"You'd be really sorry if something really happened."

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Liketheducks

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"You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« on: March 29, 2017, 11:44:02 PM »
As friend who knows my mom and the stuff we've been through...(currently approaching month 4 of her cutting me off when I offered alternative living accommodations - not my house anymore) said we need to fix this...and that I'd really be sorry if something happened.   I explained to her that I offered not just a choice of 3 different rental homes, but cash to return home.  And, also that Mom turned me down only to tell my sibs that I made her homeless.....and how she left the Christmas gift my child picked out and paid for on his own.... I left the explanation at that.  But truth is, I WOULD be sorry.  I can't control any of it.  Frankly, things have been much, much easier on our FOC since she's moved out. 

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Menopause Barbie

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 12:22:22 AM »
Hi, my friend!  :heythere:  I have had this same line of thought. Like you, NC was thrust upon me and continues because my uBPDmom would rather discard me and my children than change...or even admit that things needed to change. Every now and then I muse about whether or not her treatment of me constituted actual abuse since her motivation has always seemed to be not to hurt me, but to protect herself. If I am collateral damage in her lifelong quest to protect her waify, damaged psyche, then so be it--goal # 1 is to protect herself. But this silent treatment/withholding of affection that your mom and my mom are now using as the sick fire under the stake which they strap themselves to martyr-style whenever anyone is looking...this is a hostile act.  It is abusive. I think they excitedly daydream about when they die and won't she be sorry!  :stars:   This is proof that, all along, their treatment of us was, in fact, covertly malicious. They would never risk burdening us with lifelong guilt in the event of their deaths if they were not malicious. It is one of the meanest things a person can do to another person. They make reconciliation impossible, subtly, waifily badmouth us to everyone in the FOO, and then wait to get the ultimate revenge. I am determined to not let her have that revenge. I will not accept her final act of abuse, and neither should you.

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TakingFlight

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 08:30:59 AM »
I guess for me it's hard to know how I'll feel if "something happened". But the truth of the matter is that I'm already sorry. I'm sorry that it is what it is. I'm sorry that I had the parents I did, I'm sorry that they are so "helpless" that they can't take any personal responsibility. I'm sorry that they are unable to approach me in a way that is respectful of me, and where I'm at. I'm sorry about a lot of things. And no doubt if "something happened" I'd be feeling a whole lot of emotions. But I think what people fail to realise when they say things like that, that are intended as guilt trips, is that we have already considered all of that. NC isn't something that anyone here takes lightly. I'm sorry that the friend doesn't understand how difficult this has been for you.

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moglow

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 04:01:33 PM »
I read this and immediately had the same response as TakingFlight:  I'm already sorry, in ways no one else can possibly imagine. I'm sorry so few people understand how gut wrenching it is to be in a position where to all intents and purposes, I don't have a mother. I'm sorry mother is so totally incapable of seeing outside herself and having any real empathy or compassion for others.


I'm sorry I've never had any inkling of "if/when something happens," because I very simply never had "something" to lose here. I'm sorry I have arrived at this realization through decades of negative reinforcement - and that there are people in my life who *know* what I've survived and still dare say those things to me.

Most of all I guess I'm sorry there is a need for Out of the FOG, where so many come together in pain. In anger. Disappointment. Frustration. Grief. HERE, I find the empathy and compassion so sorely lacking where mother is concerned.
 :hug:
“Nothing exposes our true self more than how we treat each other in the home.”  ~ Joseph B. Wirthlin

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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Adria

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 05:04:22 PM »
If something happens? :aaauuugh:  Something has already happened.  They have already let us know we are dead to them, and we live our lives grieving for something they would never let us have. 

My mom died and nobody told me.  Now, my father is very ill and I have flying monkeys telling me about it.  I have taken the voicemail off my phone.  My father has been contacting my son (who has suffered mental illness because of them) telling him how sick he is (poor grandpa).  I think he is trying to invoke me calling him, but I'm not going to.  My dad stopped the whole family from telling me how ill my mother was, and then after she died, and the funeral,  he told my son, "Tell your mom that her mother is dead."  In those exact words.

Their motto was "Take it to the grave."  The really sad thing is, is that after my mom died and I got over the shock of how I was treated, I felt nothing but relief.  Relief because I didn't have to worry about her lying about me anymore, and hurting me and my children.  Now, unfortunately with my dad, "If something happens," I've already been there . . . done that.  I have contacted him in the last year just for my own self, nothing's changed. So, I guess whatever happens, happens. He's as mean and selfish as they come.  Do I wish it was different, heck yeah! But it's not, and that is because of him. 

