To me, no contact is shunning and mean

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Unvitation to Drama

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2016, 06:58:11 PM »
No Contact was very difficult for me to wrap my head around for a long time because both my family and DH's family use the Silent Treatment as a form of punishment.  A therapist I saw a few years ago asked me if I would allow a friend or acquaintance treat me (for the long term, with no apology or attempt at resolution) the way that my own father and my uBPD and N in-laws were treating me.  She told me to go home and think about it, and write a summary.  Boy was that an eye opener!  I was a little embarrassed at how badly I'd allowed myself to be treated by family, especially when it became painfully obvious that I would be highly unlikely to tolerate similar behaviors from friends, co-workers, et cetera.  I also realized how much the Silent Treatment had hurt me over the years.

With the case of my father, as well as my in-laws, the Silent Treatment was initiated as for form of punishment to both DH and I.
I'm still unsure of my father's rationale, other than that my husband and children are my number one priority. (This began in 2013)
With uBPD MIL, she tried to extort money from us two years ago and was unsuccessful.  This resulted in a tantrum in which she "disowned DH, DS and DD" and was followed by a message to the entire family smearing DH by saying that he was causing her and NFIL to get divorced....obviously I haven't existed for years.

DH and I took this as an opportunity to go NC.  Please understand that this decision was made after a lifetime of emotional abuse on DH's part, and emotional and physical abuse on my part. TBH, neither my father or in-laws have made any real concerted effort to contact us for close to three years.  There have been a couple of feigned emails or text messages, but no REAL effort to take accountability for their hurtful actions and/or apologize.  There has been no inquiry about our children whom they all have claimed to have as a number one priority.

We have engaged in no splitting, painting black or smear campaigning.  We have attempted to maintain a relationship with my siblings and DH's siblings.

We have no malice.

My siblings understand the pathology and we have a relationship with them independent of my father.  DH's siblings have shunned us and not spoken to us since we were "disowned".

I will say that the PD's ability to completely disconnect from their adult children and grandchildren has almost proven their gross pathology to me more than the bad behavior.  I can't imagine NEVER seeing my child again.

uBPD MIL has begun trying to contact DH after nearly three years of complete silence.  She has telephoned his office and left a message as if nothing every happened....

I'll be honest, when we were dealing with these behaviors all the time, it was often hard to see the pathology.  After three years of the Silent Treatment, the "Let's Pretend Like Nothing Ever Happened Telephone Call" appears glaringly disordered....

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arianna

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 09:51:25 PM »
all4peace: Yes it was a last resort. As a teen I thought, maybe I can talk to them and figure out where I'm in the wrong and also teach them to understand me.  I took my dad to my school counselor. I talked to family members. I told people personal things about myself that were a little embarrassing to me but I did it so that everyone could maybe heal or something.   I tried explaining things to them in a hundred different ways.. I read book after book on mental disorders trying to find out what was wrong with me.  40 years of that is plenty.

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mdana

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2016, 10:07:09 PM »
Yeah... no contact is difficult ...but, I think ...necessary in some cases! 
Some people are just too toxic to be around ...

M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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JG65

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 04:38:09 PM »
I struggle with the components of NC that could be viewed as shunning and mean. 

I have been NC with my NPD father (diagnosed) for 6 months and have been thinking it's like this:

My father is in quicksand.  Every time I try to pull him out, instead of trying to come out of the quicksand, he attempted to pull me in.  NC is the only way I can avoid having him trying to pull me into the quicksand with him. 
Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences - Robert Louis Stevenson

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arianna

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2016, 08:44:41 AM »
I may have said this before I don't remember. But I don't think it's mean.  Parents don't need their children; not emotionally. A mature adult doesn't need attention from their child.  They may act like they do; but the truth is, even if I did give my parents the attention they seem to want, it doesn't make them feel better.  If they are upset, what they really want/need is something else that has nothing to do with me.

If I knew that I could make them feel better I wouldn't go nc and in fact I've spent decades trying to make them feel better. I think all the effort was more about them.  I went to therapy so much that I don't even know if I needed them anymore; I just tried to make them feel ok.  Maybe make them feel like better parents. I would say, hey look at me, I'm a great person so you weren't such bad parents after all. And their response was, no you're a terrible person and you're a reminder of our failures. The things they feel guilty about aren't even the things they did wrong. They regret not forcing more religion on me and don't regret the neglect and abuse.

I'm willing to make some sacrifices for another person but for my parents it doesn't actually work.  There's no joy in it for me.  I can't say, well I went through pain but at least I helped a couple of old people.

So my opinion is that it isn't mean. If my kids walked away from me I would wonder why and I would be concerned about them, but I wouldn't be upset in the sense of being rejected by a person I need in my life.

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all4peace

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2016, 11:25:29 AM »
So my opinion is that it isn't mean. If my kids walked away from me I would wonder why and I would be concerned about them, but I wouldn't be upset in the sense of being rejected by a person I need in my life.
Really? I would be devastated! I don't "need" my kids to meet my emotional needs, but I am bonded to them, love them more than anyone in life, and it would be incredibly hurtful to me if they didn't want me in their live.

