Am I the toxic one in this situation?

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Aspie78

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Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« on: May 01, 2017, 01:04:58 PM »
Hello everyone

I need an opinion or different perspective on my current situation to help me try and understand what's happening.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

My best friend exhibits NPD/BPD traits but not enough to make me think I'm dealing with a fully disordered individual.
In the past they've blocked me from Facebook and Whatsapp (didn't block my phone number though) in the middle of a conversation that didn't even feel like an arguement, ignored me for a year, unfriended me after incorrectly assuming something I posted was about them but didn't block me even after I sent a few messages saying I assume there's something else going on and that I'm always here for them regardless, and currently isn't speaking to me after I told a joke that upset them. More on this below.

Now, when thing's are fine it's all great. We talk everyday, they show me empathy and encouragement, and are happy to talk to me about my interests. The only way the friendship feels one sided is that I start about 90% of the conversations, but I don't feel like I'm being used for "supply". It feels more like dealing with someone who has a hard time letting people in and as a result is, perhaps, a little less reliant or used to people being around.

So the current situation.
I'm male, my friend is female, she's single, I'm not, but the friendship is entirely platonic. She recently got a new job in a different department and her old manager said that they doubted her capabilities in performing the new role and had arranged a meeting with the new manager to make them aware of her 'failings'. On the day of the meeting I sent her a picture I'd stumbled across on the internet that indicated that our star signs meant we'd make a good couple. I don't believe in that stuff and found it funny, I sent it with the intention of making her laugh to ease the stress of the day. I also sent her an encouraging message too.

Instead the reaction was her telling me that when friends mention couple stuff that she feels like distancing herself. I apologised, explained it was intended as nothing more than a joke, and assumed it was dealt with.
But then she distanced herself. I'm not blocked but messages are read and not responded to. With the exception of when I myself got a promotion, and not wanting to be petty, told her, the response was simply "congrats" and nothing more. I asked what was going on between us and was informed again that they don't react well to friends mentioning couple stuff and as a result they distance themselves.

Fast forward another week and I have to deal with her at work, I have to return some equipment and she's the one to return it to.
I message her asking if it's going to be a problem, she responds in a positive manner but also in a way that indicates she doesn't realise or forgotten we've barely spoken for a fortnight. This got my back up a bit and I childishly ask if I'm allowed to talk to her or if we just act like we've never met. She said she didn't understand and would never be rude to me. This angered me even more and I accused her of giving me the silent treatment. Her response "It's not silent treatment. I'm not intending to hurt you. I'm sorry if you see it different but it's just how I am. It takes a lot for me to trust someone". Seems like a bit of an NPD retort to me, deflects it back to me.

Not long before I sent the joking picture she'd jokingly asked if I'd sent her roses she'd received anonymously on Valentines day. Later on that evening I messaged her saying I wasn't implying that she was trying to hurt me, I was just saying how it felt as there'd been little discussion about her need for a time out, it's duration, whether she'd reach out when ready etc (you know, the stuff that makes the difference between a time out and silent treatment). I also explained that as she'd joked about the roses it was a bit much to expect me to realise that jokes like that were off the table. Her response was "You don't understand me, and I don't understand you". I could feel myself getting angry again so said I think it's best if we try talking another day.

I took a few days and then calmly explained what I had meant. Read but no response. I haven't said anything to her since.

Soooooooo, to the part in the subject.
I have Aspergers. It's a known aspie trait to be defensive when apologising and I recently read an article about apologies that made me realise that while I had been trying to apologise all I'd really been doing was defending and justifying my choice. I was essentially saying I'm sorry but here's why I did it, which isn't a genuine apology. And I tend to get a bit crazy when I upset someone I care about, I panic and rush and don't let things settle. I inadvertently make everything about healing my pain and don't allow the other person to deal with theirs.

And then I got thinking about boundaries and how you're not obligated to tell the other person you're enforcing one, you let them behave how they are going to, you just refuse to take part. That made me wonder if she's enforcing a boundary rather than ignoring me/giving me the silent treatment.

And that got me wondering if I'm the toxic boundary crossing person here. I know she doesn't handle conflict well, seemingly preferring to avoid it and let it all blow over. What if that's what she's doing here and I'm just trampling all over her boundaries in my attempts to fix things? Every time I attempted contact it brought the perceived conflict back to mind for her.