I am a very kind, empathetic person, so it is so sad for me to think of how hard I have had to become towards them just to survive.  Don't let anyone put a guilt trip on you.  This whole thing is a mess, not of our making.  We do the best we can at the time. If we make a mistake, oh well.  Who would know how to deal with all this garbage perfectly? 

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Fuzzydog

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 07:11:58 PM »
Amazing how everybody says that.  But, like all the people say here, we're already sorry about so many things.  No one does this NC thing with glee, or on a whim, or from petulance.
I have lost my mother twice.  In 2006 when it really hit home what she is (N) and how that meant that she never actually loved me (I had suspected, but the concept was too awful to ponder); in 2015 when I went NC with her, and I'm figuring number three when she passes.  She's almost 93, we're probably not looking at more than a decade.  Not kidding, there, her health is better than mine.  I look forward to the relief of having it all be finished.

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Adria

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2017, 09:05:09 PM »
Thing is, is haven't we had to bury them in our minds quite some time ago, and maybe more than once?  Grieving living deaths is way more difficult than grieving a real death. It's sad to say, but their funeral is almost like finally getting closure. In some ways, it's almost like finally you get to wake up from the nightmare. The shadows are gone.

This is not to say that you don't grieve what you wish you could have had with them. I guess in my case, I've been no contact for almost 2 1/2 decades, so I might feel differently than some, and by the way, my parents were the ones that initiated the NC. For years I thought it was going to kill me because they never ever let us talk anything out. It is a very difficult and cruel way to live.

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daughter

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 09:12:37 PM »
My NC was also instigated by my acknowledgment that I was already getting "soft silent treatment" from NBM and nsis, plus their blatant disdain and overt disrespect when they did deem to engage with me, all with enabler-enforcer NF's tacit full complicity.  Post-NC, NBM and nsis ignored me altogether: no calls, no invites, me apparently officially "dead to them" if I wasn't attentive and compliant.  But NF and NBM also outrageously hoovered our oldest DS teen (has Aspergers + clinical depression) denouncing me, accusing me of "being crazy", "mean to old people", that they "had no idea what problem was".  I can't be sorry if something really happens, because it ALREADY HAPPENED.  Likewise, this last episode probably was final acknowledgment for you that it's time to "drop the rope", that family relationships aren't defined by us just "giving, giving, giving" till we drop dead.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 09:19:13 PM by daughter »

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Tootsie Roll

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2017, 01:45:11 AM »
I'm sure many of us, if not nearly all of us here have heard a similar guilt trip.  I have often thought, "what will I feel like when they die?"  The rest of the world intimates that I will feel guilty and horrible for cutting then out of my life.  But, when I come here, and I read what other's in similar situations have said, how they reacted...  well, I don't think it will be all that horrible.

Although I have fantasized about spitting on my dad's coffin at his funeral.  But, that means I'd have to show up - not worth it. 

I find a lot of strength in the definition of No Contact which specifies NONE!  Not even at their funeral.  I like the feeling of strict boundaries this imparts.  It makes me feel safe. 
To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.  To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own future.  To let go is not to be protective, it is to permit another to face reality.

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Liketheducks

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2017, 10:24:09 AM »
Thank you all.  This mourning business is a tough thing.   Something HAS already happened.   My son celebrates a birthday next week.   Presents have been arriving from Grandparents overseas.  I have to wonder what, if anything, my mother will do.  It makes me really sad to contemplate.   And, don't get me started on this upcoming Mother's Day.  I'm thinking about scheduling some serious self-care all day with no internet or phone.

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randompanda

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 10:55:06 AM »
The "you'll be sorry if something happens" is a form of emotional blackmail.  It's saying that you're required to toe the line just because they're older and therefore "closer" to death.  Let me abuse you - I'll be dead soon!  Literally every person on this planet is going to die someday, that doesn't mean anyone should have to tolerate abuse from someone.  I've never met a PD who didn't think they were the only person on Earth who will die someday, like it'll be a national tragedy.

I wonder if the PDs in our lives ever think about how bad they'll feel when we're gone?  "Uh oh, I better stop abusing this person because I'll be sorry if something happens!"  I can bet they probably don't, because everything is about them.  What's more likely than them wondering if they'll be sorry if something happened to you, is them loving the idea of how guilty you'll feel if something happened to them.  I've met some toxic people who are positively gleeful at the idea of haunting someone from beyond the grave!

