BPDm says she is scared of me????

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2017, 09:31:26 PM »
Hi Dinah-Sore!

Love your Lauryn Hill quote.

My thoughts: 1-She's attempting to play you like a violin. 2-You are doing a great job of being assertive and not falling for it. Keep up the good work.

If you had snarled your words to her (rather than using the firm but neutral tone) and/or threw something at her and/or made actual threats against her well-being (as opposed to just disagreeing with her), THEN she might have a case for being afraid of you. As it stands, not so much. At all, really. She's just not accustomed to you speaking up for yourself, and it's throwing her off. Too bad.

Her choice of words is fascinating. Our PD people's language really demonstrates their immaturity. Who, over the age of 15, uses words like "mean," and "don't you love me anymore?" Also, the exaggerated crying.

That's what I see, for what it's worth. Again, you're doing a great job. As someone who needs to work on assertiveness skills, it's inspiring.

-ITN-

Thank you so much!! Yeah, my tone of voice was actually kinda lighthearted sarcasm. Like fake-silly-attitude. But when she repeated my words to me, she changed the tone of voice to exact tone of voice she uses when she is verbally abusive.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2017, 09:32:47 PM »
I have a new invention. It's called the uBPD language translator! It slices (your self-esteem). It dices (your self-confidence) into pieces. It juliennes (any self-worth you have so that you become their ever-loving slave). It minces (any self-love you'll ever try to develop for yourself and make it dependent on their ever-shifting whims and fancy).

Here, let's use the uBPD language translator and see what's going on (really).

uBPD mom: You're so mean to me!
Translation: You're so mean to me because you're not doing my bidding like I want you to, slave! What is wrong with you!?! Know your place, and your world is MINE!

*adjusts the uBPD translator* Sorry, sprinkled a little too much mean electronics in the wiring. :)

uBPD mom: You don't love me! *sobs*
Translation: You don't love me! *crocodile tears* because you're standing up to me instead of running around like a headless chicken doing my bidding and I don't like it! *huffs*

I almost feel like a mad scientist with this thing (probably because I *am* a mad scientist!) *cue diabolical laughter*.

uBPD mom: I'm so afraid of you!
Translation: I'm so afraid of you since I can no longer track you like a wild animal with a microchip implanted because you took your GPS locator off and I can't maintain control of your very existence since you are not an individual, but an extension of *muah!*.

This machine has an aversion to GPS locators being used by uPDs. Please back that GPS location unit AWAY from the device (turn it back on and tie it to something else moving, like an airplane's landing gear flying to Antarctica. ;))

This demonstration of this fine machine and public service announcement has been brought to you by Shockwave Enterprises, Inc. (c) All rights reserves. :)

OK, tongue in cheek over, is she serious with the manipulation attempts and control seizing? I swear, I can see my own uBPD mother trying that stuff on me a long time ago. Silence is golden. ;) Never give them ammo to shoot you with!

This is hilarious! Thank you for making me laugh!!! And for the advice. I will try next time to keep my mouth shut!!! She can try to translate that!!! hahahaha
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2017, 09:42:18 PM »
Any time you say something that stands up to her opinions and isn't you immediately asking, "Yes, mommy!  How high should I jump!?", she goes right for "mean" and she's "scared" because you're so "angry."

That's GOLD!   :yahoo:

If you're so mean and you scare her so much, because you're so angry, she shouldn't be coming over to your house and you shouldn't be having ANY contact with her!


In all seriousness, if you're feeling ready to  drop the rope and walk away, the next time she trots that one out, I'd nod contemplatively and say, "Well, if that's the way you feel - scared of my anger and that I'm mean to you - I think this relationship has come to a natural conclusion, and I'll be blocking your phone number and not having any contact with you in the future, so you feel SAFE."

I'd then hang up the phone and do just that - or hustle her out of your house, even if she's "crying" hysterically, with the words, "I'm sorry - you have to leave.  Obviously, you don't feel safe in my presence, so if you don't leave in the next 30 seconds, I'm calling the police to escort you out of my house."

You don't have to - but it's at least something to consider.   :)

She's upping the game by painting you as the aggressor and her as the poor, put-upon, persecuted victim - and I wouldn't put up with that for ONE second.   :no_shake:

Take her at face value.  Don't try to read into the FOG and manipulation, and definitely don't use Shockwave's awesome and tragically hilarious Translator - take her at her WORD.

Not what she means, but what she actually *says.*

You've heard the old saying, "Give 'em enough rope and they hang themselves."