Be blunt, am I the toxic one?
I'm glad that I'm able to ask myself questions like this though, because it means I can work on it :)

Thanks to anyone to actually has the guts/time to wade through that monster post  :thumbup:

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mimzy

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2017, 12:26:30 AM »
The woman you describe sounds a little like my former "best friend". She'd go through periods where she wouldn't talk to me because I'd offended her... the "offense" would be basically be the result of being in a relationship... people are bound to step on each other's toes.  Mature and healthier people, I've found, speak up when someone does something that makes them feel uncomfortable and then move on. People who are more insecure keep score and use that as ammunition to keep the upper hand in the relationship. I was attracted to relationships like these because of how familiar it was to the relationship I had with my mom. (Not saying this is your scenerio, just sharing mine.) When I got into therapy regarding my mom, I recognized how bad this relationship with this woman was for myself esteem and broke it off with her. Now silent treatments are deal breakers for me and it's very liberating. Whatever happens in your relationship with this person, I hope you are at peace.











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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2017, 12:46:19 PM »
Hi mimzy

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm doing ok, I've got other friends and plenty going on in my life at the moment so her absence isn't having a big impact. I'm just confused regarding what she hopes this will achieve, I mean if I'd upset her that much or she thought I wanted more than friendship then surely she'd block me and have done with it? But then again she's not ignoring me 100% either, today's the first day in her new job so I wished her good luck earlier and she replied with "Thanks".

I'll just let her get on with it, and if it goes on for a while I'm happy to just walk away. All you really achieve when you ignore someone is teaching them how to live without you  :)

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kazzak

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2017, 01:02:12 PM »
Hi Aspie78, you are doing well with reaching out and your insight.

It feels a little bit like gaslighting to me. See here: http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/gaslighting

While your behavior may not be perfect, I didn't read anything disturbing to me. It seems to me that her response to you is disproportionate to the circumstances. I'm not sure why that is.

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2017, 01:41:02 PM »
Hi Kazzak,

Thank you. I do take a bit of pride from the fact I'm able to question myself. To me it means I'm not beyond help, is that odd?
And yes, I'm the first to admit my behaviour isn't beyond reproach. I see no point in denying my mistakes, it's part of how we learn and grow after all.

Can I just ask what makes you lean towards gaslighting? I was under the impression that it was behaviour designed to make you doubt your own perception and in a more aggressive manner rather than passive. For example, actually telling you you're wrong rather than hoping you'll doubt yourself.

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kazzak

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2017, 02:05:51 PM »
It's healthy. That may be the odd part in our world. Not everyone, and I guess very few, do have that awareness. You do have that self awareness. I guess that's odd because you have Aspergers and nonAspergers people rarely get that. :)

The core triggering issue I perceived from your explanation was that your friend was turned off by you sending the image of your two astrological signs. I'm also a guy. And I've had non sexual relationship with women. I've even shared a home with one for more than a year. While your message to her might not have been appropriate, her response also isn't based on the value of your relationship.  I lean towards gaslighting because the dynamic is that you've done something wrong. That there is something wrong with you. Now, you may be open to accepting that criticism - it doesn't seem valid in my opinion because her response to you is not healthy that values your relationship. You are respecting her boundaries, so in my experience the intimacy (nonsexual) returns in a healthy relationship. In this case, the blame and responsibility only seems pointed at you after the rupture of the relationship. All relationships go through rupture and repair. She's not allowing that repair to occur and pointing the finger solely at you for something relatively minor. Just my view. I'm not even sure if your friemd is PD. But it doesn't sound healthy - although the foundation of a healthy relationship seems to be there based on your description. Just my two cents. It may be a good opportunity to make new friends, respect your friends boundaries and hope she comes around. You can't control her response. PD or not, we all learn that here. But you are not toxic - based on what's described. Far from that, imo.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 02:08:17 PM by kazzak »

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carrots

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2017, 04:26:36 PM »
'Her response "It's not silent treatment. I'm not intending to hurt you. I'm sorry if you see it different but it's just how I am. It takes a lot for me to trust someone".'
This response of hers makes me wonder about traumatisation in her case. I could be way off with this suggestion. But if she has been traumatised in the past, then these seemingly small things you do/say could be triggering her. That doesn't mean that you are to blame, but she is setting you a little limit there and also pointing out what might be best to avoid in future, even if you think she's mentioned "couple stuff" to you, so it doesn't make sense. That's one of the problems with complex trauma: it doesn't always make sense even to ourselves far less somebody else. If you value her friendship as you say, I'd give her some more time to adjust in her mind and emotions, and maybe let slide with the explanations.

