Judgemental acquaintance.

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Joan

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Judgemental acquaintance.
« on: September 09, 2016, 08:50:34 PM »
Hi guys!

I´d like some opinions if Im over-reacting and seeing PDs everywhere or am I just too easily triggered?

I have this acquaintance for 20 years. I see her maybe every 2 months, when I go to her business.

For some time now I have realized she is not as easy-going as she seemed to be. She is into spirituality, converting to multiple religions, sects, numerology, etc. She has had many relationships but not one lasted, according to her she used to be very controling and she claims to be changing and improving. She lives alone with her 12 cats and doesnt have much contact with her family (they live in a city nearby). She has no friends whatsoever (thats a red flag to me).

From time to time she shares with me stories about her family (her mom seems to be uBPD) and I try to share info with her, in the kindest way possible on how to deal, or how they usually behave, etc. Its a friendly talk, I ask her questions to see if they fit the "criteria" and told her abt MC, for example, so she can navigate better when she visits them.

The thing is, sometimes she turns on me, she seems to resent the things I say. Even if I agree with her, at some point she just comes defending her family and attacking me, telling me I shouldnt judge, Jesus told us not to judge, etc... Since she believes she is more spiritual than everybody, she keeps telling people "the truth".

This has been bothering me, cause sometimes she comes to me for advice and then begins to preach to me, telling me I judge. I met a friend the day I had met her and I was so upset that my friend noticed it... She believes my acquaintance feels judged herself so she´s projecting (I didnt think of it).

Id like some advice on how to deal with her in the few times we meet. She has the same behaviour on facebook and whatsapp, there are times she just has to lash out at me, in ironic ways. Im assuming she does the same with others... The fact that she has no friends at all makes me wonder too. Should I try MC with her? I guess when she begins complaining abt her family I will change the subject or just go MC. Same for the fb comments.

Its not a big deal, but I realize it upsets me a lot when it happens. And I notice its like a cycle, she has to be aggressive from time to time, it reminds me of a uHPD/ BPD friend I had....

Am I over-reacting? Is that PD behaviour? Thanks a lot!


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leapsand bounds

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 09:21:18 PM »
Hi Joan,
where are you up to with setting boundaries with this person?

My current strategy setting boundaries with behaviour that I'm not okay with is:

1. Awareness of feelings in the moment

2. Don't fawn in response.  Make eye contact with serious face, pause.

2.  If I need to say something further, and am able to, make it something low level and appropriate to the situation.

3. If I'm not able to respond better than just not fawning,  or worse, if I do fawn, reflect on what I want to do in the future if it happens again,or in more serious cases, if i need to make a retrospective response, ie "I didn't say anything at the time, but i'd rather...."

4. See if problem continues, use previously decided consequence if it does.

I expect you have already used some consequences and they haven't worked.  I didn't want to assume, because some people are like me, and finding their way with boundaries.  it sounds like this situation has already reach MC, change subject, don't engage etc.

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 09:34:59 PM »
Hi leapsand bounds! Thanks a lot for your words.

Actually I didnt establish any boundaries. I should had long ago. Im her client and I have considered finding somebody else years ago, cause her behaviour can be disrespectful (in my way of seeing things). But she is very good at that she does, so I keep on going.

Reasons why I didnt establish boundaries: all goes well, we are having a friendly chat and suddenly she "snaps" and tells me "you shouldnt judge" or you "shouldt" behave like that... I thought about telling her she is the judgemental one, since she is putting herself on a pedestal and "teaching people lessons" all the time. Im afraid I will get carried away and she will keep smiling and happy to make me jump. Now that I type it, I just occurs to me she is similar to my ex SO, a covert narc, in that aspect. She likes to tell people what they are (in her opinion) and when people get upset she just sits back and enjoys.

I guess I have to avoid some issues and if she brings them up trying to engage me I will just try MC...


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Arya

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 09:54:56 PM »
sounds like she's got fleas---and is struggling to accept / see thru family fog. She's probably very groomed to defend and pretend in her foo.

which is not to say it excuses behaving this way to you. Her reactions are basically = I want to complain about FOO, but I don't want to be be told anything I don't want to hear= I want to talk at you not with you.

