Violated? Help me out pls

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biggerfish

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 09:27:31 AM »
Sandpiper -- I soaked up your story about your sister.  It's filled with good insights and emotional intelligence. And I like your advice at the end -- to sit on it a few days.

I used to think that if I sat on anything, my anger and resentment would grow. I've learned in the last few years that it isn't true. It's a lie I learned in the seventies during the "express all your feelings" movement. Rather, I can gain perspective by sitting on something, but it does require a lot of draining creative thought.

Ultimately, the slow "draining, creative thought" method brings with it self-respect.

So, SpringButterfly, my advice is this: if you, too, think that sitting on it will escalate your anger, that belief might be unfounded. Instead, you can "work it back down," "wait with patience," "trust yourself," and you will know when the time is right and you will know what to say. And after you do it, you will have your self-respect. Oh, and it never hurts to be reminded, so here goes: SpringButterfly -- you have WISDOM!

I filter (as best I can lol) all my choices now through my self-respect.

Sandpiper -- have you started working on a book yet? I'll buy it.

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biggerfish

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 09:29:24 AM »
Just a random thought, in case it helps. A family member has an electronic doorknob that allows you to change the code whenever you like. Something like that would allow you to set a guest code for pet sitting purposes, and then reset to your private code when you dont need anyone to come by.
I've never heard of this before. This is so cool. Many solutions arise from technology, as we all uniquely know here on OOTF lol.

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2017, 10:50:40 AM »
You guys, love this place!

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would love to be one of these relaxed cruisey chilled out people that does not give a damn about the random mustard intruders
spit my morning coffee over this comment! Surely needed that today!

Sandpiper, I'm really sorry to hear all that happened with your sister and the trauma from the past. Honestly I can see why you list it that day with unannounced visitors when you had made repeated requests that were barreled over.

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Is this a hot button from your past that's going to keep triggering you, and if so, how are you going to defuse it?
^^ this. Yes. Years ago both uPDm and enF were very intrusive, to an extreme, storing stuff in my basement and letting themselves in at will whether I was home or not. I allowed it but was sorry, so sorry that I had. That lead to entitlement and further intrusion such as constant drop ins every time I was home, if I didn't answer the phone when I was home I got chastised because they could see I was home but hadn't answered the phone. So my fear is one thing leads to another and experience is that entitled behavior escalates.

No I'm not one of those people that love unannounced visitors at my doorstep for multiple valid reasons - besides the above - related to condition of my home and my person since I'm not always guest ready and prefer to be semi presentable. However, give me a 5 minute heads up and I'm excited for last minute visitors. Thanks for helping me sort this out.

So to restore my sanctuary and help me feel safe again we did install a simple DIY alarm system. If someone enters we will be alerted and on site alarm will sound. If we need to take further action we will see.

Yes I will sit on it for another few days before I decide what to say to B and how to say it.

There are separate but related issues here.

One is restoring my sanctuary which I have done. His actions revealed a hole in my boundaries and self protection which are now plugged.

Two is the conversation with B, how to approach it and what to say. Do I need to say anything at all since I've solved my own problem? He will need to know for pet sitting there is an alarm. No one else will be notififed at this time. Yes his actions are tied to the changes I've made to my home so if asked I will confirm that is the case and he will need to deal with his feelings regarding the outcome of his taking liberties. He broke my trust but it was the garage and not my home, it was his mustard, and I'm sure he wouldn't come in the house without me knowing. However had I gone in his garage to borrow some tools and told him days later I pretty sure I'd catch hell for it. That makes me angry.

Debating to just lead with letting him know the changes at my house and not mention the mustard intrusion unless asked. Or to lead with the mustard instrusion and into the changes that resulted. I'm leaning more towards the first option and just letting him know at the time pet sitting is needed there is an alarm.

Since the locks aren't changed I don't need to say anything to anyone unless I need them to use the key for my convenience. That means there is the chance someone can set off the alarm since no one knows it's there and that will let us know we need to take further action and change locks.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth,Gentle Boundaries,Emotional Healing blog

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all4peace

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 11:16:35 AM »
SB, excellent advice on this page! I love Fiasco's idea. Sandpiper, your insight is incredible, especially in the ways you and your S are triggered uniquely. It is deeply unsettling when we state boundaries and the other person refuses to respect them. That in itself becomes the bigger problem.

SB, I live next door to PD ILs. Property and boundary violations have been consistent for 20+ years. uNBPDmil used to simply appear in my living room with my toddlers, silent and unannounced, just waiting for me to return from the next room. All ILs used our property as if it was theirs, without word, literally never returning it without us hunting it down. I also wanted to stage "sex on the dining room table" to horrify them into not walking into our house whenever they felt like it. And even when I clearly stated I needed them to please stop coming unannounced, they still went into our garage at will. And still "announced" but didn't wait for a response. I changed that to "Please do not come uninvited."

I totally understand the sense of violation. I used to tell DH "I will be fine and able to cope as long as I KNOW they are not on my property." And then FIL again recently violated that without warning. It felt like a physical attack and the most upsetting part was knowing that his intrusion had totally reset the button on my sense of protected security, and that I would go back to being hypervigilant and feeling unsafe.