When I try and discuss problems and misunderstandings in friendships with people IRL who are also traumatised (I am too), we usually get ourselves all tied up in knots, triggering and re-triggering each other. With one friend I've decided all by myself to not contact for a while. We only contact by phone and email anyway, usually. It could be that when both of us have progressed a while, we won't be so triggering to each other.

Hope some of this helps, if she is in fact traumatised. It could well be, a lot of us have traits a bit like NPD/BPD but not enough to count as the actual diagnosis. One of the differences being that traumatised people without NPD/BPD are often very self-critical. With time and healing that can become self-aware. Your friend sounds somewhat self-aware anyway.

I'm really impressed that you're asking "Who's toxic here?". That sounds really brave to me, because we all could've answered that you're the toxic one, which would feel hurtful, I imagine. Even if it gave you something to work on.

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2017, 09:01:47 PM »
It's healthy. That may be the odd part in our world. Not everyone, and I guess very few, do have that awareness. You do have that self awareness. I guess that's odd because you have Aspergers and nonAspergers people rarely get that. :)

I guess I'm just special  :P

I lean towards gaslighting because the dynamic is that you've done something wrong. That there is something wrong with you. Now, you may be open to accepting that criticism - it doesn't seem valid in my opinion because her response to you is not healthy that values your relationship.

I'm willing to accept that I did something wrong, but I am unwilling to accept that that mistake makes ME wrong. The error doesn't define me.

I'm not even sure if your friend is PD. But it doesn't sound healthy - although the foundation of a healthy relationship seems to be there based on your description.

I feel the same. She exhibits traits (as do we all at times) but then other times says or does things that are contrary to a PD. For example, after unfriending me in September she apologised when we reconnected. This was completely unprompted and unexpected, she said she was a horrible person in a horrible place and that I didn't deserve it.

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 09:45:17 PM »
Hi carrots. Thank you for your kind words and support!

'Her response "It's not silent treatment. I'm not intending to hurt you. I'm sorry if you see it different but it's just how I am. It takes a lot for me to trust someone".'
This response of hers makes me wonder about traumatisation in her case. I could be way off with this suggestion. But if she has been traumatised in the past, then these seemingly small things you do/say could be triggering her. That doesn't mean that you are to blame, but she is setting you a little limit there and also pointing out what might be best to avoid in future, even if you think she's mentioned "couple stuff" to you, so it doesn't make sense. That's one of the problems with complex trauma: it doesn't always make sense even to ourselves far less somebody else.

I'd never thought about it that way.
I know a lot of stuff has happened to her in the past but the flip side of discovering about PDs is it makes you doubt if all of it is true  :(

If you value her friendship as you say, I'd give her some more time to adjust in her mind and emotions, and maybe let slide with the explanations.

Definitely. I am done with the explaining. I've offered an apology accepting responsibility for my choice and expressing regret of the outcome of said choice without adding excuses or justification. I also apologised for my poor previous apology attempts. I don't feel the need to explain any more.

Hope some of this helps, if she is in fact traumatised. It could well be, a lot of us have traits a bit like NPD/BPD but not enough to count as the actual diagnosis. One of the differences being that traumatised people without NPD/BPD are often very self-critical. With time and healing that can become self-aware. Your friend sounds somewhat self-aware anyway.

She is very self critical and has very low self belief. She puts herself down a lot, and has trouble accepting compliments.
She does also exhibit a certain amount of self awareness, in the past she's said she knows she's hurt me and others.

I'm really impressed that you're asking "Who's toxic here?". That sounds really brave to me, because we all could've answered that you're the toxic one, which would feel hurtful, I imagine. Even if it gave you something to work on.

Thank you!

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2017, 08:25:23 PM »
So I have an update.

This morning another friend posts on Facebook that their train is stuck in her part of the city as there is a woman on the rail bridge, assumingly looking likely to jump.
I just went cold, and had this horrible, horrible feeling that I couldn't shake. She has a history of depression and I've been told stories that she used to message an old manager that she was going to kill herself, not turn up for work, and not answer any calls or texts, leaving the manager worried sick (I wasn't there so can't say one way or another if this is true, and I'm not fond of gossip so felt no need to try to find out more).

So I messaged her to make sure she was ok. I said I know the chances of it being you are minute but I need to make sure.
This did not go down well. She replied saying she would never do anything like that, asked if I really knew her at all, and said she felt insulted.
I replied back explaining the sense of dread, and that I'd rather her be insulted than risk the alternative.

