What do I say to this woman?

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Adria

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What do I say to this woman?
« on: February 24, 2017, 05:16:25 PM »
I met this woman at a church we attended for awhile.  Every time I run into her out in public she says, "We should do lunch, call me," or she will text me to go out to lunch, and then disappears. This has been going on for awhile.  So the day I decided I was done with her, I ran into her with my husband.  She was all over me like a wet blanket. "We need to get together, etc. etc.  I was polite, but said, "Ya know, laughing a little, you say this all the time, but then you don't return my phone calls or texts, so I just gave up."

"She pleaded with me not to give up on her, and said that I needed to be the aggressor on this one, that we really need to get together, etc.
I walked away thinking for sure this was the end.  Then my husband said to call one last time. I did and after two rings she flipped me to voicemail and I never heard back from her.  It hurts, as I think it brings back old feelings of rejection or something. It seems like she wants to be begged or maybe this is some kind of a sick game she plays with people. I will not beg her, and that is the last attempt I will ever make. 

What do I say or do the next time I run into her and she starts this again?  I'm tempted to turn and walk away, however, some of her friends are acquaintances dh and I run into as well, and I don't want to look like the witch.

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VividImagination

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 05:42:08 PM »
Apparently she enjoys being pursued

"My phone has been really weird lately. So if you want something you'll have to contact me. My calls and texts don't always go through"

She wants you to be the aggressor? Was that her words?
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 05:47:11 PM »
I like what you said about the phone. I will use that. Thank you. And yes, those were her exact words.  I thought it was a bit strange.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 05:50:43 PM by Adria »

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SPinSC

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 05:58:12 PM »
Adria, she's counting on that! Most rude behavior is perpetrated by counting on YOUR good manners for them to get away with it.

My suggestion is to be polite and greet her as always - for the sake of your dh and the others in that crowd. When she begins with her, 'We simply MUST get together for lunch!' Say, 'I disagree with MUST as you refused my last call and I never received a call-back. I won't treat you so rudely, should you decide to call and invite me.'

Another option is a plain calling out - 'I am a grown woman and do not chase anyone for friendship. We've already spoken on this matter and still I gave you one more opportunity to show you were sincere. You are not. I am done. Good day.' Pivot and turn to whomever you have to so you can get away quickly.

These are ideas. It's time to be plain, nothing subtle will do. She was blatantly false with you and treated you rudely in private. Pull the mask off! The others may be too stunned or afraid of her to applaud, but their hearts WILL be applauding for you.

Oh, how I hate the old guard and their tyranny of manners. They get away with their little cruelties because the worst is done in private and to upbraid them in public would be just too shocking. They just tolerate the rudeness because of their own good manners.

Women like that used to be so cruel to my mother. Acting as her friend, inviting her to their parties only to mock her behind her back. Attending her parties to drink her alcohol (my mother rarely drinks but would stock the bar for them) and still mock her out of her hearing. I may have issues with my uBPD mother, but that is the cruelest form of bullying to me. The target doesn't even know the bullies are hitting her! She still thinks they are her friends, though not one has called her in five years. *** sorry for thread hijack, but that kind of person just gets my goat and sets it to bleating! ***
I choose this day to rise up and be my best self, not succumbing to that which I sense is inside me, trying to drag me down.

Love is an action verb. You will know if it is genuine by the actions that support it, not by the frequency of the spoken words.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 06:12:12 PM »
Thank you for the ideas SPinSC

I especially like this one 'I am a grown woman and do not chase anyone for friendship. We've already spoken on this matter and still I gave you one more opportunity to show you were sincere. You are not. I am done. Good day.' Pivot and turn to whomever you have to so you can get away quickly.'

I would normally not be able to say that, but I am to the point of total frustration with her. At first I thought that maybe she was a little mentally unstable, but now I almost feel like it's some kind of mean spiritedness.

Oooh, that hits me in the stomach what they did to your mom.  That is sick. I will never, in this lifetime, understand people who are so careless and hurtful towards others.  Life is hard enough.  Why do people have to treat people with such blatant disrespect?

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SPinSC

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 06:55:37 PM »
My inspirations are Steel Magnolias and The Unsinkable Molly Brown.

Society - the higher you get, the truer this is - thinks too highly of itself. They use manners to be cruel and DARE anyone to call them on it. When someone does, they turn like vipers on the brave soul.

Honestly, how DARE anyone think something as fleeting and soulless as money gives them any right to treat others as less than themselves! 

As for the nerve to call them out - your hubby may be able to help on that score. Does he realize that his wife is being treated as unworthy of even ANSWERING a PHONE to RECEIVE an invitation? That's a lot of rude being shoved in your direction. Even if he's the new town preacher, that doesn't give anyone the right to treat you thusly. AND, you have the right, even if you ARE the new preachers good wife, to stand up for yourself and make clear the rules of engagement. YOU WILL NOT BE TRIFLED WITH!

