I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?

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all4peace

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2017, 10:47:22 AM »
 :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: on the in-your-bed stuff. The most honest thing she has said is "I need you to need me." This is ALL about her. This is not how normal mothers behave.

Turn it all around. Would you EVER behave this way to your daughters? I'm guessing you're not sleeping in THEIR bed while their own father is gone, but your mother is in your bed? Yeah, that is all about her needs and it is way, way, way overboard.

She is not on this forum.
She does not know you have a therapist.
She is simply trying to figure out why you are changing, and so fast.

It's totally ok to give her a reason if you want to. I don't think it would matter, since this is all about her needs and not yours, but if you think it would help you to try to reassure her, you could say, "Mom, life is really full right now with a job and raising kids and DH traveling, and I really need to focus on my family right now. I love you, and here are the ways and times we can spend time together, but you are not going to track me on GPS, sleep in my bed, or walk into my house without notice. I love you, and I want us to have a relationship, but it will simply have to be different than the relationship we have had. If you cannot respect my wishes, then we will have to spend even less time together." Or something along those lines.

Yeah, the "flirty" crap is disturbing. It's designed to make the medicine go down more easily, or be deniable as joking. Blech, gag.  :barfy:

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practical

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2017, 11:38:24 AM »
Something just dawned on me, she is sleeping with you in your marital bed, right? Totally and utterly inappropriate! I have no idea whether in her mind she is replacing your DH, or is mommy again and you are 4 years old, it really doesn't matter. Your and DH's bed is there for you and your kids to jump into to wake you or serve you breakfast as a special surprise, for everybody else it is a no-go zone, actually your bedroom is a no-go zone.

As for the T, I agree with others, she doesn't know but is fishing. My M would ask innocently whether I had new friends, acquaintances and what their family background was and then she would pounce and blame them for making me separate from her, because they had issues with whatever. Anything to find somebody to blame rather than take responsibility.

The flirty thing, it sounds like she is trying to be the victim in the guise of an innocent little girl "Oh, just do me this itty bitty favor." while wanting to roll with a tank over your life. It is another form of gas lighting, of screwing with your mind and hoping she can sneak it by you. I think I would be so exasperated by now that I would tell her "If you mention the word GPS one more time, the conversation is over, you are leaving my house/I'm hanging up, and this also applies to any future conversations. If you then send Dad again, this will have further consequences regarding our contact." You need a concrete barrier here (and I mean it in the sense of the building material as well as something very definite).

And unfortunately I do agree with others, don't tell your Dad about truly personal things. I used to do this and F would promise me he would never tell M, but when she put him through the Spanish Inquisition he would, or he would let things slip by mistake. He is unfortunately part of the dysfunction, and while he doesn't make the scenes, he enables your M. The right thing for him to do with regard to coming to your house would have to tell your M where the road ends and refuse to do it (saying "No" doesn't involve any curse words or whatever has afraid of of saying), and for extra bonus points suggest she seek out professional help. But he did what was easiest for him, disturbing your evening and calm, knowing you would forgive him, and appeasing your M. In my experience, F's loyalty was with M while complaining bitterly about her and using me as a toxic garbage dump, but bottom line doing whatever was easiest for him and wouldn't get him on her bad side. He could always rely on me forgiving him, because he had painted himself as such a perfect victim of F.

If I haven't suggested it before, look at the book "Boundaries" by Townsend & Cloud http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=27228.0
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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all4peace

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2017, 12:14:13 PM »
Please see SonofThunder's post on this topic of boundaries. I believe this may be the "flooding" you are experiencing now: http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=66555.0;topicseen

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Frankie14

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2017, 12:28:38 PM »
I'm speechless at what you are going thru...your NM is sleeping in your bed, trying to GPS track you, showing up at your house unwelcome and uninvited and staying ALL DAY... :no:

No.

Using your going to a therapist against you, fishing for information about you, and you know she is torturing your Dad to gossip about you to gather more info from him about you...

I am so sorry for you, truly. 