Since coming OOTF I've had a lot of ah ha! about friends and family ...and amount of time spent together and what we do together. I realized, oh, gee, there are those that are great for a lunch pal, or drink from work and those that I'd actually go on a weeks vacation with. There's those that meeting from brunch and shopping is great...but I don't  want to go to their family and foo BQ's. I used to think categorizing people seemed mean, that a friend is a friend. Now, I'm more tuned to, it's best to steer clear of stuff that doesn't work out. I try to stick to what is enjoyable and healthy to do together, and in what contexts/amount of time. If someone consistently leaves me feeling ....fogged up, I drift away. But, there are plenty of people who I really do enjoy spending time with that are probably a bit flea'd up and fogged at times.

If you do enjoy spending time with this friend, I'd try to steer towards doing things together that avoid the pitfalls discussing her family. She is not ready to get out of that fog. If the complaints about foo come up---I'd be inclined to go a bit mum, grey rock on it. You've tried to be helpful, she hasn't been ready---you don't need to say anymore.

However, if most of your encounters are about her talking about Foo at you, unable to take in what you respond with....I'd be inclined to drift away. You have to ask yourself if the friendship has give and take and you really are enjoying one another's company / time together.


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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 10:42:13 PM »
Hi Arya, thank you for your response!

Actually she is not a friend, she is somebody I know for over 20 years because of her job, Im a customer. But while she does her job we chit-chat. She knows my uPD relatives and there were only a few times when she tried to make me forgive and forget. Mostly she was very understanding of my situation.

I guess you are very right, she is not ready to see the dysfunction on her FOO. She has a troubled sister with 2 kids, one doesnt even know who his father is. Also the sis used drugs, so I get a pic of the dysfunction. This sister has let her down recently, they lived together and she suddenly packed and left, leaving her to deal with the rent...

I recently noticed some envy going on, she sent me a whatsapp message telling me she was getting rid of the dog she had rescued (I was trying to help her find somebody to adopt him). She seemed to be having some crisis, didnt even type like her... She said he was destroying the house, its not even hers like mine is, etc... I own my house, the way she stated it seemed like resentment. Anyway, I calmed her down and the next morning she apologized and thanked me for helping. I remember once I was thinking abt opening a business and gave her some free samples to distribute to her clients. I found out she had stashed all.... And I always sent her clients and was her cliente myself for over 20 years!

Thank you for your advice. I guess I have to go MC and avoid responding to her family´s issues. It seems to backfire on me every time.

Maybe Im also getting triggered more easily since I got OOTF: like my ex SO (covert narc) she likes to read/ suty about people, psychology, self-help, etc. I wonder if it is to manipulate people, since neither of them have any friends!

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clara

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2016, 01:22:26 PM »
Joan--it really seems like you're in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.  Likely she does the same with everyone she comes into contact with which is why she has no friends.  You've gone out of your way to be friendly, to listen and try to help but it's only backfired on you.  She may not be PD but may need some serious therapy which she isn't getting, thus her constant dumping and projecting on others.  How much do you need her services?  Because maybe the best thing you can do is give her the name of a good therapist (which will anger her no end but really, she obviously needs help).  Maybe if you do it gently, as in "I found that it helps talking with a professional when it comes to my problems.  Here's the name of one..."  Then be done with her, if possible, because she will get way worse before she ever gets better. 

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2016, 02:41:45 PM »
Thank you for your words, Clara!

I definetly think she needs therapy. To me, having no friends is a huge red-flag. She once told me she doesnt need people, she tolerates clients.... Her isolation seems strange to me.

I believe she has her own "therapy" in unusual ways (imho they are quacks). She keeps sending me videos of her "quack choice of the moment". The latest one is a woman who connects every disease you have to an emotional problem (you have acne cause you keep silent, lets say). Or even body structure is related to the way you behave (you are fat cause you are emotionally lazy).

She has been sending me videos like that for years, supposedly "diagnosing" me or trying to "help" me. Another friend also did this (now Im NC) and it was very annoying... I believe the ex friend was a mix of narc and schizoaffective PD....

Anyway, I believe she does that to upset me. She knows Im Catholic and Im not converting to anything or joining some "new-era" cult.... Also, there´s no scientific evidence for such claims, but she is so drawn to "the choice of the semester" that I just tell her I dont believe in those things... Yet, she keeps pushing those on me with a smile, as if she has some joy at showing me why I am this or that.... She doesnt stick to any, she once said she turned vegetarian (lie, she kept eating fish and chicken) and kept preaching to me and after some time dropped that too. Maybe there are some schizo traits on her, Im just thinking as Im tipying this down....

