"they want to talk to you"

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daughter

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"they want to talk to you"
« on: December 23, 2016, 11:46:55 AM »
My single Flying Monkey is my semi-enmeshed young adult oldest DS, who is the proxy-pawn of my parents, malevolent NBM and enabler-enforcer "I'm just a victim of your mother" NF.  Further complicating factor is that DS also has diagnosed depression, anxiety, OCD, and underlying Aspergers diagnoses, taking meds, seeing therapists, and emotionally volatile.  He's reasonably high-functioning nonetheless, attending college out-of-state, home for Christmas Break.  So he went to see his grandparents, to collect his $$$$ cash reward for visiting them face-to-face (they live 20 minutes from us), got his super-large dose of NBM's and NF's usual gaslighting and manipulation and flagrant self-serving statements about "we don't know why your mother won't speak to us".  Apparently disowning your daughter isn't sufficient "reason", nor is NBM's overt malice and my parents' history of malevolence towards me, nor is their 4+ years of post-NC manipulation  of DS and constant bad-mouthing of me (causing DS significant emotional harm).  (I've gotten lawyer letters from my parents in past year, further documenting that they've disinherited me, but no signs whatsoever of "we miss you, daughter".) 

DS came home from that recent visit to my parents, and pleadingly asked me: "will you go talk to them; they want to talk to you".  I'm flabbergasted, and feel this is, again, a "no win" situation, where reconciliation truly isn't possible, where DS is used as the proxy-pawn to initiate contact, where there's no apology or sincere regret, where my unremorseful parents have caused a "world of hurt".  And likely would appreciate a "2nd pair of hands" to attend to them, again.  Note that DS expresses that I'm the "problem" here, that my NC decision has "robbed him of his family", that I'm to blame for causing him these emotional problems because I'm a bad parent.  That's the fiction that my parents heavily promote, that they've been exemplary parents.  My parents tell DS (he tells me) that I'm "mean-to-old-people", irrational, and "crazy".  I'm portrayed as the "ungrateful" problem-child, the petulant daughter who deprives them of their grandchildren and son-in-law who "miss them very much, but are afraid to contradict their mother/wife".  I feel sandbagged here. 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 11:57:37 AM by daughter »

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overitall

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 05:47:11 PM »
Daughter,
Of every person who posts here, your story is most similar to my story...I'm not sure how old your DS is, but I have had the same situation......I had to bite, bite, bite my tongue when my kid (s) would relate the "poor me" stories from my parents....I basically told my kids that I have a personal choice in MY life and I choose not to interact with them...nothing to discuss, it is over on my part..final, OVER....I also shared with my kids A LOT of the background (things that they were not told by my parents, of course) 
Fast forward to present time.....all kids are in late 20's and 2 of the 3 are DONE with both of them....when I took myself out of the equation my kids were on their own with my parents.....slowly and surely their PD ways came out....uBPDm was vicious with one of my son's girlfriends and she basically told him she would NEVER attend any function where my mother was present....THAT got my son's attention because it wasn't from me...it was from an outsider who picked up on it immediately
Oldest S still stops in to visit when he is in the State, but it is mostly to visit uNd (he also cannot stand uBPDm).....as soon as my uNd dies, DS says he'll never see her again.....On his last visit, they presented him with EVERY photo of me that they own, stating that they "didn't know what to do with them?"  Let me tell you, that one move alone solidified every single thing that I have told him about my parents.....he does get it now, but continues to visit uNd (mostly because of guilt and uPd has cancer)
It is very, very difficult but over time they will reveal their true colors....they cannot help themselves, they are poisonous.....I used to think about it all of the time, but I have let it go and my kids know that there is no room for discussion re: my parents....I hope this helps you....

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all4peace

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 06:04:41 PM »
Your calm, even-keeled, concise explanation of how your parents have treated you never fails to make me feel furious on your behalf. So please know that while I have a LOT I would like to say, for now I simply want to ask one thing: Have you blocked your parents from all methods of communication, or are they simply choosing to use your son as their mouthpiece?

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TakingFlight

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2016, 07:08:55 PM »
That must be heartbreaking and infuriating that they use your son in their manipulation. If anything, it shows that they have no interest in a genuine reconciliation because if they did, they wouldn't use him like that. Normal, functional parents would have more compassion than that, they don't care that it hurts your son to be put in that position, they are just trying to cause emotional harm to you.

My parents behave in a similar way. They try and manipulate my siblings with the whole "we don't know why she won't talk to us, we have no idea what's wrong, etc... etc..." yet they have never put any real effort into reconciling. It's all about them, they are so "helpless" and because they have no idea how to communicate like grown adults, they throw a big pity party and expect everyone to fix it for them.

I am not a mother, so I don't know what might help in terms of your son and how he is hurt by your parents manipulation of him. Perhaps reasoning with him that they are adults, they are capable of communicating in a reasonable way with you but that has not been the case. It may be like overitall has mentioned happened in her case, that your son will take some time to see them as they truly are.

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moglow

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 07:35:59 PM »
You could explain to your son that he doesn't know the whole story and hasn't been treated as you have [thank goodness!].  Maybe even that what they're saying to him and what they're saying to you are not the same things, and that it was very inappropriate of them to put him in the middle this way.  Can you tell him further that *they* are not a topic of conversation you want to have any more unless/until you bring it up?

 Your relationship with them is between you, not your son.  You're not all one and the same.  He isn't responsible for your relationship with them or vice versa.  One isn't dependent on the other, but I don't see where it's unreasonable to ask him to stop "forwarding" their messages.
“Nothing exposes our true self more than how we treat each other in the home.”  ~ Joseph B. Wirthlin

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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Bloomie

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2016, 08:04:18 PM »
daughter - you know this is a double bind and that your son is caught in the midst and being used as a pawn has to be incredibly frustrating and hurtful and further evidence of your parent's lack of consideration and respect for anything but their own agenda. I am just so sorry this continues!