That's what she's doing, trifling with your time, emotions and efforts. If you STILL aren't sure you have the courage, consider, she's like a mean cat owner with a laser light - shining that light, hoping you'll still run and chase it like a good little cat. Only to run the light up a wall and laugh at your efforts. You'd chastise such a person if they did that to an actual cat, right? Well, HUMAN, aren't you at least as worthy of defense from cruelty? Practice in a mirror, get that chin up. You already tried, politely, to call her out. She sucker punched you for your trouble. Time to set her straight about YOUR dignity and YOUR boundaries of acceptable behavior!

*** Have I pumped you up any? I hope so. I hate to see people treated shabbily at all, especially by those who think they have a right! ***
I choose this day to rise up and be my best self, not succumbing to that which I sense is inside me, trying to drag me down.

Love is an action verb. You will know if it is genuine by the actions that support it, not by the frequency of the spoken words.

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Thru the Rain

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 08:18:24 PM »
My husband and I have another couple we've been friends with for years. I used to work with the husband from the other couple, and we live in the same general area.

We used to go out together regularly, but then they started acting really flaky. They would suggest that we go out - we'd all agree to a day/time/location - and then they would stand us up. So we started checking in with them a few days prior to any joint plans - and they would just not answer their phone or texts - and not turn up.  We finally had to just stop interacting.

When we run into them now, they're very friendly. And they always say "hey we haven't gotten together in a long time. let's make plans". I always say sure, but then I just don't follow up.

I still like this couple, but the strange behavior really put me off.

I wonder if you ever did get this lady to agree to a lunch date - would she even turn up?

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 10:33:06 PM »
SPinSC,   Love Steel Magnolias. And, yes you have pumped me up.  My husband thinks she's just not smart enough to act decent.  I used to wonder myself, but this last round just feels so deliberate. You said, " That's what she's doing, trifling with your time, emotions and efforts." Good way to put it. I was definitely sucker punched, and next time I will be ready for her. Thank you so much for your insight.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 10:36:47 PM »
Thru the Rain,  It is really strange behavior, and I find it to be quite common since we moved to the south.  Hubby and I call it the "Let's do lunch crowd."  Then nothing ever materializes.  Coming from the north, if you said it, you did it.  But this woman takes it to another level.  I bet you are right, she probably wouldn't even show.  I'm sorry your friends treated you that way as well. Talk about sending mixed messages. Very aggravating.

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moglow

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2017, 11:01:26 AM »
If she's actually interested, there's no need for an "aggressor." One asks, the other accepts, they make plans together - and follow through. Anything less and she really isn't interested.
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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VividImagination

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2017, 11:31:51 AM »
She only seems interested in the process.
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2017, 12:14:07 PM »
moglow and vivid, it could be that she just likes to put on a show out in public, look at me, look at me, because it's always huge drama when we are in front of people, and that's as far as she intends on taking it.

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clara

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2017, 12:30:51 PM »
Once had a casual friendship with a woman I met in a group therapy.  She pulled this stunt.  She only wanted to be around  you if she had some "reason" otherwise she'd be friendly as all get-out and constantly suggesting we do this and that and then either never follow through or find an excuse why she couldn't after all.  Finally one day I encountered her in a store and she said "we should do something!" and I said, "Why?  You say it but you don't mean it."  I was thoroughly fed up with her after realizing she added nothing to my life.  Naturally, she got very angry and flounced away but I no longer cared. 

I think one of the reasons some people do this is because it makes them feel good about themselves to mouth nice-sounding words.  They can pat themselves on the back for being so "friendly" and willing to take time for you.  But that's as far as it goes.  It's probably a life-long habit that they've always gotten away with, as with this former "friend" who didn't expect me--or anyone--to call her on her BS.  And yes, this woman had narc tendencies although I don't think she had a PD.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2017, 12:46:20 PM »
Clara,
You said, "I think one of the reasons some people do this is because it makes them feel good about themselves to mouth nice-sounding words.  They can pat themselves on the back for being so "friendly" and willing to take time for you.  But that's as far as it goes.  It's probably a life-long habit that they've always gotten away with, as with this former "friend" who didn't expect me--or anyone--to call her on her BS."
That could very well be the case. Everything does always seem to be about her, drama, drama, drama.  I've been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I don't have a lot of patience for this kind of stuff, it seems so pointless.

Sounds like you handled it well. That's the point I'm at.  Next time, I"ll probably just say what comes to mind and not care. Then maybe next time she sees me she will hopefully walk the other way as will I.