I got 2 replies to this.
First one said I shouldn't tell her about it and that she didn't understand why I would do that. Also thanked me for the great start to the day (I find it interesting she can tell me exactly what she doesn't like in this instance but regarding the original joke keeps me mostly in the dark).
Second one said she doesn't need stuff like this, we don't get each other and asks me to leave her alone.

Her reaction confused me a little. I mean couldn't she see it was an act of caring?
Now, the old me would've gone on the attack, said something stupid like "Yes, just go back to pretending I don't exist", and made it ten times worse. But instead, I went to sleep (just worked a night shift).

I didn't sleep well, only managed about 4 hours, but it was enough to calm me down.
So I replied agreeing that things aren't working between us currently, disagreed that we don't get each other, rather we're just not good for each other at the moment, and I suggested we go no contact for the rest of the month to give each other space and we'll reconnect next month.
She agreed.

So while I'm sad that I won't get to speak to her for another 4 weeks, I am taking this a big positive.
We've gone from silence punctuated with terse one word replies when ignoring wouldn't make her look good, to a clear defined period of healing with an agreed end date. This makes it so much easier for me as I now have parameters to operate within instead of guessing whether it's ok to reach out etc.
I'm also taking it to mean that she does actually value my friendship as she could've just blocked me and run away, as she has before, instead of asking me to leave her alone.

I'm feeling optimistic and quite proud of myself today :)

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clara

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2017, 12:26:08 PM »
I don't think either of you are toxic in this situation.  I wonder if she's reacting to cues, subtle or otherwise, from others around her that her relationship with you isn't quite "right."  I think this is especially problematic in work situations.  If someone is seen as friends with someone of the opposite sex, that friendship can often be questioned.  Some people will always think there's "something more" going on.  It may be unfair, but that's the way it is.  So she's probably backing off from the relationship due to a variety of reasons.  Just give her time and space.  If she decides she no longer wants to be friends, then respect her decision and let it go.  It benefits you nothing to hang on to something that's not there.  Her dealing with the situation may not be ideal, and may be hurtful, but possibly she doesn't really know what to do or how to go about it.  This might be as awkward for her as it is for you.   

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Joan

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2017, 01:42:38 PM »
Hi Aspie78!

I just read the whole thread and wanted to share my $0,02.

I have very very little knowledge on Aspergers, so take my words as from somebody´s who is not taking this in consideration (cause I really dont know how much it may affect a friendship).

What stuck me right away was your statement that you are male, she is female and the friendship is platonic. The need to say that it is platonic made me wonder if it really is (no offense, I guess Im just reading too much into it).

Second thing, I believe you are putting way too much energy into this person. Is your wife aware of this? How does she feel about it? I mean, sleepless nights, all the worry about your friend´s well-being, jokes about being a couple, etc... What do you expect from this friendship?

I dont think you are toxic, but I find your behaviour similar to a person who is involved romantically. Maybe she just doesnt feel confortable with that. Im not excusing her behaviour, the silent treatment is odd, coming back as if nothing happened is odd too.

From what I understood, you are coworkers. I´d just back off and keep the conversation to a minimum and only regarding work-related issues. I´d be pleasant, polite and respectful, but keep some distance. You have your family and plenty of friends, so Id just focus on them.

Hope I helped somehow. Sorry if I didnt explain myself properly, English is not my native language. Wish you luck!

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2017, 08:36:15 PM »
I don't think either of you are toxic in this situation.  I wonder if she's reacting to cues, subtle or otherwise, from others around her that her relationship with you isn't quite "right."  I think this is especially problematic in work situations.  If someone is seen as friends with someone of the opposite sex, that friendship can often be questioned.  Some people will always think there's "something more" going on.  It may be unfair, but that's the way it is.  So she's probably backing off from the relationship due to a variety of reasons.  Just give her time and space.  If she decides she no longer wants to be friends, then respect her decision and let it go.  It benefits you nothing to hang on to something that's not there.  Her dealing with the situation may not be ideal, and may be hurtful, but possibly she doesn't really know what to do or how to go about it.  This might be as awkward for her as it is for you.

Hi Clara

Thanks for taking the time to write :)

I'm not sure that that'd be the case in this situation. I can totally see the point you're making, but people don't see us together at work as we don't work in the same parts of the building. We did briefly but not anymore, also she works for the company the building belongs to, whereas I work for an IT provider for that company so we rarely have professional interactions (even less likely now with both our new roles). We've been friends for 3 years so I imagine if rumours or gossip were going to surface they would've done so long before now.

