Removing a door as punishment

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sandpiper

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2017, 06:58:19 PM »
Annie that is horrible, and it is understandable that this would bring up a lot of painful memories for you.
It really seems to come down to the fact that PD parents won't allow a child to express anger or set boundaries and they don't teach any kind of meaningful dialogue for conflict resolution.
When PD parents to try to set boundaries it's done in such an over the top way that the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
When I was working with kids, we were trained that brief time-outs/with logical consequences for the child - in order to allow them to cool down & de-escalate the situation & learn from the experience - were the way to go.
We would check in every few minutes & ask the child if they were ready to come out & play nicely now or if they needed more time to think it over.
When I was in group T a few years back, the psychologist advised the same thing so it can't be that out of date.
This was a group of war veterans wives - most of them feeling very downtrodden & not being PD.
The T's advice was that children need to be made aware that there will be clear consequences for bad behaviour & those consequences need to be enforced immediately, so that the child knows that they can't walk all over you. We had women in the group who complained that their kids were mouthy, wouldn't help around the house, wouldn't do their homework, etc etc & that no punishment seemed to work.
He responded to one woman with 'What does the child value most?'
Answer: 'her iPhone'.
Therapist: 'Well, explain to her that if she doesn't do the dishes/laundry/chores when it is her turn, you will be taking the iphone away from her for 24 hours & this will happen every time she does (insert list of objectionable behaviours).
The woman looked dubious, until we came back the next week & she looked like a new woman.
She was glowing with praise for the T and said that she'd followed through with the explanation, the kid had gone 'yeah whatever' (obviously used to being nagged and whined at and never experiencing any real consequences that bothered her) and had gone merrily along with her 'I am the princess here and you work for me' attitude.
The woman said that her child looked at her in utter disbelief when she confiscated the iphone & that for the next 24 hours she had an entirely different teenager under her roof. One that spoke courteously, didn't goad her siblings, did the dishes, brought in the washing, made her bed, did her homework, and didn't bang and thump around the house like a hippo on the rampage. She gave the child back the phone a little earlier than she'd planned, due to the dramatic change in behaviour, with the caution that this would happen again if the behaviour regressed.
It didn't, and in the following four weeks that the group ran, there were no more complaints from that woman about her errant teen.

There was no such thing as parenting classes in my day & I have heard psychologists say that the people who take them often aren't the ones that are most in need of them.
It's incredibly hard to get a problem demographic to understand that their behaviour isn't healthy or constructive.
Having a parent rage and hit you or throw a tantrum of their own & lash out with an over the top punishment is never going to de-escalate a situation, it's just going to enrage, frighten and confuse a child.
I can't remember most of the things that I was punished for, either. The only thing I ever learned from that was that my parents had short fuses & god alone knew what would set them off.

Mo, I'm another one who would never have dared to slam a door - the consequences would have been a rage and/or a beating and it was easier just to go through life not tipping them over.
That said, I'm with the group that hate slamming doors. I had a room-mate for a while that did that and it was terrifying to be around her because she'd kick the walls and the furniture after she'd slammed the doors and because her rage was physical, there was always the fear in me that she'd go beyond slamming doors and walls and inanimate objects.
I can't remember what book it was in - maybe Lundy Bancroft - but I do remember someone saying that this kind of behaviour is psychological violence & you need to put a stop to it.

We moved house last year, partly for a lifestyle change but mostly to get away from a stack of really awful neighbours. One family near us were chronic ragers who communicated with each other by slamming doors and then screaming at each other through them.  After we moved house I had coffee with another neighbour who had moved two years earlier, to get away from the same family. Her first words to me were 'Isn't it wonderful to be away from that? I hope never to hear another door slam ever again.'

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AmericanWoman

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 07:34:57 PM »
+1 Moglow

Thank you for knowing the difference in whom gave birth to the children, the parents or the child protection authorities.  Even though parents do what many consider wrong they are still the parents as long as physical violence is not imposed.  Like it or not, the government is not the "baby Deddy" and has no say in child rearing IMO nor should they (didn't the Germans do this in the 40's?).

I do empathize with the OP and do know they need their privacy and agree, on the other hand door slamming would not and should not be tolerated by any parent.  Being I do not know the age of the person when the door slamming took place makes no matter - it's tacky and irrelevant to  N/BPD no matter if it's the child or the BPD parent is doing it.  Manners is what I'm talking about, something a small child needs to be taught but an adult should know.  Not trying to be harsh, sometimes honestly is harsh.