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countrygirl

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2017, 09:11:24 AM »
Hi Adria,

I am sorry you were subjected to this "come hitter, now go away" type of treatment.  It is unfair and maddening.   Although I've lived in the North most of my adult life, I am from the South, and if I were you, I would "go Southern" on her, and say,  "Why, aren't you sweet!  But you're so popular, I can never reach you!   YOU give me a call when you're free."  And "rinse and repeat" whenever she puts on her act in public.  This way, you come off smelling like a rose, but the ball is in her court.  (Excuse the mixed metaphors!)

I want to share a similar experience.  Years ago, I met an intelligent, interesting woman who wanted to befriend me.  My husband and I had just moved to a new town, and I was very pleased to have met a possible new friend.  She gave me her phone number, and suggested I call her for lunch.  We had lunch, and then she suggested getting together again, and said I should call her.  Well, this was the pattern:  She always wanted to get together, but I HAD to call her.  She NEVER called me.  Eventually, I met someone who knew her, and we became friends.  I said that I really liked X, but that sometimes I questioned the friendship because I always had to call her.  My new friend said, "We all have to do that."  I said that I really didn't like it, and she replied, "None of us do."  After a while, I found that I could no longer be "the aggressor."  I stopped calling her, and I never heard from her again!   Obviously, it was so important to her that she be pursued that she would give up a friendship rather than call a friend!     

I think you are dealing with something like this.  I guess you could say that it arises from some insecurity on the other person's part but ultimately, what difference does that make?   Who wants to have a friendship where you HAVE to pursue the other person?   

I also wanted to comment on SPinSC's astute observations about how money and social status sometimes cause people to think they are superior and that the rest of us "lowly worms" should just put up with their behavior, as if the rules of common civility don't apply to them.  I am just starting to recover from a friendship with such a person, who is also PD (among other things), and her treatment of those who don't have her money or social status is truly horrendous.  And, yes, such people often get by with bad behavior because they depend upon the good behavior of others.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2017, 06:54:25 PM »
Countrygirl, you said "Obviously, it was so important to her that she be pursued that she would give up a friendship rather than call a friend!"
I just can't imagine thinking like that, but maybe it's the way things are.  Wouldn't surprise me because she does have to be all important.
And, the money thing, thinking they are better than us lowly worms, that could be part of it too, because now that it has been meantion ed here, the couple times I did hear from her is when she got her Mercedes, and another time when they were looking at a new house.  She even said she called because she knew I would be the only person excited for her.  I always try to look over things like that, but maybe I better pay more attention.   I like your quip about going southern on her.  I will have to practice.  ;) Thank you so much for your thoughts.
     

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countrygirl

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 07:26:38 PM »
Hi Adria,

Wow!  She can sure pick up the phone when she has something to brag about.  I have an acquaintance like that. 

Yes, the key to doing the Southern thing is to always appear sweet and enthusiastic, no matter how you really feel.  It can be fun to give it back to people.  I once did it here in the North when a dentist was trying to overcharge me.  I said,  "It's just too bad we can't have everything we'd like, isn't it?  I would love to live in a penthouse, but I can't afford that.  And I guess I will just have to go to a dentist I can afford, too."  Suddenly, his receptionist told me that they had been mistaken, the doctor didn't need to do all that work, could do fillings instead of caps, etc., etc.  I answered.  "Oh no, you told me I needed all that work, and I trust your opinion!"   So just agree with your friend and compliment her on how busy she is, how popular she is, etc.  In fact, say you don't want to interrupt her busy day with a phone call!   

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SPinSC

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2017, 07:35:28 PM »
OUCH!  I still live in the South and let me tell you - that is exactly how it goes around here.

Smile while stabbing the knives. It took me months to figure out that I needed to wear armor for the first five-twelve months of any new job - those knives can come out at ANY time!

But, be careful. For those not used to using Southern Killer Charm it can be turned back on you quickly. These are skilled players. Practice before setting out to 'Go Southern'.

And - Wow, Country Girl - you could give paid lessons! I'd have paid a LOT to learn that 25 years ago!
I choose this day to rise up and be my best self, not succumbing to that which I sense is inside me, trying to drag me down.

Love is an action verb. You will know if it is genuine by the actions that support it, not by the frequency of the spoken words.

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VividImagination

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2017, 09:20:51 PM »
Oh, SP...bless your little heart.  :)
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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Adria

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Re: What do I say to this woman?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 11:03:51 AM »
Yes, I witness that southern thing down here all the time, bless your heart. It's quite a skill. 
You know how us northerners are, blunt, straight and to the point.  As much as I would like to, I'm not sure I could pull it off without sounding a little snarky.  I'm sure they can spot a counterfeit a mile away.  ::)