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Menopause Barbie

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2017, 12:03:19 PM »
Quote from: randompanda
I wonder if the PDs in our lives ever think about how bad they'll feel when we're gone?

I have wondered this, too. I think that PDs, at least the ones I know, will think that I got what I deserved for NCing them, that now that I'm out of the way maybe they have a shot at resuming a "relationship" with my FOC, and that they are better people than I ever was as evidenced by their very public mourning (in contrast with their inner relief/joy that I've been punished for standing up to them) and "loving" attempts to reach out to my FOC. I know they SHOULD feel bad, but I don't think they could muster up enough self-reflection to do so.

 We, on the other hand, must constantly fight the urge to take blame for the deaths of our PD relationships while they are living, (as Takingflight and others wisely pointed out) as well as after they actually die. Their deaths change nothing, because they are as impossible to get through to when they are dead as they were when they were living. And it is tragic; it really is.

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Adria

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2017, 12:35:16 PM »
Menopausebarbie, great post!

Quote
I have wondered this, too. I think that PDs, at least the ones I know, will think that I got what I deserved for NCing them, that now that I'm out of the way maybe they have a shot at resuming a "relationship" with my FOC, and that they are better people than I ever was as evidenced by their very public mourning (in contrast with their inner relief/joy that I've been punished for standing up to them) and "loving" attempts to reach out to my FOC. I know they SHOULD feel bad, but I don't think they could muster up enough self-reflection to do so.

It brought back to me an old reoccuring dream I used to have.  The dream was that my family walked up on an accident.  When they realized that I had been hit by a car and lying dead on the side of the road, my father simply stated, "Oh, it's just Adria, let's go to McDonalds." Sorry to say, but that's the harsh cold reality of it all.

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Wish Camp

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2017, 03:19:07 PM »
Hello!! Sorry a family friend felt the need to bring out the guilt and obligation cards.  As pretty much everyone has said we are all sorry already, we don't need anyone to tell us how terrible we are.  BUT!! We are not terrible people, we are giving ourselves some much deserved self preservation.  I got the letter in December trying to send the message that if I didn't find my way back I would live a life of regret. I burned the letter and decided that my mother's well-intentioned friend only had one side of the story and I wasn't going to share mine with her. 

You offered alternatives to your mother and she didn't want to take those.  You did what you could and she said no.  You are already in mourning for the way things ended up and you don't know need guilt heaped on top of that.  I really am sorry that someone made you feel bad.  :bighug:

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Tootsie Roll

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2017, 01:32:03 AM »
I wonder if the PDs in our lives ever think about how bad they'll feel when we're gone?  "Uh oh, I better stop abusing this person because I'll be sorry if something happens!"  I can bet they probably don't, because everything is about them.  What's more likely than them wondering if they'll be sorry if something happened to you, is them loving the idea of how guilty you'll feel if something happened to them.  I've met some toxic people who are positively gleeful at the idea of haunting someone from beyond the grave!
My mom, well, in the short run would be sad I was gone.  But, in the long run - she'd be milking all the pity and attention she could drain from everyone!  She'd have fuel to live for the rest of her life!  It would be a major win.  'Course, they would all talk about how I deserved it, how God's will came true (while quoting all the applicable Bible verses), my dad would write sermons about how I got what I had coming to me, my KKK brother would laugh his nasally, evil, high pitched laugh and order a keg for everyone to celebrate my demise, all the while talking about which of his AK-47's, or oozies (spelling?) would have shot through my head to create the best splatter pattern...  And, everyone would think this behavior is perfectly normal and exactly how my death should be celebrated.
To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.  To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own future.  To let go is not to be protective, it is to permit another to face reality.

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TakingFlight

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2017, 07:41:01 PM »
I wonder if the PDs in our lives ever think about how bad they'll feel when we're gone?  "Uh oh, I better stop abusing this person because I'll be sorry if something happens!"  I can bet they probably don't, because everything is about them.  What's more likely than them wondering if they'll be sorry if something happened to you, is them loving the idea of how guilty you'll feel if something happened to them.  I've met some toxic people who are positively gleeful at the idea of haunting someone from beyond the grave!

***** TRIGGER WARNING *****





This is something that hits pretty close to home for me, as I struggle with my mental health and have to admit I've had numerous times where I've been close to giving up (one of the main reasons I won't is because of my cat, she was an abandoned stray when I got her, now she is bonded to me, and I just couldn't abandon her like that). But I won't lie, suicide is something I have seriously thought about.

