Judgemental acquaintance.

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SpringLight

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 07:34:41 PM »
"So, loving animals does not a Saint Francis make."  So sooo true, SpringLight!

Regarding the unusual laughter, I find your input very acurate. It may be an impossibility to face some emotions. I believe its something she cant control and a way to cope with emotions... What emotions, I dont know... Maybe anxiety and anger?

She poses as stable and in control of herself, organized, etc. Superficially she is all that. But I have known her for over 20 years (not in a deep way, but cause of business so thereīs a huge distance among us). In this time I realized she is far from how she portrays herself, not to mention her constat lying (and rewriting history). To my knowledge, those are signs of a PD... which one, I really have no idea!

Joan:

You've given us plenty of  anecdotal evidence to suggest some  kind of PD, or more than one.   I think the important lesson here is YOU WERE TRIGGERED, for a reason--your instincts are and were warning you to pay attention.  :yes: And I have to consider you have 20 years of encounters with her to process this behavior. That's a long period of time, and you may be overlooking or forgetting even more episodes of PD-like behavior.

Fortunately, we don't have to make an accurate clinical diagnosis to make an accurate assessment of whether this person is a good, trustworthy friend potential for us. Right? Although it's interesting to try to guess...

The chronic lying and rewriting history on its own is an EGREGIOUS trait. That's an automatic deal-breaker in any relationship for any sane person.

In your shoes, I'd gradually withdraw a bit in sharing personal information, do a slow fade.  Life is short. We can't fix anyone, and can't change anyone who doesn't want to change, and/or sees no reason to change. 

At the top of my list of people who REALLY can't be fixed, from my long experience, are CHRONIC LIARS.   :sad2:

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2016, 11:17:34 PM »
Just an update.

First I want to thank you all for your inputs, I just read all the posts again.

I had to meet her twice since, Im her customer. The first time went well, she seemed so normal, the conversation went well. She told me again abt wanting to find somebody to adopt the dog and I offered to try to help.

Then today, after she had my mom there, I asked her some work-related question (on whatsapp) and she was very aggressive. So I asked if she was fine cause she had been kinda aggressive lately. She was more aggressive and lectured me by criticizing me.

I guess I have to limit even more the contact. Also, I may have been passive-aggressive. Cause I feel like her punching bag. Im her client, for Godīs sakes!! How come she treats a customer like that?!?!

We are facebook friends and I just unfollowed her on the news fed, no nothing she publishes will appear to me. I dont want to be triggered. Im inclined to think of her as BPD, the push/ pull is odd... I should had seen it, I have 3 uBPD relatives...

For some reason, she is getting more aggressive. Maybe Im not so tolerant anymore... But I really think she is getting worse towards me. Thereīs something in me that makes her see me as a target. I dont know if she sees me as weak or if she is jealous of me. It may sound arrogant, but she has hinted about it before.

This is so toxic and I really dont need that in my life... Crazy how it can affect me!

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2016, 08:32:11 AM »
Another update: I decided to find another service provider. Her job is related to health and I was worried she may hurt me during the treatment.

I unfriended her on facebook and will find somebody else to provide my mum and I for the services. Actually, I told my mom to keep going if she wants, but she decided to follow me.

The thing I just realized is she is EXACTLY like my mumīs sister: a raging uBPD. A mix of queen/ with BPD/ NPD. My aunt hates me, God knows for what and this person is behaving the exact same way towards me. Its all so familiar and I have been triggered and her target for years but its escalating. It took me a lot to recover from my aunts abuse and I dont want to subject myself to the same again, now that Im aware of it. Im NC with aunt, btw.

Thank you for all the support.

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bopper

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2016, 03:09:10 PM »
It seems as though she tells you about a problem.
Then, as a reasonable person, you try to help her with the problem or offer advice.
If the advice is something she doesn't like, then she "turns" on you.

So maybe if you want to continue chatting with her, you start being more Medium Chill instead of stepping in.