The idea of advising her to go to a therapist sounds great. I wont go as far as to give her a name, but I will ask her if she ever thought of doing therapy. I really like her services and I would had changed years ago when she was having one of those "episodes" and getting very pushy on her beliefs....

Thanks a lot!!

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2016, 03:27:50 PM »
Sorry, I had meant Schizotypal PD.

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clara

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 12:15:56 PM »
Honestly, it sounds like she's "beyond help."  You hate to think that about anyone, but it can be true.  She wants "therapy" that explains everything to her rather than making her do the work and discovering.  Without any ability at insight, she will never get better and will constantly seek outside sources regarding her issues.  Obviously she knows she has them, she just doesn't know how to deal with them and so is learning the wrong way to deal with them rather than engaging in anything productive, which is why she's constantly coming up with something new.  When something doesn't work, she looks for another quick fix rather than examine why she keeps having to move from one fix to another. 

Also, she seems to fall into the "true believer" category.  Those are people (and most of us can think of someone we've known like that) who are always coming up with some new "belief" that they feel has changed their life and will change yours, as well.  I think they do it to show their superior "belief finding" abilities (for lack of a better term!).  I just find them insulting because they basically seem to be saying you don't have the ability to find your own beliefs, that they have to do it for you.  They may as well call you "stupid" to your face, because in a way that's what they're saying.  She could also fall into the category of being one of those people who think everyone is on the same page as they are.  They have a certain belief which, to them, is so reasonable and obviously true that you can't do anything but share it, as well.  I have a "new age" friend who's like that and she'll just yammer on and on sometimes about something I consider nonsense but she seems to think I must believe just as she does, because who wouldn't!  I'm too nice and polite to tell her I think what she's saying is bull, so that doesn't help...
 

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2016, 05:04:18 PM »
Thank you, Clara! Sometimes I just want to ask her for how long she will remain in that belief so I know when I have to change too... She takes courses, joins groups and keeps annoying me about it as if she has discovered America... And then, out of the blue, she is into something new cause she "learnt all they had to offer" (those were her words).

My ex friend (I suspect schizotypal/ NPD) kept sending me videos, articles and inviting me to presentations. It was overwheelming for me, it lasted years. At some point I told her once more I didnt believe in that at all and to me it was all fake (that particular guru said his soul had been kidnapped and replaced by an alien´s one). I told her it sounded to me he had mental problems. She just snorted as if I was too ignorant to realize the grandiosity of the whole thing....

I think you hit the nail in the head... They go to one fix to another... They dont do inner work, they want to hear certain things and if it gets unconfortable they just go shop somewhere else....

Im sorry you have a friend like that too.... You are very patient! I reached a point I cant listen to such speeches anymore. Their attitude is so disrespectful that lately I have no problem in saying its nonsense. I guess Im getting too blunt... Or maybe thats just a boundary normal people would use without a second thought!

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clara

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 11:48:13 AM »
I remember years ago I knew a woman in my group therapy, and while she wasn't NPD she certainly had narc tendencies.  After the group was dissolved (by an incompetent therapist) she went running from one "guru" to another, because she believed there was someone "out there" would could tell her the truth about herself she was seeking.  She regarded our former therapist as the most wonderful person on earth (he wasn't) and was forever seeking his replacement.  I stayed friends with her for awhile because I liked her, but her constant talk about her spiritual and other various quests got too tiring.  Also, she did as narcs do and wanted total control over the relationship.  We could only discuss her life and her "journey" and so on, with zero interest in me.  I went NC with her but ran into her in a store a few years later.  She immediately began in on herself and what she was "into" and she finally said we should get together sometime.  I said, why?  In the past, whenever I suggested we do anything you weren't available, you only wanted to get together with me when it suited you.  Basically, I shut her down.  She got angry and stormed off, but I didn't care.  It felt good to finally call her on her behavior--something I almost never do!

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 03:39:52 PM »
Im glad you made your point and stood for yourself! Its hard most of the times for us, but really necessary.

I believe that once we get OOTF we see our friendships under a different light. I had a friend who invited me to her bdays and phoned me when she wanted me to join her somewhere, but was never available when I invited her.... Also, she never showed up at my bdays. I stopped inviting her and didnt accept her invitations anymore. She has phoned me once or twice cause she "misses" me. I believe she misses the audience, care and attention I provided her. I didnt even go to her wedding... She had being dating the guy for maybe 3 years and I had never met him, so I felt it was quite odd....