Without going into too much detail about my mental health history, suffice to say that I've been dealing with mental health issues for over twenty years now, having first been referred to a psychiatrist when I was a teenager (although I had undiagnosed anxiety that was obvious even when I was a young child). My parents KNOW THIS. But you can bet they don't consider my feelings at all or the potential impact on me, when they send their guilt trip, angry or 'woe is me' messages.  All they think about is their own feelings.

I honestly think they'd be happier if I did take my own life (which gives me another great reason NOT TO - I can't bear the thought of them soaking in sympathy and self righteous pity). That way they could play the poor bereaved parents, 'oh there was nothing we can do', 'she must have been hurting so much - at least she's at peace now' etc... etc...I'll be damned if I let that happen.

It still hurts though, that they don't consider my mental wellbeing at all. It's all about them. Which means nothing has changed. They are still the same selfish people they always were. I'm stronger though, which is one thing I am very, very grateful for.


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carrots

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2017, 08:22:14 PM »
Multiple great posts on this thread, thanks everbody!

 I used to be just spitting with rage about all what was done to me by the PDs and enablers in my FOO. That combined with worry that I might not make it through my therapeutic process in time to have meaningful contact again (have been NC to one member of FOO before). But now in the past few months as I realise that VLC or NC are really the only way for me to move forward and heal, I do find myself feeling more and more sorry. I'm sorry that the PDs in FOO just don't get it, I'm sorry that there is no healthy way out of this situation other than severely reducing contact or cutting it altogether, I'm sorry even that the PDs seem so clueless. Yeah, that seems to be the biggest thing: I'm so sorry that they don't get it. Like, "I have to do this to you guys to protect myself because you are emotionally so unintelligent, so clueless." It's almost laughable, except that it has caused so much heartbreak for me over the years, and so many problems. I mean because I'm one of these adult children of PDs who has ended up pretty damaged emotionally, with CPTSD.
I belong on OOTS of course and post far more there than on here.

I don't actually even think that my M and F would be happy if I were to predecease them. That's what is partly so sad - they are soooo clueless, though educated, intellectually intelligent and all that. And it's not as if I have not tried to tell them. They. Don't. Get. It.

My last contact with PD/Enabler sibs made me think they would maybe feel relieved if I got lost, in whatever way that might take, though if I predeceased M and F, they might be rather annoyed because they'd have to support M and F more.

I get some of what you're saying, TakingFlight, because my PDs all know that I have CPTSD and they knew in my childhood that something was wrong, but decided that in actual fact I was wrong, otherwise known as scapegoating.

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Tootsie Roll

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 01:11:08 AM »
Taking Flight:  I've suffered from depression for at least 35 years.  I'm 46 now.  I started on Paxil in the mid-90's.  Now on Lexapro 20 mg.  Without it, I am sure I would have committed suicide a loooong time ago.  It was my cats that kept me kicking too.  About 15 years ago my mom told me how her terrible her x-daughter in law was because she brought her son (my nephew) to a psychiatrist and he was started on anti-depressants.  Obviously, according to my PDmom the son had problems because of the mother (who is an A+ woman).  I have never told my parents I suffer from clinical depression.  They judge enough, I don't need to give them anything more. 

Carrots:  I have been diagnosed with PTSD as well.  I figure I'm a lucky one because I remember so little.  I honestly don't think anything too traumatic happened to me, I was just severely afraid it would.  So, I blocked out whole years and years and years.  I'm actually pretty cool with that and really don't have a desire to find out what I don't remember. 
To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.  To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own future.  To let go is not to be protective, it is to permit another to face reality.

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TalenCrowhaven

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2017, 01:57:23 AM »
How perfect for the PDs when they drive their scapegoat children over the edge to suicide. What a "Win-Win" it is for them. It proves they were always right about their defective offspring. They reap tons of sympathy over the death of said child. Yes, no parent should ever have to bury their child...

The time when I was almost done in by them (20 years ago), I swear I held on in that moment simply to not let them destroy me and get supply from my death. And, it has been well worth hanging in there! Please, remember that when you feel you can't take it any more.

The saga continues to this day and I could write a book on these people, if only I cared enough to spare the ink.


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carrots

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Re: "You'd be really sorry if something really happened."
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2017, 07:36:57 AM »
As others have written on this thread and possibly elsewhere, my pets keep me going through bad phases. They always have. Particularly when I was a young teenager that was the only healthy reason not to end it all. I'm not suicidal any more. It's more that looking after my pets helps me to look after myself too. And of course if anybody asks - and people often do - whether I live on my own, I say "no, I have my pets!"