"Hmm..sounds tough!"
"So what did she do about that?"
"Did that work out?"

I see you stopped using her...good move.  You should feel comfortable.
Just because they are incapable of loving you, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.
Anything makes the false self appear real is supply.

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2016, 04:41:52 PM »
Thank you, bopper.

I decided to go to another professional cause its too late for MC. She actually became aggressive towards me when its related to her job. Im paying for the services and Im treated disrespectfully.

Yep, she turned on me when asked for personal advice, but now its beyond that. And apparently she hates me now and painted me black. I endured rages on whatsapp, when  I was trying to help her with her dog and later on the work-related issue. Its exactly like my uBPD witch/ queen aunt: sometimes she is sweet but most of the times just abnoxious.

It escalated over the years, Im more aware of PDs behaviours but also I think she is getting more out of control. Her internal anger and frustrations just spill on me when Im there as a customer. I showed 2 close friends our interaction on whatsapp and they were appaled and told me I should had found somebody else long ago....

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Arya

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2016, 10:43:00 PM »
Joan:
 ;D I found the misnomer understandable and amusing--something I could relate to doing.  In real life, I have a name that is frequently confused with other similar-sounding names . But it doesn't bother me in the least when people approach me with the wrong name.  And the important thing is the discussion, not our board names.

I am only just now getting the hang of this forum, how to respond, how to follow discussions. It will take me another thousand posts FOR ME to keep names straight.  I was going for something soothing, but SpringLight was not the most distinctive name on this board, was it?! 

I'm a life-long passionate animal lover, in a FOO who has always adored animals, and has taken great care of them (The FOO does have some redeeming qualities, I'm happy to say!... :cheer:)  The dog thing messes with me, too, and I don't even know her!

But, oh, yes, the subject of....narcs and animals...To cite a very extreme case, just to make the point...it is well known that  Hitler, the evil psychopath that he was...was known to be an "animal-lover." So, loving animals does not a Saint Francis make. :sadno:

This is a bigger topic that might deserve closer examination...

But, you raise another interesting topic about that "short nervous INAPPROPRIATE laughter."  This is something that I've wondered about too. I've usually found it slightly irritating, but for all of my life, I said nothing. 

Recently, it has really begun to grate on my nerves when ADULTS do this.

I've observed certain adults reacting with this INAPPROPRIATE short nervous laugh, when another ADULT is expressing something of a serious, solemn or deeply-felt opinion.  (I'm all in favor of lightening the mood with humor, but INAPPROPRIATE laughter is
the sign of a certain emotional immaturity, I think. And sometimes, it's coupled with a subtle put-down of a person )

This is only my take, from my life experience with people who do this. ADULTS who do this are not all PD. But one thing I think they have in common is...an inability, a fear, of facing "uncomfortable emotions."

I used to say nothing. But, now that I want to live an authentic FOG-free life, I'm speaking up, because it really bothers me. 
Recently, I DO call people on it, in a gentle but no-nonsense, assertive way.   A non-PD person will appreciate the input.

I realize it may not be INTENTIONAL...but, it's strange if not rude and off-putting, nonetheless.  And reveals a certain LACK OF SELF-AWARENESS.  Lack of self-awareness is NEVER a good thing, imo.

not to hijack or take this thread off course--but I so agree with all said here.  Having worked with rescued large animals often over the years...oooooooh boooooy have I encountered so many people who "love animals" yet treat them badly and clearly have no concept of real empathy: that the animal is not a toy or something for your enjoyment/feelings...it has it's own mind and feelings you need to listen to and respect! I cut contact with a neighbor of mine because, she's totally PD, just ...sick in the head... I came to see that she "loves" the idea of being this martyring saint rescuing animals....yet once she has them in her care it's complain complain complain, they can do nothing right, are nuisance, cost too much, don't do what she wants...and wash rinse repeat, she crazily rehomes them to people you could wager on not taking good care or being an appropriate home. It was so cray cray and disgusting to me...I have like a PTSD trigger every time I pass her house, see her car or her. And  she tells people I'm just a snobby stuck up beeeotch who thought I was too good for her and that's why I dropped her....(steam coming out my ears) She fails to tell anyone how I made it very clear her irresponsible treatment of her animals was why I was cutting her out of my life because I couldn't stand to be around her!

