Does your pastor have a pd?

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1footouttadefog

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Does your pastor have a pd?
« on: October 20, 2016, 12:10:01 PM »
Does your pastor have a pd?

I have been thinking about it and several of the pastor's of churches I have attended most likely had PDs.

One was shy and did not socialize after church well etc.  He would slink away and leave his wife to handle socializing.  He was overall okay, but he also had a bit of s mean streak in his sarcastic humor.  I think he had PDs as parents from what he described in sermons etc.  Likely had fleas and was likely a bit if a covert narc.

I had another pastor who was an overt narc, but was not superior acting.  He just over estimated his talents and such to the extreme and over estimated his work, and success etc.  He got so wacky we had to leave.  He tried and is at heart a decent guy, but the exaggerations etc were unsettling.  It was weird, in thst he was the only overt narc I have seen that built others up constantly.  But then most can do that eith love bombing as needed.

My current pastor has a streak of covert narc in him.  He also has a need to be in control of details even though he claims otherwise.   More than anything, I think he was the child of a pd and has some overcompensation going on.

Amazingly these folks were all able to pass and stay successful in their work.  Just goes to show, that God can use PD folks also. 


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kiwihelen

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2016, 01:12:12 PM »
We have a couple of elders who have PD traits. It's pushing me to leave to protect myself. It sucks.

Thing is the PDs are often very damaging to faith communities and ate good at diverting attention from the mess they create.

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liftinfog

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2016, 05:11:48 PM »
I've seen my share, though not aware of what it was at the time. Sadly I think the allure of "leading" people and "helping" people are major lures for narcs and other PD's.

To make it worse, the people desperate and in need of help (like sheep without a shepherd), are easy prey for people who "have the way", or "can lead them to God", or "feed the sheep". That whole sheep/shepherd makes for easy setup for abusers to dominate people who are weak and hurting, especially those that are victims of PD abuse. It establishes a undertone superiority and smug, self-righteous pride.

Plus, I think the "leader" mentality (church or otherwise) of this society is sick and depraved from what Jesus demonstrated. "Leaders" in our society are supposed to be proud, strong, assertive, macho, etc, practically begging for a malignant narc to come. Jesus led through humble love and grace. When he stood with the woman about to get stoned to death for adultery, he didnt shame her and revile her into "being" better, He called out the self-righteous jerks and leveled the playing field by saying "You who are without sin throw the first stone". To the woman he said you're forgiven. To me this ius him saying "by grace I'm giving you a second chance. Let my love for you motivate you to change through grace. "

Most leaders in our day, in PD-like fashion try to make everything black-and-white, shame scorn, make camps, make fights, pick sides, and are nothing but divisive and self-righteous. Like a bunch of ignorant, overgrown toddlers. Makes sense why so many atheists have rejected Christianity for its "lack of reason".

"Leader" or "Pastor" in the context of this society causes me to be very skeptical and on high alert, now that I'm OOTF. At this point Jesus, and true real love are safe to me when it comes to religion.

I didnt even get into how the abused one's starvation for love and acceptance feeds of the crowd/culture aspect of congregational gatherings too. Out of time tho.
“Only people who are capable of loving strongly can also suffer great sorrow, but this same necessity of loving serves to counteract their grief and heals them.”
― Leo Tolstoy

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AmericanWoman

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2016, 12:12:30 AM »
I had to leave when they brought out the snakes.  I don't mind regular snakes but the poison one's is where I draw the line.  :blush:

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Inurdreams

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 10:42:18 AM »
My NPD stepfather decided to become a pastor once he retired, as a warden of a prison!  Seriously!  Just think about that for a minute.  He had a "captive" audience in both professions.

His reason for pursuing a life in the clergy:

He loved being in the position of people depending on him for their salvation..  He really did think he held the keys to heaven.  He loved that he had a flock.  He loved that people handed over money they could barely afford to support him and his lifestyle, i,e, Cadillacs, jewelry, furs for my mother, new home, etc. and what better mask to wear than one of a righteous man.

It sickened me how he actually laughed about how he should have sought out that career earlier in life.  And it was not because he loved the Lord and wanted to help people.  It fed his ego and wallet.

So yes, pastors are not immune to being an NPD.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many of them seek it out for the same reason my SF did.


Peek not through the keyhole lest ye be vexed. - Stephen King


Response to a Flying Monkey:  Apparently you are suffering under the delusion that I give a damn.

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Artsy

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 11:06:12 AM »
I would imagine you are going to get a lot of responses.

I agree with earlier sentiments that the pastoral role attracts certain PD types. I had one pastor who, when we joined his church, had a congregation that talked more about HIM than Jesus. I swore I heard HIS name more than "Jesus Christ." He demeaned and belittled supportive pastors and laymen (particularly if they were gifted teachers). He literally removed people from the worship team or from teaching who shined too brightly, always accusing them of being "Pre-Madonna's." He was a classic NPD and finally got caught having sex with an employee in his office. He had the gall to suggest since there was no penetration it wasn't really "sex."