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Sidney37

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2017, 10:06:53 PM »
I actually had a therapist recommend removing the door of my elementary aged child who was slamming it (over and over again) during tantrums.  It was seen as a natural consequence to the behavior.  We were supposed to tell the child ahead of time that would be the consequence and then if the door was slammed (multiple times during the tantrum), the door would be removed as a consequence.  I understand it being a trigger for someone, but it is also given as advice by therapists. 

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SmolderingDragon

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2017, 11:04:59 PM »
I actually had a therapist recommend removing the door of my elementary aged child who was slamming it (over and over again) during tantrums.  It was seen as a natural consequence to the behavior.  We were supposed to tell the child ahead of time that would be the consequence and then if the door was slammed (multiple times during the tantrum), the door would be removed as a consequence.  I understand it being a trigger for someone, but it is also given as advice by therapists.

In my opinion, this way would be an appropriate consequence if the child knew beforehand that "x" action would bring "y" consequence.  What the OP wrote of is a typical PD style response of lashing out in anger where they are trying to show their dominance with an extreme measure.
"Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go." -- Mark Twain

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SpunHead13

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2017, 01:49:13 PM »
Ok...

I dont want to defend myself. I was not a bad kid, and when I say I slammed the door, I mean I didn't carefully close it to avoid making noise, as I did at all other times because Nm was extremely sensitive to noise. And the arguments we were having were not related to door slamming.

This was not a punishment that fit the crime, it was used as a way to get me to stop standing up for myself altogether.

And after years of ignoring me, this is how they decided to finally start parenting? By infringing on my privacy when I stood up to them!...

UKannie- My mom too did some weird wanting to see me naked stuff. It pushed me further into my shell and I think Im still working through some of the issues now.

MoGlow- I come to this forum for support and acceptance, I get enough people in my day to day life telling me to take my mothers actions less seriously. I would appreciate if you would keep your approval of my PD mother's parenting style to yourself.
It's always darkest before the dawn
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moglow

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2017, 01:50:12 PM »
I actually had a therapist recommend removing the door of my elementary aged child who was slamming it (over and over again) during tantrums.  It was seen as a natural consequence to the behavior.  We were supposed to tell the child ahead of time that would be the consequence and then if the door was slammed (multiple times during the tantrum), the door would be removed as a consequence.  I understand it being a trigger for someone, but it is also given as advice by therapists.

In my opinion, this way would be an appropriate consequence if the child knew beforehand that "x" action would bring "y" consequence.  What the OP wrote of is a typical PD style response of lashing out in anger where they are trying to show their dominance with an extreme measure.

I thought this as well, except for the following statement:

Quote
And after one of these, NM decided that if I ever slammed the door again I would loose the privilege of having it. A short time later, and we got into another fight, at the end of which I slammed the door to my room.

A short while later, my enF comes up the stairs with a drill, and with a lot of anger and determination he takes my bedroom door off its hinges. I begged him not to do it! The fights had nothing to do with privacy as far as I could tell. And the age I was at, I really needed my privacy and my room was a safe place I could hide and read and just stay unnoticed and safe.

I didn't see it as a removal of privacy issue, but rather one addressing the door slamming itself.  Of course, this one had a double whammy effect, and is obviously a trigger for several of us.
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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moglow

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2017, 01:52:47 PM »

SpunHead, please reread my responses above.  I never once said I approved or that I agreed with your mother's choices.  There's no reason for you to defend yourself to us or anyone else - the actions she chose were not yours.

"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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Medowynd

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2017, 08:44:58 PM »
I had a door on my room, but that never stopped my unPDM from just walking in and shouting at me.  Many times, there was an audience of several brothers and sisters standing behind her staring at me.  Lovely, when I was trying to get dressed.  My door was never removed, but I was told daily, to come out of my room.  There was work to do, siblings to watch or anything that would take me out of my room.  I loved to read and that always infuriated my unPDM.  She would rant about my reading and demand that I had to get cleaning or watching the kids.  Nothing she ever did, would stop me from reading.  Drove her bananas.  That was my escape in every situation.  Bring a book, a magazine, heck read the labels on the salad dressing bottles and the cereal boxes.  She couldn't stop me. 

I never entered my daughter's rooms, unless I knocked on the door.  I said please and thanked them when they were doing things for me or others.  And, although, I had a door-slamming daughter it was never removed.  She did break things and punched a hole in a wall.  But she lost privileges or other consequences.  Overcoming my upbringing has been a lifetime of work.