So I think it is great that you took positive physical action to feel safe in your home. Our homes NEED to be sanctuaries. For many of us, growing up our homes weren't safe and we very much need our adulthood homes to be safe, inviolable.

I think it might be wise to bring this up with your brother. Do you have a basically solid relationship with him? I think that with nons, it's healthy to give others a chance to hear our boundaries and respond appropriately. When I first set the boundary for ILs, I framed it as something I would ask of anyone, our friends, other neighbors, my own family if they had lived nextdoor. My point was to make it very non-personal, just something that was my own preference.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 12:16:18 PM by all4peace »

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Fightsong

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 12:01:47 PM »
Hi SB, -  I have some thoughts. Mainly that you seem to be engaging in the kind of  thinking processes that I sometimes get into  when  I am Feeling Foggy. I have a wonderful friend who is the most straight forward of people whose responses I often look to as a sort of normal-o-meter. I know for sure friend would just have said right there - Erm, what?  Its kinda weird you let yourself in dude,  please don't do that again ( and yeah possibly something tagged on like - my pants were drying / the sex toys were out - whatever). And would not expect there to be weirdness  ongoing thereafter.

Having said that there's an alarm bell that also tells me - I think most people would have sent that ' is it okay if i pop by' text as well - and B didn't. Occasionally we all violate other peoples boundaries without knowing, the crucial thing is the a) being able to tell  someone - hey  my boundary!  and then b) they responding in a healthy way -  Gee , So sorry I can see that now,  can we please 'rupture and repair'. So it isnt broken forever.

But PD parents don't teach us how to healthily 'rupture and repair' do they ?

I don't know how close you are to B.  But if you want him still to  sort out the pets he will need a key still right.  There's obviously something back ( or not so back) of your mind about your parents / the intrusions / they have keys. You are feeling all that rise up again. They DO NOT need a new key. But hopefully bro might understand why this 'triggered' some old hurts and  why you needed to respond with  new locks etc ( if you do that).

Your home, I think, will and can feel safe again. With some self care and compassion; and  yes maybe you will you need to change the locks / get an alarm, erect a 50 foot high electric barbed wire fence.  But maybe it just ISNT about that.

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2017, 02:29:55 PM »
A4P I so get it with the IL next door and often think back to when it was similar for us. Yes B and I have a solid relationship and are such good friends so I'm not too worried how it'll turn outinthe long run. It may follow the typical volley of thoughts and feelings until we settle.

FightSong, yes that would have been so ideal to speak immediately. The opportunity presented itself and lately I speak up right away with boundaries. On the one hand I was stunned silent but on the other hand I totally understood the circumstance at the time. In the moment I tried to quickly formulate how I felt but so much was going on at the time. After the party and excitement of the day when I had a few moments to contemplate the events of the day my brain just sort of went  :uuuuhhh:  like something popped in my head.

Rupture and repair, I like that and is the likely outcome based on past rupture and repair with B.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth,Gentle Boundaries,Emotional Healing blog

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Adria

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2017, 02:33:25 PM »
Springbutterfly,

I so get the old family PD parent trigger thing.  I lived three houses down from my parents.  My dad would go in my house and snoop around when I wasn't home. Creeped me out.  I would smell his cologne upon walking in the door and see his footprints on the carpet, and he would deny it.  Like you, he would call because he knew what time I came home, and if I didn't answer the phone, he would leave me ugly messages about not picking up the phone.  It was horrifying.  He would even stand outside my bathroom door until I was done taking my shower and I'd open the door to run to the bedroom and there he'd be.  I asked him numerous times to knock, and asked for my key back to no avail.  I also caught him looking in my windows one night.  Anyway, my point is, as the others have said because of these antics by your FOO, your Non brother could have very well set off that trigger and never intended to violate your space, but just plain wanted HIS mustard,  :yes: not giving any thought to crossing a boundary.

I have just gone through something like this with my daughter, and I was livid, wanted to set her straight and blast her to the moon, but dh told me to write it out and sit on it a couple days. Boy, I'm glad I did.  After three days, I no longer felt the urge to say anything, and let it go.  Shortly after that, she did something so amazing that if I would have said anything, I think it would have caused damage and I would have never gotten the sweet gestures I received from her.  I think maybe your brother is clueless to your trigger, and was just on a mission for dinner or whatever, thinking it wasn't a big deal. 