There are always moments of lightbulb that come with every post I read on this forum, my lightbulb moment was reading your story and this tread and thinking, my God, I have never been so "happy" to have been the Ghost child, the Invisible child, neglected and literally mentally and physically ignored my entire life than when I read the enmeshment stories. 

My mother can't be bothered to call me once a month and if she does its just go gather information (gossip) for my Nsis so Nsis can make up stories about me, my kids, my husband to tell my en-father...and yes its a train wreck in a different way than what you are going thru; but my NPD is my Nsis, not a parent.  This has to be very confusing for you... and something I have no concrete advice for, but I can offer you my commiseration, I honestly cannot imagine what you are going thru.

Stay strong.

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blacksheep7

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2017, 12:51:12 PM »
Sorry that you have to go through this.  You were given good advice, no apology. The storming out at the restaurant, I know, my own mother pulled that on me once,  very childish.  We were at my sisters for New Years eve and I offended her, once again.  She went home by foot, 20 min. away, in snow.  She thought that we would run after her, we didn't.

As for the anxiety, as Practical said, she should get help with that, NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

I very much related to what VividI said, so true about the codependence.  I was enmeshed, no longer.








I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

"When people show you who they are, believe them."
 Maya Angelou

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all4peace

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2017, 02:13:04 PM »
I'm with frank.05. I'd take an ignoring N over an enmeshed one any day!  :stars:

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practical

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2017, 12:37:05 AM »
Dinah, this stuck with me since this morning
Quote
BPDm says she sleeps over here because I am scared to be alone, but I told her I am not scared, and we are fine. Regardless, a few days ago she came anyways. Just showed up with her pajamas.
When you look at it, it is all pure projection and about her and fits right in with the GPS, sending F over and her all possesiveness of you. She says you are scared, you have given no indication of being scared and also tell her you are not, actually you want the time to yourself to hang out with DD. But in her mind she has decided you are scared, this is now a fact for her, while the real world facts and what you say are irrelevant. She is the expert on you, she know how you feel, not you. In reality it is her who is scared about you being alone, but for her she has created a story where she is protecting you, she is the hero and a selfless mother who comes to the rescue of poor helpless Dinah.

This is all her drama, it is all in her head so to speak, and she tries to shift you around like a pawn on a chess board, where she has absolute control and you have none, and even worse are not allowed to have a free will.

My M totally gaslighted me into believing I was sickly. I truly believed her and even as an adult thought I was more susceptible to illness than other, healthy people. When I had kids of my own I realized they were ill as often as I used to be, but nobody made a drama out of it. I wasn't sickly after all (and my GP confirmed this when I finally had the stomach to ask him), it had all been about control "No, practical you cannot do this with your friends, you have to stay home with M, or you'll get ill".

Please meet any more of these attempts by your M to insert herself in your life, despite your express statements and wishes, with the strongest boundaries you can muster. Showing up at your door despite what you have said or announced gets her send back home with "M, I expressly said I'm fine. Thank you for your concern, please go home. Good night." and similar.

I know this is hard, because you don't want to hurt her, enabling her by letting her walk all over you is no kindness to her (or you and your kids), she has to deal with reality somehow someday. You have made so much progress already and I have no doubt you'll get there, you have the inner strength. :hug:
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2017, 01:55:58 AM »
You'll feel anxious and kind of crappy for a bit while you process everything that's going on - for me, it was a week of the non-stop thought, "My mother doesn't love me.  She sees me as a thing."

It literally made me feel sick to my stomach and like I was having some kind of weird out-of-body experience, but eventually, that thought sank in as *reality.*

I didn't love, her, either.  I didn't even like talking to her on the phone, let alone spending any time with her, listening to her anger, bitterness and anxiety.

It made it a LOT easier to put limits in place - like not telling her a damned thing about me, my life - and especially DH's travels for work.

She wouldn't insist on coming over - no, she'd have herself hospitalized for all the same old things that bothered her for years, expecting me to drop everything and sit by her bedside, day and night - like my "purpose" in life had gone away on business, so now SHE was my purpose!   :aaauuugh:

It didn't work - it only made me angrier and angrier - so I stayed right here, caring for our pets and holding down the fort. 

