They Truly Don't Change

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insidetheradio

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They Truly Don't Change
« on: July 25, 2017, 11:31:09 PM »
Hey all,

Several years ago I used to post here and since then I have been creating a life for myself independent from disorder mother... and family because she trianglulated me from them.

Years after I moved and never told her where I went. She thought I would perish without her and be miserable.

But over the years I had created many good pictures, friends, and memories so one day I called her out of the blue. I told her the city I was in and she couldn't believe I was out of state. Then, I had sent her some pictures, none of which conveyed any personal information except that I was doing better off without her just like I told her would happen.

I knew she would try to say some negative things indirectly after she knew where I was. She told me about the weather where she still lives and how a flash flood killed nine people.

Thing is I previously just told her that we had flash floods here, so almost immediately as predicted she tried to suggest I wasn't safe here because of the flash flood she mentioned.

I brushed it off, but amazing how even though our fallout basically put her in isolation with no one to talk to that she still was intent with me being in jeopardy. That simply is what she wants if I won't be her stooge and punching bag for covert insults.

My friend died of cancer and when he passed I realized my mother isn't getting any younger, so I tried to make peace.

In a way I did make peace but it was clear that I was making peace with the same abusive, boring, and unprofitable family.

She used her voice tonality over the phone to silently speak covert messages and attempt to control the conversation.

I saw all this but it is draining having to go through so much caution in a simple conversation.

I guess I realized that not much is to gain from being in contact with them. They are black and white thinkers... talk to them on their terms or don't talk at all.

Well, I could clearly see she was the same person. I'm not interested in talking to her too much anymore. Maybe every year or every few years I'll check up on them, or, maybe not.

I went from limited contact to no contact and then back to limited contact... now I plan to go back no contact until i feel otherwise.

She also was jealous of me doing well. It is a creepy feeling when your own mother is salivating for your downfall.

So I realized, "who even wants that?" Not me...

She even sent a weird apology via email that very craftily minimized some of her horrific behavior by fessing up to minor things she did.

Contacting her again was on my terms, but my terms or not... not much good came from it.

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Gladiola23

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 12:02:56 AM »
Thanks for the reminder. It's good (?) to see your words and experience in writing. I've been no contact for a year and at points, especially around birthdays and holidays, wondered if it would be bad to send a note or give a call. But then I think of the way they make me feel, and I start feeling the dread. So, no. I'm good. I love how you used the word boring. Got me thinking, the same old tactics to gaslight, manipulate and put you in the FOG are quite boring. It would be much more interesting if something different happened. But alas, not in my case. Good for you for recognizing that.

Your comment about your mother salavating for your downfall also hit close to home. Before I came OOtF I didn't realize how jealous my mother was: Of me, of the relationships I had with other women, of my experiences, of the very inappropriate way my NPD father treated me (like another wife) and triangulated our relationship. My mother always "needed" me, but often she put me in a role that would make her look good, and make me serve her in some way. At times, literally. She had an informal catering company that I would often cook and serve her and her church friends. Looking back she would take on a job, buy the food, and then tell me what I needed to do. I didn't have a choice. This went on throughout middle school, hightschool, and I finally started to say no in college. She didn't like that at all. For the longest time I thought I was "helping", and I'd have done most anything to have my mother notice and appreciate me at that time, but she never did.

Anyway, I'm sorry it was so draining. I can only imagine.

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insidetheradio

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 05:14:14 AM »
When you started telling your mother no... seems like things got worse in her behavior. Same with me, saying no to her was like an act of war.

Of course, she would never have called it war. Instead the covert punishment and attacks would begin.

Anyway, yeah breaking no contact with them doesn't do anything imo. Like I was already "really really " bad because I quit talking to her...

I left the family and was looked down upon for that. So, after you contact them under those circumstances it's almost a guarantee that they won't treat you good or normally.

After all, you haven't been playing their game so they haven't been controlling you.

When I made contact she was so wanting an apology or a supplication petitioning her forgiveness for being out of contact. That is the emotional climate you'll likely experience from her if you talk again.

Even more so my mother has a way of strategically ignoring me in ways that get me off balance or that chip away at my self worth. So if your mother is anything like that keep in mind that if you contact them through a note that she can ignore it long enough to emotionally trouble you.

It just stinks making an effort to reconcile only to have them ignore you completely... or they will ignore most of what you say and that is frustrating.

It's you giving them more of your best that they give you more of their worse in exchange for (when you try to bury the hatchet and make peace).

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ICantThinkOfAName

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 02:15:40 PM »
"When I made contact she was so wanting an apology or a supplication petitioning her forgiveness for being out of contact. That is the emotional climate you'll likely experience from her if you talk again."
 :yeahthat:

I have been NC for 8 years and I don't intend to jump back into the pit.  Thank you for posting that reminder that they just want you to come back apologizing on your knees begging for forgiveness.  I've decided that the only way I will respond to her is if she actually acknowledges that she had a part of this in any way.  I haven't gotten it yet.  I've gotten, "I'm sorry you hate me."  And "You know your father is going to leave you out of the will."  And "You'd better watch your back." 