I hope, of course, that I'm a healthy person they want in their lives when they're adults.

I feel for you, and am in no way criticizing your choice for no contact, but I don't agree that parents need nothing from their children. It's a relationship. All relationships need something.

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paco

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2016, 02:46:02 AM »
It is certainly not a decision that most come easily to. Despite the guilt, which has diminished, I take solace in protecting myself and my family; in reminding myself that the normal rules don't apply to people with pds; and that the further I am away from it all, the more I know its right.
 

And it's hard for me to do it. Actually, my entire family seems damaged and personality disordered and I kind of fell through the cracks because I was the scapegoat for all of their problems and therefore not really a part of them. It saved me!!

I have my own awesome family of choice now, but I can't help but think that no contact is a form of mean shunning, at least to those who have to endure the no contact. My family did it to me and it didn't feel good. And now I decided never to let them back in again because they, especially my bpd sister, is always coming back only to leave again in an angry, mean tirade.

But I do feel guilty. If she comes back, I have to tell her no. And to me that's hurting her. And even though only my mother has hurt me more than her, I still don't want to do it to her. Does this make sense?

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Elsbeth

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2016, 09:55:25 AM »

Your responsibility, as an adult human being with your own spouse and children, is to take care of your own mental health and that of your own family of choice. As an adult, your job is to live your own life, not to cater to your parents as if you were still a child. If your mother chooses to feel hurt by what you do, that is her decision. It is not your job to twist yourself into knots in order to avoid her feeling whatever she is going to feel. Sometimes, in the course of living our lives as mature adults, we have to say "no" to people. Sometimes they don't like that. It doesn't mean, because they don't like it, we can't say "no".

To the extent that we believe we have to always do what others want in order not to hurt them, to that extent we are imprisoned, not free to live our own lives. Worrying about not making other people feel bad makes it very easy for them to manipulate us. We can be emotionally blackmailed very easily.

 :yeahthat:

Such healing and poignant words.

No contact isn't about hurting the other people. I believe the other people are hurt because the dynamic they are used to has been disrupted and it causes them discomfort. And I think we view no contact with "family" FOO as somehow different from no contact or lost contact with friends, co-workers when in reality, I think it should not be viewed differently. As adults, we choose how to spend and share our lives. FOO is not a binding contract contrary to social norms.

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mariacristy

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2016, 10:02:06 AM »
Hi. I just got on board, triggered by very recent blow up with a sibling that has left me still reeling and crying and shaken to the core. I am taking small steps because I am just starting to deal with so many sad realities here, (although this has been happening for most of my adult life) having come across this site and read so many similar stories. Hope to come out of my shell in the coming days.

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movingforward2

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2016, 03:20:32 PM »
Great thread.

I used to feel this same way when my H wanted to go NC with his mom for awhile.  Like all4peace said, it feels even worse when we go NC without really saying why we are doing it, but with some pd's that is what you have to do.

For my family, we went NC with NMIL after she gave us silent treatment for over a month and then just showed up at our house, unannounced to take our DD (6 at the time) out for brunch on what NMIL perceived as her visitation schedule with my DD.  She didn't want to take my other DD (who was 1).  When my H asked NMIL to talk about things first, she flipped out and walked out on us.  We didn't need that drama in our lives or that damage done to my DD's, so H decided to go NC.  I felt awful about it at first, but as time went on and my family healed, I realized it was the right thing for my family.

As another poster said, there is a difference between silent treatment (punishing someone because you are mad at them) and going NC with a person who is harmful to you.

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Viola Violet

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2016, 06:39:45 AM »
So many of you with this dilemma.  This is a "wow" moment for me.  No contact with my sister (my one precious sibling) was/is the utmost, extremely last possible move I had left.  I had so many dreams of things we could do together.  We were never close but I tried, we tried. My parents are still trying. They can't let go even though my mother is reduced to tears 90% of the times my sister comes up in conversation.  My mum will ask me if she was a bad mother and I'm never sure how to answer.  I personally HAD to do something to allow myself time to heal.  I was/am severely depressed, I started thinking about the best suicide options.  I doubt I can do anything right and have become quite agoraphobic.  I don't like to blame or shame others but during long months of no contact my life sails along much smoother and my kids are happier in my company.   It's the best thing I've ever done for myself.
Hurt people, hurt people.

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Lillith65

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Re: To me, no contact is shunning and mean
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2016, 05:54:28 PM »
Shunning happens when some one makes a decision the family or community don't like and is a threat or punishment to control others. I don't want to control my FOO. I just want to not be hurt.
Most people I know finally choose no contact after years or decades of abuse. We just don't want to be hurt anymore and have tried everything else.
Is it mean to keep away from someone who hurts you? No. It is sensible.
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm - anonymous.

Part of my story: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54885.msg488293#msg488293
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54892.msg488385#msg488385

NC uPDM; NC uBPDSis