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SpunHead13

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2017, 12:40:07 AM »
Medowynd- My mom was similar, and I too read to escape (then and now). Im sorry your daughter has been a handful. Im glad you love her and value her space.
It's always darkest before the dawn
-Florence Welch

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elly87

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2018, 02:50:43 PM »
I know this is an old thread but I felt the urge to reply anyway.
At around the same age (12-14), my parents (both NPD, my mother is an en as well) removed the locks on mine and my brother's bedroom doors. It did not happen as a result of a fight but rather, they said they discussed it and told us that we were locking our doors too often and they didn't like it. As a result, I lost my privacy completely. I discovered that my parents took my diary, read it, and shared it with a neighbor (he was the one who told me). To this day I cannot keep a diary for fear that it will happen again. I was also walked in on by my father many times while changing my clothes or dressing after a shower. I later found out this is considered sexual abuse although at the time I just knew that I felt disgusting and exposed after these incidents. it is more than 15 years later and there is still no lock on the door.
They even took the lock off the guest bedroom door. When my husband and I returned to sleepover at times, they would not put it back on. My mother couldn't understand why a married couple needed a lock on their bedroom door. I finally put my foot down and told her that we would not return unless there was a lock. She then put it in after that threat.

Taking away a teenager's privacy is horrible and abusive. I would never do that to my children. Even now, they are very young, and I have taught them all about privacy and respecting privacy. It is a really big deal to me.

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SE7

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2018, 03:22:58 PM »
Thanks for reviving this thread! Never saw it before .... even though I don't remember my door being removed in my youth, I was also known as a 'door slammer' because it's all about not being heard and reacting in frustration. Once again, the narcs. provoking us to the point of anger, so then all the negative attention is on US not them! (just read about this in my Hidden Abuse book).

I actually have an example of something similar happening to me while living in my PD parents' house this past year, as a middle-age person! My NF took away all of the cable connections to the TV set in my room so that I would no longer be able to use the TV! NF just went into my room, without discussing it & without me there, and removed all cables like I was a 2-year-old. It was all due to a power blowout in my room (a short circuit) that was caused by having too many appliances on one wall - I made it clear it was NOT the TV that did it but they were convinced that because I had the TV on all the time that it was at fault - I don't think they even really believed that - they just tried to control my need to have the TV on, as it was my sanctuary AWAY FROM THEM. The power outage was just their perfectly convenient excuse for taking control of my ability to watch TV. Perfect example of COVERT abuse. To an outsider, it looks perfectly fair!

It was just another way that the NPD/BPD try to infantilize me despite me being a middle-aged adult. It's embarrassing. To top it all off, for my last 3 months living there, I had to bring in my own TV and remove all cable connections every time I left the house  - EVERY SINGLE TIME. I was afraid that my NF would steal them out of my room and that I'd be unable to watch TV! It was my lifeline as I tried to hide from him, so I couldn't let that happen. I was in a state of fear every day that he/they would hear the TV on so I had to keep volume down & hide the remote daily. It's no wonder that I'm still in a state of recovery (with the EFs to prove it) over a month later after moving out. I literally lived in a psychological war zone.

If I had had a choice, I would have never lived with them as an adult, but after decades of trying to make it through life after being damaged by them, my world finally came crashing down & I found myself without other options. I don't know how I survived living with them, honestly.

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KD5FUL

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2018, 09:51:19 PM »
I can relate to this. 

I got my own bed room at 15.  The first day I moved in, PD parents took off the doorknob.   I could close the door but not lock it.  I can't tell you how many times I would look over and see one of them looking through the doorknob hole at me, just sping on me whenever they wanted to. 

They never ever respected my right to have privacy of any kind. 

If I came home late from an evening out with friends they would strip search me in the bathroom.  It was so humiliating and I hated it.   I never understood what they were even looking for anyway.   I wasn't sexually active and didn't do drugs or drink alcohol. 

One year, PD step mom gave me a diary for my birthday.   She told me "this is for you to write down whatever bad feelings you have." 

I did just that.   I wrote all about how awful my PD parents were aND how much I hated them;   how I couldn't wait to move out. 

One day PD step mom calls me into her bedroom.  I see my diary on her bed.  She just started punching and slapping me,  screaming at me "who said you could write bad things about me in your diary!?!"  Between the blows I managed to shout back at her " you did."   That caught her off guard and I was able to run away to a friend's house.   