But yes, we've agreed to take a time out from each other for at least the remainder of the month, and I'm prepared to let her go if that's what she wants, no point chasing someone who doesn't want to stay.

Your point about it being awkward for her has made me think of something I'd not considered before.
Is it possible that she's interested in more than friendship and the fact I said I was joking has hurt her feelings?
Thinking back there are things she's said that make a bit more sense when viewed in that light.
For example:
Her new job, she had the option to relocate to another city but said she wouldn't because it would mean leaving me.
A while ago we were planning a day trip to national park. She suggested we book a hotel so we could see the sunrise/sunset (trip never happened after all).
Asking about the roses, did she hope they were from me?
Telling me things like I'm the only constant in her life that makes her feel good about herself and that I'm her favourite company.

The Aspergers means I don't pick up on subtle hints like this, they just go right over my head. When I met my GF there was another woman interested in me at the same time and I had absolutely no idea, I only found that out years later!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 09:36:15 PM by Aspie78 »

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 09:20:24 PM »
Hi Joan

Thanks for the $0.02. It all adds up :)

I have very very little knowledge on Aspergers, so take my words as from somebody´s who is not taking this in consideration (cause I really dont know how much it may affect a friendship).

Aspergers and friendships......where to start?  ;D
To keep it simple and short, we take our friendships very seriously. Our friends mean the world to us as we simply don't connect to that many people. Aspergers is sometimes described as wrong planet syndrome, meaning that we feel out of place all the time and like we're on an alien planet where nothing makes sense. Finding someone who everything sort of clicks in to place with and makes you feel like you belong is like winning the lottery.

What stuck me right away was your statement that you are male, she is female and the friendship is platonic. The need to say that it is platonic made me wonder if it really is (no offense, I guess Im just reading too much into it).

I used platonic merely to paint as clear a picture as possible on here. To show there'd been no romance or signals of interest etc
I wouldn't introduce her IRL as my platonic friend :)

Second thing, I believe you are putting way too much energy into this person. Is your wife aware of this? How does she feel about it? I mean, sleepless nights, all the worry about your friend´s well-being, jokes about being a couple, etc... What do you expect from this friendship?

I believe you're right about the energy, with Aspergers we have a tendency to fixate on things. If something raises a lot of questions for us and we can't get the answers to those questions it can lead to unpleasant 'side effects' like ruminating or bad sleep patterns. In this case workmen digging up the road outside didn't help either.

My GF is aware of the friendship. She's not overly keen on my friend because of the hurt she's caused me in the past, but she's apologised to me for it and I've explained that to my GF.

What do I expect? I just want a friend, someone who I can trust, someone who doesn't take me for granted etc.

I don't think you are toxic, but I find your behaviour similar to a person who is involved romantically. Maybe she just doesn't feel comfortable with that. I'm not excusing her behaviour, the silent treatment is odd, coming back as if nothing happened is odd too.

I can see why my behaviour could be seen that way. I just find it confusing why she wouldn't say anything though, surely if you felt someone was romantically interested and you didn't feel the same you'd make it clear? Something Clara said above made me think and I've put more in my reply to her.

From what I understood, you are coworkers. I´d just back off and keep the conversation to a minimum and only regarding work-related issues. I´d be pleasant, polite and respectful, but keep some distance. You have your family and plenty of friends, so Id just focus on them.

That is exactly what I'm planning to do, concentrate on myself and the people I do have around.

Hope I helped somehow. Sorry if I didnt explain myself properly, English is not my native language. Wish you luck!

Came across completely clearly to me, you have no worries in that department :)

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Joan

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 10:31:16 PM »
Hi again, Aspie78!

First of all, thanks for explaing how Asperger´s relates to friendships. I had no idea at all! One of our TV "personalities" mentioned that he has Asperger´s some years ago, but didnt explain much about it. I was curious and researched a bit, but that was all.

I hope you didnt take ofense when I said imho you are putting too much energy on her. I was consumed (and I mean it) by my uPD relatives and SO. People gave me that advice and it was extremely helpful to me.

Given what you said about Asperger´s and friendships, Im thinking that your friend may have feelings for you or may think you have for her. I believe she is interpreting your actions in the wrong way. (I read your answer to Clara).