That's essentially true - and your mom is doing it right now.   :yes:

UnBPD Didi did the same thing.  She'd snot that I shouldn't BOTHER as a means to "motivate" me - so I wouldn't bother, and when she'd call me on it, I'd remind her of her words.  Sometimes she'd say I knew what she meant, and I'd reply, "No, I only know what you SAY, you said not to, case closed."

They *know* we know what they mean when they say certain things - there's an unwritten subtext in these relationships.

Once you become as dumb as a box of rocks, forget the unspoken meanings and rely on words alone - things become MUCH more clear.

If she's afraid of your anger, tone and meanness, you should *definitely* consider putting a period to this relationship - so she can be free of all that negativity she thinks is pointed at her, and go figure out her life on her own.  Fly, little bird!  BE FREE of Dinah's "negativity."   :bigwink:

 :hug:

I love it. I need to try this.

It is so hard though. Right now I don't know what is going on in me. I feel like I might be having and EF. Sick tummy, tight neck, shallow breathing, anxiety. She has been calling a lot today, but I have been too "busy" to talk. Haven't called back. Don't want to talk to her. She is real cheerful today. Probably thinking she made her point and I am going to be very careful not to "scare her."

She called earlier and asked, "Are we still not gossiping?" In reference to a comment I made a few months ago, when I was overwhelmed by negative conversations and said I didn't want to gossip anymore. So I replied to her, "Yes. I don't want to gossip." and she said, "Oh okay. Well nevermind." She seemed lighthearted, but I know she wanted to unleash junk on me.

I just don't feel okay with her acting like I am the aggressor the other day, but then acting all cheerful with me today. So I am avoiding her.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2017, 09:45:42 PM »
Sure she is scared, because her toy is broken, is malfunctioning. You are individuating, becoming your own person, and that is what she has suppressed for years. She has kept you tightly locked in a box and now you found the key and are getting out and she doesn't like it. She is scared of what to do when she doesn't have her toy slave anymore, whom she can do with and to whatever she likes.

You are not mean, you are behaving like a normal adult person, and that isn't what she wants, so she labels you as mean and angry, because she hopes it will scare you back into your box and she can lock you up again GPS included.

She is manipulating you any way she can think of: with tears, unfounded accusations, attacking you in a deniable way in front of others at the family meeting (that was meant to make you feel like a horrible daughter).

I think you are doing extremely well with the way you are setting boundaries, telling her to leave when she disintegrates into tears. Not taking her bait, not going back to your old role but insisting you have a right to your own opinion.

I agree with WI, take her words at face value. She is scared "Mom, I think it might be better if we less of each other, talk less as clearly this isn't good for you."

You aren't doing anything wrong, she is simply trying to force you back into the FOG.

Thank you. I don't feel like I am being mean. I really don't. I do feel FOGGED right now. I am not acting out of FOG, but I feel the FOG.

She is gas lighting you, she is trying to tell you up is down and down is up.

Her behavior towards you is mean and angry (I'm using her words on purpose). Making a face about how you arranged your furniture that is mean and passive aggressive. Breaking down in to sobs to manipulate you that is mean and passive aggressive. Saying the thing about the inheritance is mean and just plain aggressive, and doing so in front of others takes it to a whole new level, but even saying it to you in private would have been mean and aggressive. She is deflecting her behavior onto you.

 :yeahthat:

You put into words EXACTLY what I was feeling was happening. And now she is all super cheerfull and wanting to chat all day. I have been avoiding her.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2017, 09:51:00 PM »
Your mother is still angry that you turned off your GPS.  She's angry that she is losing control over you. 

She wants you to quit standing up for yourself and having an opinion of your own.  She was testing the water, so to speak, with her making motions to rearrange your furniture.  Sure, that's a little thing (in the scheme of things), but your mother wanted to see if you would be compliant and allow her to take charge.  When you didn't pass the test, she became furious.

She is now trying to get you to doubt your character by sowing a seed of doubt in your mind.  She's painting you as "mean" and so "mean" that you "scare" her.  She is playing Persecutor on the Karpman Drama Triangle.  Persecutors are controlling, blaming, critical and superior.  They want someone to bend to their will.  In this case, she wants you to accept her version of reality and begin to doubt yourself.  So you will say things like "Maybe I am mean.  Maybe I should be nicer to Mother.  Maybe I should do everything Mother wants me to do, including rearranging my furniture to suit her and turning my GPS back on so she can track me."

When playing Persecutor didn't seem to phase you, she jumped to Victim and started in with the hysterical crying.  Victims are pitiful, helpless, powerless.  They want someone to Rescue them.  Your mother wanted you to step in and say "It will be alright, Mother.  I'll help you.  I'll do everything you say, including rearranging my furniture to suit you and turning my GPS back on so you can track me."