Regarding the acquaintance, I just realized she posted some fruit she picked and I had posted the same thing a few hours ago... A coincidence, maybe. It can be Im just reading too much in it. But since she seemed jealous I own my house and I care for my
garden, this kind of thing just makes me wonder....

I mentioned she has 12 cats and a dog.... I noticed years ago that she claims to love animals. I do too, but I believe animals are great to make you appear "nice" on facebook. Also, animals dont answer back and are pretty much accomodating.... IMHO its easy to deal with animals and its tough to deal with human beings! I adopted my 2 dogs from the city shelter and I keep in touch with volunteers there... What I experienced is a lot of uBPD/ NPD people who use animals to look nice. Honestly, I have never seen so many egomaniacs as in the "protecting animals business"... Maybe they just lose to politicians!


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leapsand bounds

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 05:23:02 PM »
One of the oddest things about this change in my life is that I have less people in my life than ever before, and yet I feel less lonely overall.  I realise that unhealthy relationships were familiar and time-consuming, but they had the effect of  making me feel more alone in the world.  I could be absorbed by them, obsessed with them at times, yet they'd leave me empty, a bit like a starving person eating sugar-free sweets, finishing one and compulsively reaching for another.  No nutrition.

A couple of people from the past have reached out to me this past week, not bad people, but needy self-absorbed people with whom a pattern of one-sidedness and inequality has already been established.  I wasn't even tempted to fill my solitude with their company, and not because I don't like or care about them.  Getting myself cast in a support role in someone else's drama is not a relationship, even when it continues across decades. 

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randompanda

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 05:44:51 PM »
leapsand bounds:  "One of the oddest things about this change in my life is that I have less people in my life than ever before, and yet I feel less lonely overall.  I realise that unhealthy relationships were familiar and time-consuming, but they had the effect of  making me feel more alone in the world.  I could be absorbed by them, obsessed with them at times, yet they'd leave me empty, a bit like a starving person eating sugar-free sweets, finishing one and compulsively reaching for another.  No nutrition."

I completely agree!  It really is amazing how the lens through which you view your friends changes when you start coming OOTF.  I've managed to cut off the major offender PD friends in my life, but then I noticed that some of my other friends weren't exactly PDs, they were just takers.  Totally self-absorbed.  They never offered anything positive to our friendship.  I would sit on the phone with them for hours, or read their pages-long emails and texts, where they just droned on and on about their existential crisis of the week, and never asked me anything about my life.  So I cut them out, too.  I'm down to about 1/4 of the friends I previously had, and I've never felt so happy and un-lonely.  My good friends, my true friends, are such amazing people, now I have more time for them.  After the cut, it's wonderful to know I can trust and rely on 100% of my friends.   ;D

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SpringLight

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2016, 11:37:20 PM »
Joan:

I can understand why you feel the way you do. My opinion? I don't think you are "overreacting." :sadno: That cyclical need to be aggressive, every so often, a need to lash out ..very concerning for me....and reminiscent of a few BPD people I've known.

Having no friends would be a red flag for me, but... do you think it is literally true?

This may seem like a silly question, but how did you learn she has no friends? Has she told you this as a statement? If so, I'm curious to know how did she explain that? In a self-pitying, manipulative, I need you as a friend way? In a "I'm so tough and spiritual I don't need friends" way?  It's not an admission most people would make.  Is she saying being controlling cost her all her friendships? And she's okay with that...for now or forever?  I think I'd be interested in learning more about that "controlling problem" she had, if I were in your shoes.

It sounds to me that she is very new, and/or very unsure of her new faith. I'm no scholar of religion, but I know enough to know new converts of any religion often tend to oversimplify their faith. And/or pick and choose a few "good rules to live by."

Jesus said "Judge not..." BUT...I really don't think Jesus ever advocated NOT using our intellect, our wisdom, when interacting with people.

If my memory serves...I  think there are plenty of places in the New Testament where Jesus preached the need to be DISCERNING.


Here's a passage you may want to bring to her attention:

Jesus (ALSO) said to his disciples  “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves” (Matthew 10:16, KJV)

Again, I am NO  religious scholar, but wouldn't you take that to mean...followers of Jesus should have their eyes WIDE OPEN dealing with people?

Here's another passage that just came to mind:
Jesus ALSO said: (Matthew 7:6)
    "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast
    ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them
    under their feet, and turn again and rend you. "


Sounds like Jesus is preaching being CAREFUL in understanding people and their motivations.

