Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.

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enufbs

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Re: Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 05:02:26 PM »
Hi SpringLight. I have never pointed out my mother's invalidation of me. If I did, I suspect she would gaslight me or change the subject. But really, I don't want validation from someone who has invalidated me. I also NEVER disparage uBPDsis (if she does come up in conversation) when speaking about her to my mother. I speak of her only in neutral terms. In this way I've removed myself from the triangle.

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SpringLight

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Re: Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2016, 06:15:48 PM »
Hi SpringLight. I have never pointed out my mother's invalidation of me. If I did, I suspect she would gaslight me or change the subject. But really, I don't want validation from someone who has invalidated me. I also NEVER disparage uBPDsis (if she does come up in conversation) when speaking about her to my mother. I speak of her only in neutral terms. In this way I've removed myself from the triangle.

Hi, Enufbs:

I DO know what you mean about not wanting validation from someone who has constantly invalidated you. That is smart and sane.

But...(just thinking aloud here...) doesn't it make sense to make an "I" statement, nonetheless?  ("Mom, when you do that, it makes me feel invalidated.")

Just because we don't get the desired result, doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't make such statements.
Just to empathize with you, let me share ...what my mother would probably say if I were to make that "I" statement.

(Exasperated tone) "Well, I'm sorry, but...
I'm sick and tired of having to be in the middle of you girls fighting."
  :roll: :stars: This always worked: it stopped me from talking because it made me feel guilty that I was hurting Mom. But I always ended up feeling more FOG'd than ever.  :stars:

[Let the record show: As an adult, I realized have never "fought" with anyone (had conflicts and misunderstandings, yes, but NEVER verbally fought!) except from BPD ragers who attack out of the blue, often viciously and unprovoked. Then, I do react, usually, but not always with anger. But the crazier the rage, the more likely I am to lose my normal calm.

I hope I don't sound self-righteous here...because I have tons of flaws, and weaknesses! But, being deliberately mean isn't one of them.

Here is the entire list of people with whom I have engaged (usually me trying to plead for logic) in loud, angry "fights."  Only in retrospect do I realize they are all TEXTBOOK BPD. Many N's in my life, but there is no history of fighting and rages with them.
 
I've fought many times with..
1.) sis
2.) ex-husband
3.) a former BPD coworker/friend with whom I was very close.

Here's another typical way my Mom might respond to my "I" statement.

"Do you really think I said that to INVALIDATE you??! I can't believe you would say that/think that!" She would look shocked, stunned that I made such an offensive comment.  Mouth agape, looking genuinely hurt.

I know this intellectually, but all my life  CONSTANTLY and foolishly I have sought validation from invalidators.

I continue to fight the urge to seek validation from PD and from people who have never valued me, except in the ways that I could be useful to them.  Progress is slow.
 
My mother was the most consistently sane one in the family, so I often DID seek her validation.  But, coming Out of the FOG...I see that I am entitled to my feelings, regardless of her response.

And in making a statement  ALOUD to anyone, even a PD about how I feel often makes ME feel as though I've finally confirmed a truth for me.  So, for me and my self-esteem, it can be worthwhile.

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Joan

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Re: Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2016, 10:50:48 AM »
Hi again, SpringLight!

Im sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately Im familiar with raging uBPDs and the invalidation around us. I learnt here that usually, when thereīs one BPD in the family its not only him/ her, but most of the family is dysfunctional.

In my own FOO I saw that happening, there are 3 uBPDs (God help me!!!) and the system around them is not healthy either, otherwise measures would had been taken decades ago.

Another thing I learnt here is that uBPD moms put one child against the other, it may be by playing favourites, for example. You mentioned both you and your sister tried to get momīs attention and love and somehow you both fought for it.

This may be painful, but maybe your mom has more issues than you have realized so far. A "normal" mother wouldnt make her children struggle for her love.

Do you have any info on your momīs upbringing? On how your grandparents were? Now that Im more educated on the issue, I can see BPD running through generations in my family.

Regarding the ""Do you really think I said that to INVALIDATE you??! I can't believe you would say that/think that!" She would look shocked, stunned that I made such an offensive comment.  Mouth agape, looking genuinely hurt. "  Id say she is turning it all back to her. She is not caring about your feelings, but only on how she is perceived. And then SHE is hurt!

Thats a red flag to me.