Although the fake persona is different, the aim for playing Persecutor and Victim is the same:  to get you back in line.  Your mother is a master manipulator and drama queen.  My humble advice to you is to keep on resisting her bullsh*t.

As you continue to resist, expect more and more "tests" and tactics to get you back in line-- e.g., gaslighting, projecting, smear campaign and ST, among others.  You are doing great with your boundaries!

I looked up the Karpman Triangle. I was thinking that in the past I have seen myself as the victim and the rescuer. But those were roles I was programmed to play. Thinking I didn't have a choice. I don't see myself as a Karpman Victim anymore because I am TRYING to take control of my life and not be passive; I can CHOOSE to not play the game. I also, an no longer being the Karpman Rescuer. I realized that she needs to help herself. I can only rescue myself and my children, from the dysfunction of her PD.

It is so crazy though how when her Persecutor role doesn't work, she so immediately slips into Victim. It is scary to me. Because I don't think she has any awareness of what she is doing. She is just desperate to not lose control of me.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 10:06:45 PM »
Please find the threads on manipulation in "common behaviors" and "working on us". Or look up George Simon's postings about manipulation tactics. Your mother is going through every single tactic possible to try to get you back to where you used to be, which worked really well for her but not at all for you.
http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=67263.0
http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=67273.0

I was also told by SIL that uNBPDmil was "intimidated by me." I was also passive to a fault, passive to the point of nearly having a nervous breakdown before I could work up the courage to ask ILs to stop walking into my home unannounced.

Yeah, it's a manipulation tactic. And, in a way, it's working a little bit since you are very much questioning yourself. I don't say this to make you feel bad, but to point out how well these tactics work if we don't know what the PD is trying to do. Feeling confused a lot after interacting with someone is probably a good sign that we are being manipulated.

Ugh, the money thing. It's so classic. Even my uNM is starting to bring money into the conversation rather regularly these days. I think it's a last-ditch effort by a lot of PDs. If nothing else, there's the inheritance.  :barfy:

Thank you so much for the other posts you shared. I think I want to get that George Simon book to read next. I just finished Understanding the Borderline Mother, by Christine Lawson. 

I especially thought this comment on the post you shared (From Bloomie) was especially significant:


Having grown up in a Narcissistic Family system, both parents with uPDs as role models and literally having been manipulated for their benefit from birth and throughout my formative years,  I have a distinct inability to spot manipulative tactics (especially in the moment) and respond appropriately to them.

I was trained up to be dutiful, highly responsible, pleasing, sinless, modest, to keep their secrets and always be giving with no expectation to receive in return. To put the needs of others first always - unless putting the needs of others somehow siphoned off some of my availability to my parents. I was to honor and obey, never question, accept blatant favoritism, physical and verbal abuse, degradation - as my parents right to dish out and yet I was still to maintain a view of them as righteous, good, generous and loving and allow them full access to my life. :no: Any tiny sprouts of independence and defiance where shut down through every means of manipulation I have been able to find in my reading. From religious abuse and manipulation, covert, overt, threats of every kind, disowning, silent treatment, passive aggressive, lying, raging, charm, empty promises, triangulation, coercion, slandering, all of it and so much more.

As a result I have been the mark for a highly skilled manipulator more times than I want to admit even to myself well into adulthood and across every area of my life. It would be too disheartening to even try and quantify how often I have been the mark.

Coming OOTF for me is such a process of untangling all of the threads and wrong thinking that has been woven into the foundational fabric of my life. Sadly, both my FOO and in law family is riddled with highly manipulative uPD people. So one very difficult and tedious task is learning to spot the con and empowering myself to no longer be the mark.



This is so me!!!! Especially too in a spiritual way, once I became religious at 19 years old. I was so easily vulnerable to more abusive conning treatment because I thought even MORE SO, that I needed to be nice to everyone!!!!

Thank you also for sharing the list of manipulative tactics.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2017, 10:09:50 PM »
Just because what you are saying and doing is 100% appropriate adult-child boundaries and expectations, doesn't mean she's in agreement.  She's upset.  Frankly, she's probably "mad as hell".  You're no longer her BFF minion, at her beck and call, and she's putting-on a strong effort to shame-blame-manipulate-gaslight you back into compliance.  So you're on receiving-end of lots of ramped-up weirdness:  1) tears about furniture placement; 2) odd pronouncements of disinheritance; 3) implied accusations of child-neglect; 4) gas-lighting accusations of "being mean" when you're perfectly reasonable; 5) unfounded concerns of "being fearful" when you're being a normal adult; etc.  She's undermining, disrespectful, manipulative, "not nice" herself.  And rather than a loving and empathetic mother to you, she's a significant threat to your emotional well-being.