I think the steps you have taken to make your home feel safe again are great.  Maybe sit on it a couple more days.  You will know if there is a time to bring it up and say something or not.  With my daughter, I went down to visit her, and there was a window that opened for me to express a little how I felt and she, to some degree, acknowledged her part. We ended up laughing and all was well.  If brother is normally respectful, but still a guy with a task oriented brain, he probably just needed his mustard. :doh: Due to our PD upbringing, it can be hard for us to know what to do in certain instances wondering if we have a right to feel as we do. Sometimes, we have to pick our battles. ;)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 02:38:19 PM by Adria »

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sandpiper

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 06:55:37 PM »
 :bighug: :bighug: :yourock:
I love you guys too...and BiggerFish...maybe one day. I'm starting a creative writing course next year with that idea in mind.
SB - that is a brilliant move, the alarm system. That said, I have to share a story from a friend of mine who also set up an alarm to stop junkies & the well-meaning but boundaryless relatives turning up whenever they wanted. He installed a motion detector alarm & all was good for the first week. Monday morning he goes to work & is way out in the boonies doing a quote when the alarm goes off on his iphone. There is someone moving around the living room. So he cuts the meeting short & rushes home, grabs his cricket bat, and follows the little red motion detector dot on his iphone to where the intruder is pacing back and forth from one side of the house to the other. And he stares around, totally creeped out, because he can't see anyone moving. The iPhone however, along with his adrenalin charged spidey sense, is telling him that there's someone in the room & he's in imminent danger from the Invisible Intruder...so his freak out levels jump from high to Paranormal...do they have Harry Potter's cloak of invisiblity or is it some mutant from the X-men world or what?
The answer? His intruder was a bright red balloon, leftover from their baby's birthday the day before. Where we are in Oz it gets really hot, so in summer people just leave the security screens locked to allow airflow & often we'll leave fans on to keep the air circulating for pets etc when the wind drops during the day. The wind had picked up & because his house was open plan, it had blown the balloon all around the house which was why the App kept telling him there was someone moving into different zones.
So the moral of this tale is Beware of Red Balloons.
  :cool2:
Go out and do something this weekend that you love & which is going to make you feel happy and relaxed and help you get the adrenalin out of your system. You'll know when the adrenalin has subsided what you want to say & how you want to say it. You need your boundary but you need to build your relationship with your brother, too. I think you'll know instinctively how to do that, when the emotional charge has settled down a bit.
I just don't think he was thinking. He's a man, they don't think about stuff. I'm picturing Homer Siimpson doing the 'mmmm, hot dog, need mustard' drooool face & I'd say that's the level of consciousness he was operating on during Operation Mustard Seizure. :)

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biggerfish

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2017, 08:06:27 PM »
Go out and do something this weekend that you love & which is going to make you feel happy and relaxed and help you get the adrenalin out of your system. You'll know when the adrenalin has subsided what you want to say & how you want to say it. 
:yeahthat:

I just excerpted this part to highlight, but I loved Sandpiper's whole post. Yes! I agree with working down the adrenaline first. I learned this technique from an anxiety support group. It really works!

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biggerfish

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2017, 08:16:16 PM »
I have a story about myself intruding into someone's house. A few years ago, I needed something from my SIL's house. My BIL was the one who answered the phone when I called to ask permission. He told me that nobody was home but that I could come  through the garage which wasn't locked.

So that's what I did. Then later that day, I got an email from my SIL, addressing me as "Ninja Biggerfish" and questioning, as politely as possible, why I had gone into the house. It was a subtle but obvious comment that she didn't like that I had gone into the house. Obviously, she had not asked her husband first if he knew anything about it.

I got my darling husband to call her and say "next time before you accuse, ask other family members first. Your husband approved the visit." I got over the subtle accusation, and I'm sure my SIL was embarrassed.

I've been thinking about the above story while reading this thread, and it occurs to me that we all have certain people that we come to expect will come and go from our home. The rest, however much we love them, are intruders if they don't ask.   

So it's really not personal. I don't think it was personal when my SIL questioned my being there. Rather, I'm thinking that our sense of safety in our homes is a very emotional thing, and is tied to expectations about who comes and goes.

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2017, 09:54:45 PM »
Thanks for the great suggestion and I have some weekend plans that will be working down the adrenaline. Feeling much lighter this afternoon and especially with you guys sharing the balloon story, the Ninja Biggerfish story, Operation Mustard Seizure.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth,Gentle Boundaries,Emotional Healing blog

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sandpiper

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2017, 01:16:08 AM »
:)
Biggerfish - I think we probably all have a story where we've been the ones that have trodden on the toes. It's just part of being human.
SB, I hope you have a nice relaxing weekend & that one day, some tech wizard out there invents an App that's the iphone equivalent of Harry Potter's map.
i.e. just one tap & it tells you that the set of footprints moving round your house belong to Colonel Mustard, in the garage, with the barbecue tongs.
 ;D

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2017, 09:05:12 AM »
Crack me up Sandpiper! There are actually diy security systems that include a camera that kicks on when an alarm or sensor is triggered and records short video you can view on your phone. So your idea isn't too far fetched! There's all sorts of cool stuff out there for not a lot of money and doesn't require subscription. We didn't get that one but I thought is was cool.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth,Gentle Boundaries,Emotional Healing blog

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sandpiper

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2017, 09:00:32 PM »
:) That is awesome. I love how tech just gets smarter and smarter and there's so many new developments.

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Seven

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Re: Violated? Help me out pls
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2017, 10:12:33 PM »
We have an Arlo.  Holds up to 5 cameras without having to pay for a subscription.