A group of people tried to be redemptive and help him start up his own church and his inner circle became as wide-eyed and dutiful to him (again not Christ) as the prior church.  He took advantage of free labor and his first financial move was to give himself a raise (done privately with a highly influenced accountant and a troubled young man as his "executive team" - making it sound like he had accountability). Both member's of his ET worshipped him, and the accountant almost killed herself later that year.

This pastor is an extreme example, but I always see a thread of either narcissism (insensitive to the rights of others) or codependence (overly sensitive to the rights of others) in pastors. I totally blame our culture and the "ignorant sheep" who just want to belong to something special and who will not speak up or confront. I probably should blame the PD's, but you have to ask about a culture that seems to select them for leadership over and over. I've seen or heard of it too many times.

Good post!

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams.

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DuchessGS

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 02:55:51 AM »
They say therapists are often the most screwed up people.  Look at the motivation behind people who make their lives about helping people, while it sounds all selfless, it is often because it makes them feel good about themselves. While I was working in Haiti, I saw many missionaries come through "to help the poor black people" often their ideas of help were misguided inappropriate and really they were there to make themselves feel good about themselves or for the appearances, it was what a "good Christian" was supposed to do.

I have met a lot of priests and pastors in my life (I consulted for churches) and they are just human beings like anyone else.  Think about it, the profession is ripe for attracting control freaks and narcissistic people. I have met very humble and sweet pastors/priests too.  I personally didn't grow up and decide that I had a better relationship than others with God and that God should talk through me but there are some people that think God called upon them and they are better than everyone else.  Lots of wars are over religion.  I've seen monks arm themselves. There is a lot of power given to these people by their congregation. There is no profession which is immune to PD.

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1footouttadefog

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 09:17:54 AM »
I do think the question about why people select Narcs and covert Narcs into these positions is a good one.

I have encountered several as I mentioned, but also many, deacons, elders, and such as well.  I learned at an early age to stay out of the church business and not attend business meetings. 

I have gifts/talents of service, but they don't include the gift of business meeting.  There seem to be so many others with that gift I pass. ;)

And yes therapists and such are also over representing them selves in the pd world.  I think for many it's a desire to tell others what to do, and control.

Our culture seems to be producing of folks at an excellersted rate.anyone else feel this way.


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Artsy

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 01:03:25 PM »
1footouttadedog wrote: "Our culture seems to be producing of folks at an excellersted rate.anyone else feel this way"

Totally! :yeahthat:
"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone." Robin Williams.

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1footouttadefog

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2016, 10:20:51 AM »
And that should have read PD folks

I hate autocorrect



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tommom

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2016, 07:19:27 PM »
I agree with 1foot -more and more of them, either because I recognized it or it is growing -or people are feeling less "inhibited" in the way they act. (I think they call that disinhibition.)

As for pastors, Duchess has it right, it is a perfect place for attracting narcissists and control freaks. I have seen so many who are!

My pastor though, is the sweetest, sweetest man. He will run errands if you need him, came by once and just fixed my computer when he found out I needed it, he is just a dear. Sat with my husband at the hospital while I had minor surgery, etc. Always concerned for other people. Of course, he dad is clearly, CLEARLY OCPD, his mom is -I don't know what...something's very wrong there. The pastor's wife's is quite narcissistic (its obvious) and her best friend at our church is very, very strange. I heard she suffered a severe brain trauma, but she is just...odd. Rest of the church (its very small) are lovely but, well, broken people. (One of them hosts my childhood sexual abuse group, for example.)  I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out we could be called St. Non's.

But I do agree that many pastors are so, so, so narcissistic...or narcissists. Not all, but a pretty big percentage. I think when you see a "Mega Church" as they call them, you may be seeing a narc in charge.
"It is not my job to fix other people; everyone is on their own journey."

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Adrianna

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2016, 01:07:20 PM »
This is really interesting. I agree that the lure of preaching and control are magnets to narcs so there are quite a few of them in these roles I'm sure. As mentioned, many of those are in it for the ego boost and enjoy taking advantage of others.

The true ones, called by God, are humble. Our minister at church is one of those. He's a quiet man and very spiritual. Then again, we have a very small church. I think the larger churches attract more narc types (bigger audience).

To be honest, I used to watch OWN network's Sunday morning spiritual program and I just couldn't do it anymore. The egos of those people were just crazy huge, like they just 100% know all the answers to everything.
Practice an attitude of gratitude.

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Rainstorm

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Re: Does your pastor have a pd?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 04:18:10 PM »
Our church had a pastor for a couple of years that I suspected was a narc, but I didn't know him well enough to say so for sure. He came to our church when it was healthy and thriving but didn't leave it the same way.