From your post, I'm picking up that she's somehow threatened by your grasp of the knowledge/wisdom you are passing on. As if she's afraid it somehow conflicts with her very new, perhaps fragile faith? (Just speculating here...)  Are we dealing with a black-or-white thinker?

Or perhaps she is holding a contest in her head with you and others the for wisest and most spiritual??? (unbeknownst to you, you remind her of a sibling :aaauuugh:!)

When she complains about her family, instead of changing the subject, you might simply say something neutral: "Yes, I remember you've told me how bothered you were/the difficulties you were having, etc. etc.

My final thoughts: in the very least, she sounds insecure about something. Or maybe... EVERYTHING? Or...a lot of things? 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 12:03:47 AM by SpringLight »

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2016, 12:13:55 AM »
Leapsandbounds and boredpanda: yep, we need room for new friends, I guess. Or even just by removing the toxic people from our lives we already feel better and at peace. When I went NC and VLC with my uPD relatives I became much calmer, didnt have the anxiety before every interaction and the unbalance I felt for days after it. Thank you!

Lamplight, I will try to answer your questions. Its true she has no friends. I had noticed long ago that she only connected with men,  I mean, she only cared about a relationship. She would ask them to move in with her. Or they would invite themselves, I dont know. But once her sister (single back then) spent a week at her home and she got rid of her as fast as she could. I found that odd. Also, she used to rent a place for her business and have coleagues to share the place with her, in separate rooms... None of them ever lasted. I didnt find it odd back then, but now I do. Of course she always blamed them, but now it makes me wonder...

So, at some point I realized she never mentioned friends. Since we chit-chat, sometimes I tell her I have been to this garden event with friends, for example. She never talks about a friend... Some day we talked abt social events or something similar... Thats when  I asked if she goes out with friends on her days off... she then told me she has no friends. I told her kindly that she shouldnt get isolated, I mean, she talks to people cause of her job, but thats a different connection... She doesnt get along with family either, so I felt she was too alone... Thats when she told me she doesnt get along with people, she doesnt need them, she prefers to stay alone with her cats. It was not self-pity, it was her saying thats how she prefers her life to be, just a statement.

I really dont remember her reasons for that... Her being controlling didnt cost her anything (in her view). She meant she was controlling while in a relationship with a man, she wanted things her way. It was bad to the point of them getting into physical fights.

Her mentioning of Jesus reminded me right away of the "you hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."  But I kept my mouth shut. In my view, she likes to point fingers, but when people complain or express an opinion, she shuts them down with a religious sentence. Recently she told me some conversation she had with a relative and it was exactly the same: her giving people lessons on how they should behave and where they are wrong... I was surprised and asked her how come he accepted that, cause she actually gave the guy a lecture ... Now I see she does that to everybody and maybe its people that run away from her....

I guess she must be very insecure indeed, thats why she keeps going from one faith to another, trying to get validation, perhaps. I dont see much stability in her personality. Except for her job, she is in constant change in every field. It seems she has to have some strong faith, even if its temporary, otherwise she will sink.... I never thought of her being BPD, but now that you mentioned, there are some traits....

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SpringLight

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2016, 12:25:08 AM »


Lamplight, I will try to answer your questions. Its true she has no friends. I had noticed long ago that she only connected with men,  I mean, she only cared about a relationship.

Hi, Joan
I think you meant me, SpringLight, but variations like Lamplight, or even SpringRoll, it's all fine.... :D

Interesting...when reading your original post, I somehow intuited that "having no friends" meant "she only connected with men." Huge red flag for me, as it was for you.

Not getting along with... ANYONE? And resigned to that?  :-\   Getting in physical fights with men?  She doesn't see "being controlling" as something that held her back in life?  :stars:

Seems as though having any kind of a relationship with this woman would be extremely frustrating, in the very least.  For you, or anyone else. I don't like to write off people, but she's already broadcasting loud and clear who she is.

She doesn't seem open to much self-reflection or even learning from her prior mistakes.  Again, for me, a huge red flag.  I'd be reluctant to go beyond superficial pleasantries with her.

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2016, 12:45:01 AM »
SpringLight, so sorry for changing your name! Actually I read (and responded?) to a post by LampLight, so I mixed everything! Sorry for that!

