mars and Venus-men can also hate solution-offering and just want to be listened to.

Something I'm not clear on is if this theater in the red thing affects your finances personally, and to what degree. That seems to be important in determining your involvement.

Since you are working on codependency in therapy, perhaps you have assigned yourself as the solver of this problem. Maybe you can give him the gift of dealing with it himself, and yourself the gift of letting go of the need to do anything besides be there for him.

Be well, and hugs. Congratulations for doing all the work you're doing on UBPDM. It ain't easy! But it's rewarding as heck.

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Malini

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2016, 01:15:21 PM »
This reminds me of discussions I have with my adult kids. My first instinct is to fly in and save the day. I usually don't act on that (anymore), and would make suggestions or offer advice. Often this got pooh-poohed, and a circular discussion ensued which was frustrating for me and for them. I have now opted for the 'what do you think you could do' followed by 'I'm sure you'll find a solution'

In your case, I understand the feeling of wanting to stand by your husband as I feel strongly that my DH and I are a team who have each other's backs (mostly). However, I get the sense that you worry that if you say yes to helping him, you will end up doing more than you signed up for?

I would take a step back, telling him that you are happy to give a hand when he comes up with some specifics from which you can choose to help with or not depending on your own time constraints.
He should definitely be shouldering the bulk of the fundraising, but I don't think there's any harm in you lending a 'helping hand'.
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Spring Butterfly

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 09:25:35 AM »
Boy can I relate! As a recovering codependent I'm relearning how to support without solving and rescuing. One thing I do with my nonPD DH is not to suggest anything, no solutions, it's squarely on his back to come up with ideas. I am there to support and work under his direction. Boy I think sometimes I really have to bite my tongue as I'm sure I have a better idea. Other times he 'subcontracts' a task out to me and I manage it how I see fit. We have a small family business and I view it just that way, as a family business, but he's the owner and manager, I'm just a worker, don't need to agree or disagree, just do my grunt work and listen to my tunes while I work!
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mimzy

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2016, 01:10:18 PM »
Hey there.
I love the album under the stars idea! I hope you keep that for one of your projects.


So, I hesitate to say this, but are you sure H does not have a PD, or perhaps PD traits but not enough to comprise a PD diagnosis? I ask because you have said 1. He has a temper and can be a bully 2. Was unable to hear critical feedback on a character trait and has been unable to reflect on that feedback even years later. 3. You seem to be walking on eggshells to try to avoid said temper and bullying.

If he's not, a lot of the same advice would apply. Not all bullies have PDs, but almost all PDs are bullies in some way.

Someone here suggested the Broken Record Technique to me to use with my N/BPDm. You just repeat the same thing over and over. In your case, maybe "I don't know what to tell you. You weren't happy with my ideas" if he tries to enlist you as a problem solver.

Are you doing enough of your own creative stuff to make yourself happy? It sounds like you are a very supportive spouse to H, but I wondered if you are getting your own outlets for creative expression. You mentioned your own projects.

Maybe your H just needs you to listen and make neutral, empathetic statements about how heartbreaking it is to see a production lose money after all of his hard work. Despite gendered statements everyone seems to make about Mars and Venus-men can also hate solution-offering and just want to be listened to.

Something I'm not clear on is if this theater in the red thing affects your finances personally, and to what degree. That seems to be important in determining your involvement.

Since you are working on codependency in therapy, perhaps you have assigned yourself as the solver of this problem. Maybe you can give him the gift of dealing with it himself, and yourself the gift of letting go of the need to do anything besides be there for him.

Be well, and hugs. Congratulations for doing all the work you're doing on UBPDM. It ain't easy! But it's rewarding as heck.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to all that I wrote. I'm unsure as to whether or not has a PD. I've discussed it with my therapist and it's on our agenda to revisit. Thanks as well for the compliment about my idea. Yeah, the business is in his name and it's an LLC so if he is subjected to a lawsuit, he can't be sued - the business can. So, in that respect, it's less of a risk. He can probably be held liable for not making the payments on the debt though and I'm unsure whether or not how much that can effect. Trying not to think about it. Things are so tight for us financially. I just got paid (paycheck and a bonus) and the money is GONE. He only gets paid once in June. I'm sick of the nail-biting. My therapist and I are going to explore what exactly drew me to someone with so much financial insecurity. When I first met him he was in credit card debt (paid it off before we got married), then got an MFA and we now owe over 100 grand in student loans. Thank God his mother is helping us with the monthly payments or else we wouldn't be able to make them. Thanks again for your support.