Your mother was on a massive fishing expedition - if she could get you to own up to having a T, she might be able to get that T's name and run interference for herself by winning your T over to her cause - or making up stories about how "somebody" or "everybody is saying" your T is the worst in the business; don't listen to anything he or she says.   :roll:

From now on STOP THE INFORMATION TRAIN - and blow up the tracks!   8-)

Tell her NOTHING other than you are fine, the kids are good, DH's job is going well - and mention *nothing* about traveling.  Your DH is simply, "at work."  (In Dallas, Boston, Kansas City and Miami, but she doesn't need to know it!  :bigwink:)

ANY information you give her will be exploited to her benefit, and she'll project her own anxiety onto you - like saying YOU are afraid of being alone.

No - SHE IS, and is GROSSLY abusing YOU, by demanding to sleep at yours - in your bed.   :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh:

That's toxic, unhealthy *smothering* - like Didi, she's saying YOU don't matter.  You serve your DH, and if he's not around, you serve HER - and she even takes his place in your bed!

I threw up a little in my mouth just typing that out...   :barfy:

In all seriousness, for this, I'd give her a 2-week Time Out - no calls, no texts - and if she or your dad show up, don't let them in and *call the cops* if they refuse to leave.

I wasn't kidding when I said you're going to really start having to crack the whip on boundaries.  She has NO idea where she ends and where you begin - just like Didi.

I had to be extremely hard-core with the boundaries and contacted her less and less, wouldn't visit ("I'm busy and can't get away, mom..."), and ignored all her threats by chuckling, "Now you're just being silly!"

Not suicide - but threats to come over here and see WHAT was going on (am I TEN!?), which were freaking laughable.  (The woman was in her late 70's, had severe osteoporosis and cataracts (among other things) and owned - I shit you not - a 1985 Trans Am.  She'd have to call chiropractor just to help her get IN the thing!)   :rofl:

Anything she threw at me, I knew I *had* to counter - she saw it as a game she was *going* to win.   :blink:

I saw it as my life, and I wanted it to be MINE!   :sunny:

So the stakes were definitely higher on my end - just like they are on yours.

This is YOUR LIFE.  As far as I know, you only get one.  Right now, your life is being run by a *dictator with no boundaries* - who calls your home HER castle, proverbially speaking.

That can't be allowed to continue - for your health, sanity, the sake of your DH and marriage - and the sake of your kids, who are watching grandma just walk all over you.

She's teaching them how to treat you in the future - do you like the lessons they're learning from her?

Well, it's time for them to STOP.

 :hug:

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practical

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2017, 08:41:33 AM »
This isn't meant as a reading assignment, I simply remember how much articles from the Glossary   helped me to get a better understanding what was going on in all its layers and complexity. I picked a few that might help you:

re your M's anxiety:
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/lack-of-object-constancy
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/fear-of-abandonment

as far as I can see it, she is putting you in two roles, and it doesn't matter that they seem contradictory, the role she needs you to play depends on her emotional need at that moment:
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/parentification
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/infantilization

others:
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/objectification
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/sense-of-entitlement
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/30/catastrophizing
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/normalizing
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/not-my-fault-syndrome
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/no-win-situations-and-lose-lose-scenarios
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/self-victimization
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/shame-shaming
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/thought-policing

I think this might fit your M as an overarching category:
http://outofthefog.website/other-articles/2015/12/12/acting-out

to help you:
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-3-cs-rule
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-51-rule
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/understand-my-stuffyour-stuff
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/use-the-clean-up-rule
http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/engulfment-enmeshment
http://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/work-on-yourself
http://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/intermittent-reinforcement
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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VividImagination

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Re: I need a little feedback--Should DD apologize to BPDm?
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2017, 09:46:20 AM »
Thread has reached 5 pages and is being locked for length. Please feel free to start a new thread.
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.