A thought I have had in a similar situation when there is feigned ignorance for why there is vLC with a certain family member with the cries of: "I don't know what I have doooonnnnneeeee...." ringing out for all to hear, is that at some point in our lives who we are and how we have consistently lived our lives has to count for something to those, like your son, who have borne intimate witness to our lives.

Maybe it is time to sit down with your now young adult son and ask him if all of the accusations that have been leveled at you by your paretns are consistent with the person he has personally observed and knows you to be. Also asking, is treating you this way and maligning you to your son something that he thinks loving parents who want reconciliation do to their adult child?

Maybe this is time for him to make a different choice about his own discomfort with the manipulations he is getting from your parents. Maybe your son needs to understand that by participating in these discussions with your parents about you is his choice, but you no longer wish to discuss all of this with him and being accused of having fractured these relationships is hurtful and inappropriate and undeserved.

Your son will continue to be uncomfortable if he chooses to be close to these malevolent PD people, but you do not have to take responsibility or be accused as the reason for his discomfort. You are not the one putting him in the middle, manipulating him, sending messages through him... they are.  And in some ways he is cooperating with the toxic dance and bringing unease into his own life, possibly unwittingly and into yours.
"You can understand and have compassion for someone and still not want a relationship with them."
Amanda E. White, LPC @therapyforwomen

Bloomie 🌸

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betta fish

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2016, 08:14:39 PM »
Hi daughter,

I am sorry for what you are going through.  My dd came to me a while back and told me some disturbing things my mom said about me.  The stories were so bad my dh and I decided to go nc with my mom.  My dd then said "Grandma told me you would do this...". I am sure your son said sais similar things.  I went to counseling and learned that my uBPDm probably told my dd everything I was likely to do and say.  When I did, it confirmed and validated grandma's stories.

Maybe you should set a boundary with your ds, no talking about the grandparents anymore.  From your son's point of view, he is probably scared and stressed at the idea of reporting everythingback to you. In the long run a boundary might be best for both of you.  Without realising it your parents may still be manipulating you into doing exactly what they want you to do. That is what I learned from a good therapist, so I don't engage or talk about what my mom says to my children. This has helped me improve my relationship with my daughter and I hope it helps you too.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 09:10:27 PM by betta fish »
“Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.”
― Maya Angelou

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Associate of Daniel

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2016, 10:01:08 PM »
My problem is wirh my ds10's N Smum.

She wanted to meet with me to 'sort out our differences for ds' s sake".  I said no.

A while later she asked me again.  I said only with a professional psychologist.  By the time I went to my 1st  session alone,  I'd realised I shouldn't meet with her even with the 3rd party.

I offered individual counselling with us both seeing the same counsellor.  She agreed. Then she backed out.

She upped the ante by telling ds, "I've offered to meet with your Mum but she's refused."  He came home a few times saying he wants me to meet with her and wishes we could all get along. Poor kid!

I didn't pull her up so she didn't get her supply.

She asked again to meet and agreed to individual counselling again. She tried to triangulate between me and the psychologist - BEFORE SHE'D MET HER. When that didn't work she bailed again.

She continues to work hard at alienating ds from me.

Sadly, his father rarely communicates with him and is very often not around. But he agrees with everything his Nwife (ds' s Smum) says. He wouldn't dare to disagree!

All I can hope is that ds starts to work it out soon and that my fairly good relationship with him isn't destroyed in the process.

AOD

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Spirit Girl

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 10:33:18 PM »
I've gotten lawyer letters from my parents in past year, further documenting that they've disinherited me, but no signs whatsoever of "we miss you, daughter".) 

What the he#*ll?!!!! WHO DOES THAT to their child?! And what kind of lawyer actually agrees to sending such a mean sick letter (in my opinion)?! On behalf of everyone I'm so mad. Sorry, I try really hard to be kind-hearted and encouraging to everyone on their journey here and keep my opinions to myself, but this takes the cake. I'm really really sad they did this to you.

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MyEyesROpen

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2016, 08:31:13 AM »
This is a horrible situation to be in Daughter. My heart goes out to you. My own PD parents tried to manipulate my own daughter in a similar way. They acted all innocent and told her they just had no idea why I wouldn't talk to them and didn't know what they'd done  :roll:

I found the only way I could explain the situation to my daughter was to talk to her about realtionships she had herself where she felt she might have be used or manipulated by friends in some way. Unfortunately or thankfully? she had a few 'friends'  who were also on the NPD scale. This seemed to help her understand the duplicity of some people.

Is there anyone in your son's life apart from his Ngrandparents who he avoids or has problems with because they have treated him badly? I know it is especially difficult because of his Aspergers, but maybe this is an avenue you could explore?
There are two kinds of people in this world: those who fill your cup, and those who drain it. —Joe Navarro

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Jade63

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Re: "they want to talk to you"
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 07:34:58 PM »

Maybe this is time for him to make a different choice about his own discomfort with the manipulations he is getting from your parents.

Your son will continue to be uncomfortable if he chooses to be close to these malevolent PD people, but you do not have to take responsibility or be accused as the reason for his discomfort. You are not the one putting him in the middle, manipulating him, sending messages through him... they are.  And in some ways he is cooperating with the toxic dance and bringing unease into his own life, possibly unwittingly and into yours.


Bloomie,

This is an excellent observation. And one I needed to hear, too.

Thank you,
~Jade