Also agree about the laughing inappropriately at others stress/fear/emotion etc. Couple things I now view as a red flag OOTF, that flew over my head in past :

1.) people that find it funny/amusing to purposely upset/anger others with teasing/gaslighting etc.  Not friendly ribbing, you know the type, they bait other people then laugh at that persons reaction to being baited.

2.)passive aggressively smirking/laughing / weirdly pleased when someone else experiences any kind of negative emotion/experience. Conversely, scowling, frowning displeasure when someone else experiences a positive emotion/experience.

3.) ignoring, looking away, changing subject , sighing, eye rolling, laughing etc. inappropriately when someone is trying to have a important and/ or serious conversation with them---whatever the conversation/topic/situation they passive aggressively undermine/ respond to how important or meaningful it is to the person trying to talk to them.

4.) in terms of caring/compassion/ empathy---you realize that they do not really feel for others as really feeling for that other, if that makes sense. If they feel for some other--it's because something happened that they wouldn't want to happen to them. This takes on kind of icky proportions...covertly, they project themselves onto others "I wouldn't want that to be me!" without ever truly sensing, feeling, reflecting on what that other is really feeling them self. Animal example, I knew a NPD woman who really thought horses must suffer terribly being out of doors in pastures..they must really want to be indoors in a heated warm building, not out of doors living like horses. She had zero, I mean zero, ability to identify that no a horse doesn't want to freeze or starve out of doors, but with food and shelter they are much much much happier than they would be cooped up in a stall with heat! She would even say "Oh but I couldn't stand to be out like them!" um...yeeeeah, that would maybe be because you ain't a horse???? Ya think???

All really passive aggressive and covert narcissism I think?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 10:53:13 PM by Arya »

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Joan

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Re: Judgemental acquaintance.
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2016, 09:42:10 AM »
Hi Arya! You didnt hijack the thread and actually, you made very good points. Thank you.

Im sorry you dealt with such "animal lovers". Its just infuriating. "Narcs and their animals" deserve a whole chapter of their own.

Hoarding is a red flag to me now, especially regarding animals. I believe BPDs are so unbalanced that they keep adding them to look nicer or more caring. And of course, the complaining. Anything to look like victims and martyrs...

And as you say, they dont treat them properly. This acquaintance didnt vaccine her cats and they got sick constantly. I dont think she feeds them enough or appropriately either. And yet, she dared to tell me in a mocking tone that my dogs are "always sick". But that time I actually responded: "one was sick and she didnt have any symptoms, I found out cause I provided her with a check-up and shes in treatment. People take their animals to the vet when they are bad to the point of not eating, but since Im caring and careful, I found out in time and she healed". That shut her up immediately. My dogs were stray dogs and one had a disease from ticks, dont know the name in English. Its fatal and I found out a few months after I got her from the city shelter, they advise a hemogram every 6 months so I found out at the first one.

She has this weird belief now that the animals get "bad vibes" from their owner, so ultimately, the dog being sick was MY fault. She managed to acuse me of the disease and also say that Im sick emotionally... LOL. She doesnt seem to realize her cats are always filled with fleas and sick... She told me about the fleas herself! But of course, thats not because of her "bad vibes", it just applies to others.  :tongue2:

I agree with all you said, they might fake empathy towards animals but they dont have any, imho. They use them as a tool to look nice or even to get funds for their "cause". Hoarding animals while not having real relationships is a HUGE red flag to me. Im so sorry for their animals....