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mimzy

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2016, 01:11:37 PM »
Boy can I relate! As a recovering codependent I'm relearning how to support without solving and rescuing. One thing I do with my nonPD DH is not to suggest anything, no solutions, it's squarely on his back to come up with ideas. I am there to support and work under his direction. Boy I think sometimes I really have to bite my tongue as I'm sure I have a better idea. Other times he 'subcontracts' a task out to me and I manage it how I see fit. We have a small family business and I view it just that way, as a family business, but he's the owner and manager, I'm just a worker, don't need to agree or disagree, just do my grunt work and listen to my tunes while I work!

Thank you for taking the time to read all I wrote and write a response. Yes, I agree with that you wrote. I have to refrain from rescuing.

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mimzy

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2016, 01:13:57 PM »
This reminds me of discussions I have with my adult kids. My first instinct is to fly in and save the day. I usually don't act on that (anymore), and would make suggestions or offer advice. Often this got pooh-poohed, and a circular discussion ensued which was frustrating for me and for them. I have now opted for the 'what do you think you could do' followed by 'I'm sure you'll find a solution'

In your case, I understand the feeling of wanting to stand by your husband as I feel strongly that my DH and I are a team who have each other's backs (mostly). However, I get the sense that you worry that if you say yes to helping him, you will end up doing more than you signed up for?

I would take a step back, telling him that you are happy to give a hand when he comes up with some specifics from which you can choose to help with or not depending on your own time constraints.
He should definitely be shouldering the bulk of the fundraising, but I don't think there's any harm in you lending a 'helping hand'.

Hi - thanks for taking the time to read what I wrote and respond. Yes, I think it's best to take a step back and follow my gut. Quite frankly, I'm worn out from doing otherwise.

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bopper

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2016, 06:14:28 PM »
Look into Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder...it is a PD...but one that isn't as "strong".

OCPD is a type of “personality disorder” with these characteristics:
• Rigid adherence to rules and regulations
• An overwhelming need for order
• Unwillingness to yield or give responsibilities to others
• A sense of righteousness about the way things “should be done”


The symptoms of OCPD include:
perfectionism to the point that it impairs the ability to finish tasks.
stiff, formal, or rigid mannerisms.
being extremely frugal with money.
an overwhelming need to be punctual.
extreme attention to detail.
excessive devotion to work at the expense of family or social relationships.


Another symptom is Demand Resistance...if you suggest it, he therefore doesn't want to do it.
And

http://ocpd.freeforums.org/ocpd-main-board-f2.html




Just because they are incapable of loving you, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.
Anything makes the false self appear real is supply.

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movingforward2

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Re: Detaching with love from my husband's financial issues
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2016, 07:14:04 PM »
I think that you have gotten great advice and I think it's wise for you to visit this with your therapist as well.

My H has fleas from being raised by a pd mother and certainly exhibits some bad traits from time to time as a result.  Like you, I'm the primary bread winner in my family and my H earns a lot less than I do (I earn probably 5 times what he does as he only works part time).  Last year, for the first time, I took a step back and started allowing my H to make more decisions and own those decisions.  He wanted to buy a purebread dog to breed.  So...he had to charge the cost on his credit card and then pay it off.  He wanted to start a pet sitting business...I refused to pay any of the start up costs and again, he charged it on his credit card.  Well...the business and breeding didn't work out (the dog he got has tons of skin issues and we decided not to breed her).  The business just never took off. 

So...he was over a grand in debt on his credit card with no job to pay it off.  What happened?  He got a part time job where he could make his own hours and paid off his credit card and then some.  Decided he liked working and helping to pay for things (including treats for himself).  It was really hard for me to keep my mouth shut and watch him fail, but in the end, it paid off. 

I'd just let your H deal with it.  Could he get a part time job to help pay that off?  If you guys are strapped, is it because you are spending too much or simply because the cost of living is so expensive where you live?  Are you living above your means?   My H and I try to pay cash for everything and if we don't have the cash, we don't buy it.  It's a hard way to live, but we are way less stressed living this way.