So yeah,  I totally relate to PD parents not respecting any boundaries or giving their children any privacy. 

לפום צערא אגרא

A victim of abuse who suffers in silence will suffer the most.

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StayWithMe

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2018, 02:01:21 PM »
Privacy is important to learn for two reasons (maybe more):

1. We need to learn boundaries with other people so that we don't make ourselves vulnerable.

2. We need to learn boundaries with other people so that we can respect other people's needs and avoid being accused of being "creepy."

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Hazy111

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2018, 03:56:22 PM »
I know this is an old thread, reactivated. But the title really triggered a memory of a uBPD i knew. 

There was a a family story about how she grew exasperated with her teenage son slamming the door and refusing to go to school, that she removed his bedroom door. This was brought up at various times as a laugh and a joke. But now i can see it as evidence of boundary violation and more evidence of her as  BPD.  No parent needs to do this, regardless of how a child is acting. The parent needs to ask themselves why a child is acting like this. But PD parents rarely do insight and introspection. Projection is all.

With my uBPD mother i would experience the looking through the gap in the reception door as a teenager while i watched TV. I now remember the main doors in the house were rarely closed. Really disconcerting.

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JustKathy

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2018, 06:44:41 PM »
Quote
At around the same age (12-14), my parents (both NPD, my mother is an en as well) removed the locks on mine and my brother's bedroom doors. It did not happen as a result of a fight but rather, they said they discussed it and told us that we were locking our doors too often and they didn't like it. As a result, I lost my privacy completely. I discovered that my parents took my diary, read it, and shared it with a neighbor (he was the one who told me).

Elly, this is exactly what happened with me. When we bought our house I was 10, and I remember my mother removing the locks from the bedroom and bathroom doors. When I was around 13-14, I started gaining weight with puberty and wanted to exercise in my room. The only place where there was enough floor space to do situps was behind the door, but my Nmother and sister (who shared the room) kept walking in and hitting me with the door. I asked my father for a lock, and he put a little cheap flip style lock on it. The door would still open a few inches, but at least it stopped me from getting hit by it. My mother was still furious and said I was locking the door to keep her out and hide things from her. Suffice to say, the lock didn't last long.

Not long after that, I too, discovered she was reading my diary. I bought one of those diaries that had a tiny metal lock and key. I was so young and naive, I had no idea those locks could be easily picked with a paper clip. I noticed a few times that the diary had been moved, and suspected she was going through my things. I tested it by writing about a fictitious friend. One day she yelled at me about something and mentioned this friend by name, the fake name I had been using. That's when I knew she had been picking the lock and reading my diary. I was mortified. Reading my personal journal entries was one of the worst of her many boundary violations. Like you, I've not been able to keep a diary since.

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elly87

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2018, 06:31:59 PM »
wow the similarities are uncanny! my diary had that same cheap metal lock and key as well...easily picked but I too was nave about it. you just never forget these things. losing my bedroom lock during such a sensitive time was so awful for me. I never felt like I had a safe place for myself. It is still hard for me to create that for myself and its 15 years later.

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truthseeker4life

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2018, 10:54:31 AM »
My dad who was mentally ill (depression and schizophrenic) was the one who BROKE down the bathroom door.

I don't remember what I did but my n mom was mad at me and sent my dad to handles it and he almost never parents so when he got involved it was BAD.

My younger sister was in the bathroom with me as we were hiding from them as the bathrooms were the only place in the house with locks on them.

Well my dad literally broke the door down with his foot. It took a long time too!  Meanwhile I was so close to tying towels together to escape from the 2nd floor window. Had there been bed sheets stored in there I probably would have done it.

I can't imagine treating my kids this way regardless of what they did.

It was sheer terror but I was so used to being strong and stuffing down my feelings. When the door was fully knocked down I was thrown across my bedroom and landed in my closet. I remember this because all these metal hangers fell on my head.

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Moxie890

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Re: Removing a door as punishment
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2018, 11:48:46 PM »
I had a similar punishment as a kid. Once I slammed and locked a door after my dad hit me with a belt for simply poking my sis in the arm after he told me not to touch her... I was trying to be funny. It took less then a minute for me to unlock it and run to my room. Later that evening when my uBPDm found out she barged in on me while I was in the shower and tore the curtain open. Then proceeded to yell at me while I was standing there naked and told me I was no longer allowed to shut any door no no matter what. I called her a pervert and you can imagine how she reacted to that, and I sure as hell didn't shut a door for the next week.