You wont believe it, I had to take my mom to her today (my mom is her client too). She had told me the adopted dog was going to be nutered, so I took him some treats. He is very needy and loves me. He´d love everybody who gives him attention, she just doesnt.

I actually got angry at her, she stopped giving him pain-killers precribed by the vet. I said too much, including "why are you making him suffer?", "who hurt you, your parents?". I was out of line, but in a way it was good, her answer was "my parents spoilt me"... She had said the opposite before, she had said she was the SG...

It just reinforced my view on how narcs use animals to look nice for a moment and later ignore them...

Something I noticed today: its rare to have a conversation with her where she is not having this "nervous laughter". Even when we discuss serious stuff, she has this short nervous laughter... I dont know if its something common in uPDs or an indication of something else. It caught my attention and I will start a new thread on this.

You are right, I have to disengage and avoid certain topics. The dog thing messes with me. I will need her services again in a month, so by then the dog wont be there anymore. I will avoid topics that trigger me.

One of her husbands just packed while she was at work and fled the country (he asked his family to buy him a ticket, he was living off of her). She had relationships with complicated men, to say the least. She clung to them, this guy had to escape cause she was pushing him for marriage (thats the conclusion I got). Thats what made me think she has BPD traits... But her isolation makes me wonder, since BPDs cannot survive by themselves. I assume she´d rather be alone and control everything than having to accomodate to others. But still, it doesnt explain not having a SINGLE friend!

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and answer me. She has been triggering me a lot and for a long time. Maybe cause her behaviour his familiar, similar in some way to my uPD relatives.




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SpringLight

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2016, 02:37:14 PM »
Joan:
 ;D I found the misnomer understandable and amusing--something I could relate to doing.  In real life, I have a name that is frequently confused with other similar-sounding names . But it doesn't bother me in the least when people approach me with the wrong name.  And the important thing is the discussion, not our board names.

I am only just now getting the hang of this forum, how to respond, how to follow discussions. It will take me another thousand posts FOR ME to keep names straight.  I was going for something soothing, but SpringLight was not the most distinctive name on this board, was it?! 

I'm a life-long passionate animal lover, in a FOO who has always adored animals, and has taken great care of them (The FOO does have some redeeming qualities, I'm happy to say!... :cheer:)  The dog thing messes with me, too, and I don't even know her!

But, oh, yes, the subject of....narcs and animals...To cite a very extreme case, just to make the point...it is well known that  Hitler, the evil psychopath that he was...was known to be an "animal-lover." So, loving animals does not a Saint Francis make. :sadno:

This is a bigger topic that might deserve closer examination...

But, you raise another interesting topic about that "short nervous INAPPROPRIATE laughter."  This is something that I've wondered about too. I've usually found it slightly irritating, but for all of my life, I said nothing. 

Recently, it has really begun to grate on my nerves when ADULTS do this.

I've observed certain adults reacting with this INAPPROPRIATE short nervous laugh, when another ADULT is expressing something of a serious, solemn or deeply-felt opinion.  (I'm all in favor of lightening the mood with humor, but INAPPROPRIATE laughter is
the sign of a certain emotional immaturity, I think. And sometimes, it's coupled with a subtle put-down of a person )

This is only my take, from my life experience with people who do this. ADULTS who do this are not all PD. But one thing I think they have in common is...an inability, a fear, of facing "uncomfortable emotions."

I used to say nothing. But, now that I want to live an authentic FOG-free life, I'm speaking up, because it really bothers me. 
Recently, I DO call people on it, in a gentle but no-nonsense, assertive way.   A non-PD person will appreciate the input.

I realize it may not be INTENTIONAL...but, it's strange if not rude and off-putting, nonetheless.  And reveals a certain LACK OF SELF-AWARENESS.  Lack of self-awareness is NEVER a good thing, imo.

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2016, 06:32:55 PM »
"So, loving animals does not a Saint Francis make."  So sooo true, SpringLight!

Regarding the unusual laughter, I find your input very acurate. It may be an impossibility to face some emotions. I believe its something she cant control and a way to cope with emotions... What emotions, I dont know... Maybe anxiety and anger?

She poses as stable and in control of herself, organized, etc. Superficially she is all that. But I have known her for over 20 years (not in a deep way, but cause of business so there´s a huge distance among us). In this time I realized she is far from how she portrays herself, not to mention her constat lying (and rewriting history). To my knowledge, those are signs of a PD... which one, I really have no idea!