Im glad you realize cant get much validation from her, if any at all. My mom was her uBPD sisters enabler and caretaker (my grandma was uBPD too) and she was either the SG or the invisible child. Now she is in her 80īs and she can clearly see it. There were times I got angry at her for not validating me and putting her sisters needs before mine (despite she didnt do it on purpose or was even aware of it, in her mind she had always put me first).

She realized that cause we talked a lot about it and I was able to clarify with the info I got from here. Also, she was very depressed, medication didnt work properly and I took her to therapy. First time in her life! Its more of a "monthly encounter" than therapy... The therapist is a psycologist and a priest, so that makes her feel better in many ways.

My point is, when we began realizing one family member has issues, we end up discovering the ones around may have their own things too.... It may be fleas, traits or a full-blown PD....

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SpringLight

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Re: Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2016, 01:14:58 PM »
Hi, Joan:

You raise some interesting points. It IS very painful to acknowledge certain things. But, at this stage of my life, it is MUCH MORE painful... to pretend.

Frankly, much of my family dysfunction wasn't evident to me until I was an adult. Everyone in my family was well-liked, high-achieving, well-regarded.  I have to say all of us have a very strong sense of integrity. This is what I have observed of their honesty over many years; but, of course, who can know for sure!

I have many happy memories of my childhood.  Even if my sister felt animosity towards me... from the day I was born.

But, in those early years, sis was the GC, but also the deeply sensitive GC who needed to be treated with EXTRA LOVE AND ATTENTION.  LOVE IS THE ANSWER!  :sadno: I was taught to be loving, kind, caring to sis.

I was perceived as being the child who was loved because she had no needs.  Look at her! So independent, that youngest one! Less worry for the rest of us. Springy taught herself to read at 3 years old. Oh, good, she can raise herself!

As I must acknowledge, many of my typical N Family problems, when they arose, were swept under the carpet. 

I moved away from my family (university, then career) for 10 years, keeping in touch by letter and phone call.

Year after year, the unaddressed dysfunction accumulated.  Meanwhile, all of us looked so
SUCCESSFUL. And LIKEABLE!  :stars: 

HOWEVER, my mother was ALWAYS the family anti-boaster. She always DESPISED  parents who boasted about their children. As a result, if asked about HER adult children, she would give "just the cold facts, m'am."   Or say nothing at all.

Then I noticed (in recent years) that she would only share the "negative" details with her friends. I don't like to boast, either, but I think it's inappropriate to divulge "negative PR" to everyone who asks.  There's a neutral version of communicating news to people outside the family.

Here's what I mean:

THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE in an unexpected encounter with a not-close neighbor.

NEIGHBOR: How's SpringLight? Is she still living in Blblblblblville and working as a Blah

APPROPRIATE TYPE RESPONSE: Yes, she is. She's ok, but a bit of sad news to tell. . She and X are getting a divorce. So, it's been a difficult time for her and hubby. ...
NEIGHBOR: Sorry to hear that. But SpringLight will be ok, she's strong and...
APPROPRIATE: Thanks, Neighbor. Yes, she is. And [to give a balanced, informative truthful picture] Thank Goodness she's tough and will get through this and that and has xyz, which she loves.  [then get attention off of this sad topic and onto neighbor] She's still riding her horse, is your daughter X still into horses?

THIS IS  MY MOTHER'S WAY OF RESPONDING TO A NOT-CLOSE ACQUAINTANCE...

My mother, who insists she has to be "TRUTHFUL" to everyone and anyone and not disclosing the negative is like lying  :roll:
NEIGHBOR: How's SpringLight? Is she still living in Blblblblblville and working as a Blah?
TYPICAL MOM: {grimace} Well, NeighborName...I don't know. (sigh, as if the weight of the world is on her shoulders) She's told us she's getting a divorce, and well, I don't know what's going on.. I really don't know.... (portraying me as "off" and unreliable and troubled!)
NEIGHBOR: Sorry to hear that. This is rough, it will take time...
TYPICAL MOM REPLY: She's unpredictable, I don't know. And her job...how long can that last? etc.

My amiable, fairly quiet, strong, independent mother, loved by all, the one who talks the least in our FOO, so fearful of boasting...has always been negative. Yes, depression runs on her side of the family, and I'm nearly certain on the other side, as well.

You are very perceptive in stating that Mom has more issues than I realize.  Only in the past 10 years ago, have some of the filters have come off.  Even BPDsis, who used to believe Mom was "perfect, above criticism" has revealed to me that she realizes Mom impacted her mental health in a negative way.