I guess I made a lot of wrong assumptions, but Id still stick to my conclusion: keep some distance. I´d just see how things go from there.

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2017, 03:55:12 AM »
Hi again Joan!  :)

You're welcome.
No offense taken at all! I think that's good advice and certainly something to look out for.

Distance, taking some time for me, and seeing how things go with no expectations is exactly my plan  :)

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Geko

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 05:27:20 AM »
Hello Aspie, I have knowledge of Aspergers and I'm inclined to agree with Joan. You are putting too much time an effort into the relationship and I too wondered about your GF when reading and I'd be very hurt if I thought my DH was putting that much effort into another female. My DH has had a lot of female friends over the years but there is distance with them. Socialising with work colleagues, the odd phone call to pass a message or make an arrangement, an odd joke now and again in passing. Occasional chats and banter at work when time permits etc. Nothing intense and nothing that happens on a regular basis. 

Whilst your Aspergers will make you unaware of social norms, you also know that you like direct answers. Personally I think this situation needs strict boundaries so that there are no mixed messages on your part; I feel that you are both perhaps giving mixed messages. Keep things at a distance, never offer any information that can be construed as anything other than it is; she is a work colleague after all. Smile, say hello, ask her how she is but no personal stuff.

Some people can get away with certain comments as you've probably seen at work, these people are usually clever with words and are comfortable with the social norms. Your social norms are not so finely tuned so I'd tend to err on the side of caution.

Making friends for you is hard, but just keep at it. Smile, say hello and chat about general stuff or if you have an interest in something chat about that (but not for too long, keep it brief). You might find there's someone else at work with similar interests.

Take good care and try to maintain some distance.

But still, like dust, I'll rise.  (Maya Angelou)

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Adrienne25

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2017, 08:34:03 PM »
Frankly, I think you crossed the platonic line. She's single and you are not. It's hard to hold the friend line when  mixed signals are given to her. The couple's star sign thing, the reference to roses.. she gets the message you want more and she's putting the breaks on. Read up and study about boundaries and if you decide to send something or make a comment think hard about how she would act or react. Know that a girl guy friendship can happen, but should have boundaries, for example, you would not make a comment to her  with your significant other by, would you? No. It would be confusing and out of line. I respect  you for doing such a thorough examination of what you're going thru. Give it time, perhaps you can say to her "look, sometimes I say things that are out of line. I value our friendship and want to keep it smooth. If I'm ever acting in a way you don't like, tell me"

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Aspie78

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2017, 02:47:11 PM »
Frankly, I think you crossed the platonic line. She's single and you are not. It's hard to hold the friend line when  mixed signals are given to her. The couple's star sign thing, the reference to roses..

Hi Adrienne25

I just wanted to clarify that the rose reference was one she made, not me. Your post comes across like you may think I actually bought them or that it was me that initially brought them up. It wasn't, and that's why her reaction confused me so much. The fact she joked first about 'couple stuff' doesn't exactly make it clear that she considers that a line.

And I'll concede that jokes of this nature are unusual in platonic friendships, however, they're not unheard of, BUT it does depend on the friendship. For example, I have another close female friend I also met through work. She and my GF have met and become good friends too, we buy each other Christmas and birthday presents (for families too), and there was even talk of me walking her down the aisle when she gets married later in the year. In the past, she's joked about she and I running away together, I have also, my GF has too, even her fiance has since arriving on the scene, and all in front of each other. Now, people are probably thinking we're a bunch of weirdos (and they'd be right  ;D ), but the point I'm making is that as it's something we've all joked about at some stage it'd be odd for one of us to suddenly take offense at humour that we ourselves have taken part in.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't come across as me getting defensive as that's really not the case. I'm just saying this isn't 100% on me.

But, like I said we're currently having a break and I'm concentrating on me. I've been reading a lot and even managed to get out and meet some new people over the weekend. It was as uncomfortable as heck for me, but I did it anyway  :)

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kazzak

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Re: Am I the toxic one in this situation?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2017, 02:59:05 PM »
Aspie78, I've heard those jokes with my female friends also. Its ok, and I don't see anything wrong with it. I can remember one instance when a friend was having difficulty with a relationship, and said "why don't you just move to xyz and we'll get married". I responded, maybe if she moved where I lived. We both understood it was being said in a joking manner, because we had an intimate relationship. that did not include sex/marriage/etc.

Great job on reaching out to find new relationships. It's not easy, but part of the process is finding our way. You can't do that without trying. Congrats!!