Yeah I don't ever expect an apology.  Let me rephrase that, a genuine apology.  She's incapable. 

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Danden

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 02:45:02 PM »
This is familiar to me too.  As I think back on my life, the problems started in earnest with my M when I went to grad school in a full scholarship.  I was leaving and didn't need her anymore, financially or otherwise.  That is when she started saying bad things about me to people and doing other things to sabotage my life.  About two years ago, I learned she had disinherited me without telling me.  I went to confront her about it and have a final good-bye of sorts.  I said to her "I have never been a good enough daughter for you"  By this I meant that, from her perspective, I have never been good enough.  I saw her face light up, her eyes wide with anticipation.  Perhaps she thought this was the beginning of an abject apology for the "very bad" person I am.  Perhaps she thought she would finally get a statement from me that she was right all along, that I am an awful person and an awful daughter, that she would get validation of her point of view.  But that is not even what I meant.  I agree, they truly don't change.

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Afterthefox

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 04:27:20 AM »
At a time when I am being encouraged to write to my nBPDf after 11 months of silent treatment, and it feels tempting to do so, it helps to read these messages.

I have heard through his assistant that my father complains that I never contact him, when in reality, it is he who has decided not to communicate.

On this basis, knowing that he has cast the blame onto me, and evidently lying to his assistant, I am certain that I would be met with either more silent treatment, or perhaps, worse, a chronic narcissist who expects me to slide immediately back into a subordinate status. I believe he would expect an apology - for being a victim of his silent treatment. That is unacceptable. I know now that I should protect myself against placing myself in contact with someone I know will be emotionally abusive.

Thank you for sharing your experiences - they were like red flags for me.

:)
"Muddy water is best cleared by leaving it alone." - Alan Watts

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Shockwave

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 07:24:57 PM »
Nope,  nobody changes unless they want to.  Most uPDs would rather face death than face the Five Fears of a Cluster B. One of those fears is admitting they were wrong in anything.  So they'll crazy make you to insanity thinking you're the one that has to make amends when you've done nothing wrong. 

My father supposedly told me the story of how he and my mother were actually having a civil conversation and my mother actually expressed regret at not having a good relationship with either one of her sons.  My father pointed out that since she treated both of us like dog $#!+, what did she expect? I'm actually quoting here.  Notice,  she still hasn't picked up the phone and apologized or try to make amends. She tries to fake it with others,  but they see right through her too.  I used to care a long time ago.  I don't anymore. 
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Dark Knight."
-- James Gordon, The Dark Knight

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all4peace

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 09:42:44 PM »
Nope,  nobody changes unless they want to.  Most uPDs would rather face death than face the Five Fears of a Cluster B. One of those fears is admitting they were wrong in anything.  So they'll crazy make you to insanity thinking you're the one that has to make amends when you've done nothing wrong. 
Shockwave, are there actually five fears, or are you speaking euphemistically?

insidetheradio, as sad as it is to have disordered parents, sometimes it helps to be reaffirmed in why we've chosen to have less contact in the first place.

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practical

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 10:37:14 PM »
I went NC three times with M, the two times I reestablished contact was because enF/uPDf kept asking me to do so. I think the key is that M never saw me for who I was and NC didn't change that, just like it didn't change her behavior in any deep sense. (M would try for some time to stay within boundaries, ultimately it always fell apart.)
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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Shockwave

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 06:32:46 AM »
Courtesy of shrink 4 men:
https://youtu.be/kPWwWQJYX5Y

Their video focuses on borderline personality disordered individuals but covers the cluster B spectrum pretty well. 
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Dark Knight."
-- James Gordon, The Dark Knight

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all4peace

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 10:38:46 AM »
Courtesy of shrink 4 men:
https://youtu.be/kPWwWQJYX5Y

Their video focuses on borderline personality disordered individuals but covers the cluster B spectrum pretty well.
Thank you :)

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daughterofbpd

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Re: They Truly Don't Change
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2017, 09:22:37 PM »
Courtesy of shrink 4 men:
https://youtu.be/kPWwWQJYX5Y

Their video focuses on borderline personality disordered individuals but covers the cluster B spectrum pretty well.
Thank you :)

And in case others are curious:

The Five Fears of a Cluster B Personality Disorder per Going Mental on Youtube
1. Fear of abandonment.
2. Fear of loss of control.
3. Fear of loss of resources.
4. Fear of feeling or appearing inferior or inadequate.
5. Fear of public exposure for what they are actually like.

That's interesting! I can see the fear of abandonment in my BPDm but I always wondered how fear of abandonment would lead her to put me down or some of the other things she did. Add in #2 and #4 and it all makes more sense now. Thanks.
How starved you must have been that my heart became a meal for your ego
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