Obviously, just skimming the surface of the FOO here... ;)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 01:19:59 PM by SpringLight »

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Artsy

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Re: Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2016, 03:14:30 PM »
SpringLight,

UGGGG! Reading your post reminds me of my last couple of years with FOO. I have no advice, but to validate that you are in the thick of it. I was told that a grown PD family will have certain patterns and dynamics that keeps everything "stable" but when parents start to decline, things go back to childhood patterns that might be where your feeling sick to your stomach is coming from.

Your tethered to your mother as her protector (I was and am in the same role) and her buffer. You live in town with her and are probably closer to her as a result (I was too), and her frailty is opening up the classic, age-old sibling question (who can love Mom the best - and therefore BE the best). Your mother's enabling (Oh my gosh it reminds me of my parents who let sis kick them around, exploit, and mistreat them) and then TURN TO ME!!! Your mother, as my parents, allow you to absorb what they have allowed for years.

Some things I had to say to myself during my father's surgery: "This is the family he raised." "People die the way they lived." "It's not my job to protect them from the monsters they made."

Talking at length about this to my therapist I came up with some red-lines: Determine if parents are truly vulnerable (unable to set boundaries due to dementia or physical frailty). Protect them by legal standards (not by PD standards). Red lines are anything that compromises them medically (including mental health - driving them to suicidal thoughts, etc...) or financially. Anything that truly compromises their stability. Take a look at mandatory reporter laws regarding what constitutes abuse.

My therapist said it's a compromise between my need to rescue and protect them and the honest concern for frail, disabled people (not enabling people who refuse to set boundaries). She said, it's okay if I simply pick up the phone and call Adult Protective Services and then remove myself from the situation. A call to APS is why it would be important to determine if the vulnerable adult is truly being abused and not just living in crazy land with people they allow to mistreat them.

I had to constantly remind myself that my parents were responsible to set up their old age in a way that reasonably protected themselves from abuse. That isn't my job. By allowing my one BPD sister to exploit and mistreat them for years, they only set up a situation of her taking them to the bank when they could not longer deal with it. By quietly standing by and letting my brother verbally abuse everyone, and require everyone to sit by and take it, they set up a situation that when my parents were frail he escalated and almost hurt my elderly father. By ignoring the deep, intense, hateful sibling rivalry, they set up a nightmare situation for themselves and for us when they faltered. I had to keep reminding myself THIS IS THE BED THAT THEY MADE.

Had I been the parent of the family, sibling hatred and abuse would have been addressed and treated. BPD, Narc, would have been acknowledged and as their parent I would have taken steps to help them or protect younger siblings from them. It would have been boundaries galore. But I wasn't the parent of the family. I was the youngest. So why now, I asked myself, do I have to take full responsibility for their wellbeing when the sh-t hits the fan?"

One question to ask is who has the POA, because if/when your mother truly becomes disabled, that will impact your family dynamics so much, I cannot even tell you the extent of it. If you are not the POA, start taking steps now to protect yourself. It is going to be a freak show of the worst kind if your BPD sis actually has the power. If you are the POA, be sure to bolster yourself up and start setting boundaries now, because there will be a target on your back.

Be good to yourself. Your sibs behaviors are partially your mother's fault and ZERO your fault. You can give yourself the gift of not holding yourself the least bit responsible for their behavior. If your mother SG's you for not buffering, then set boundaries with her as well. Medical issues of hers do not oblige you to being abused.

I hope that helps. So, sooooo sorry. Been there and am no NC. My parents are a couple of hockey pucks being kicked around by adult PD children and I can do nothing about it. It makes me so sad, and yet what can I do but keep visiting them and loving myself?
"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams.

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enufbs

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Re: Help/support needed: rage attack by uBPD sis after ultra-stressful week.
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2016, 12:40:18 AM »
The reason I don't tell it like I see it to EnM is that that, to me, is a form a JADE, a concept of which I knew nothing, until reading about it on this site: JADE stand for: Don't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. The wisdom of this speaks to me on a gut level. That and, because I'm an introvert, I don't really feel the need to be heard and understood. But I do feel the need to understand. I like what Artsy above me wrote also, about having parents who created these monsters before we were born. I'm also the youngest and the family dynamics were set in stone long before I was born. So it's not my problem.