I dealt with same issues with my malevolent NBM, after we moved 20 minutes from her neighborhood, when 24/7 access to my house and own family was no longer convenient.  NBM was livid at our move decision.  She began my "secret disinheritance", though I was otherwise still NBM's perfectly-executed "good girl/dutiful daughter".  She badgered me about "being mean", her "being fearful" of me, unfounded charges, in response to my minimal boundaries.  Her contrived accusations, projections, and manipulation were meant to shame me into abject submission.  NBM's antics left me frankly exhausted.  I realized radical change, a NC decision, was inevitable, given situation. I think you're reaching same stage.

Thank you for sharing about your similar experience. It helps me to realize that this is really happening, and it happens to other kids of PD's too.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2017, 10:17:11 PM »
So she moved through the D and A portions of DARVO and now she's moved on to RVO.

For anyone out there who isn't familiar with the term, DARVO = Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. It's a very common PD move.

Yes, she's scared because the robot she programmed for so long is no longer functioning properly. Yes, you're mean because you will no longer jump to execute her every whim. She has never heard you stand up for yourself or tell her no, she is misreading confidence and assertiveness as anger. I think there's a good bit of projection going on here as well.

The next time she wants to come over, meet up or chat, I'd counter with, "Probably not a good idea...I don't want you to be scared or uncomfortable. Once you get this issue handled let me know." If she's "afraid" of you, SHE'S the one with the problem, not you...therefore she must be the one to take action. I'm terrified of lizards, but not one lizard has ever gone out of their way to accommodate my issue, because it's MY issue.

 
Hoover, big fat giant Hoover. Look up Karpman Drama Triangle. She's attempting to move you into roll of persecutor. Don't fall for it.
adding - with a huge portion of DARVO on the side. ::)

Thank you for bringing up DARVO. I looked up the link in the glossary here and I studied the description. But what is the best way to handle DARVO?
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2017, 10:23:05 PM »
Take her at face value.  Don't try to read into the FOG and manipulation, and definitely don't use Shockwave's awesome and tragically hilarious Translator - take her at her WORD.

Not what she means, but what she actually *says.*

You've heard the old saying, "Give 'em enough rope and they hang themselves."

That's essentially true - and your mom is doing it right now.   :yes:

UnBPD Didi did the same thing.  She'd snot that I shouldn't BOTHER as a means to "motivate" me - so I wouldn't bother, and when she'd call me on it, I'd remind her of her words.  Sometimes she'd say I knew what she meant, and I'd reply, "No, I only know what you SAY, you said not to, case closed."

They *know* we know what they mean when they say certain things - there's an unwritten subtext in these relationships.

Once you become as dumb as a box of rocks, forget the unspoken meanings and rely on words alone - things become MUCH more clear.
This has been my tactic lately. As difficult as it is for me to forget the hidden meanings and expectations, this has been helping me tremendously. Thanks, WI for putting that into words.

My sister got married about 5 years ago. My parents (BPDM) made comments about not going to the wedding. I confronted them in an email because my sister hadn't done anything wrong. I was respectful and polite but I told them how it was. They were acting as if they were disowning my sister and I didn't feel that she had done anything to deserve that so I wanted them to see how hurtful and harmful their actions were for our family. That was the first time I really stood up to my BPDm. She still brings that up, telling me she's been scared of me for the last 5-6 years (because I spoke my mind for once? Pfffft).

BPDm still uses that too. She is scared of me, scared to say anything to me - simply because I politely decline her criticism (example: "That wasn't very nice" in a neutral tone).

A couple years ago, I went to my parents' house for a visit. BPDm was crying and apologizing for how she takes things too personal sometimes and is hurt by things that shouldn't hurt her. She was blaming it on her job, saying that her job gives her low self-esteem. At least it was an apology...Except, then she kept going on and on listing all of the times that she felt hurt. She listed off "your sister's wedding" and that time I asked her to be a little nicer and more inclusive to my husband, etc. etc. She was sitting there bawling and I was fuming because she was basically telling me that I shouldn't stand up to her or ask her to change her behavior EVER. She was manipulating me to believe that I should just let her say and act however she pleases because she is too sensitive to handle the criticism. I felt SO manipulated. And at the same time, society dictates that you are supposed to comfort someone who is upset so I just sat there and listened. She didn't exactly know she was being manipulative, she was genuinely feeling hurt and upset. It is a really difficult situation to handle. Now I know that it is okay to tell her that it seems that she isn't up to company and leave. I just hope I have the stregth to do that next time.

I think you handled the situation really well, except it sounds like you went round a little bit longer than needed, trying to reason with her. If she was sitting at my dining table, I probably would have done the same thing, honestly. For me, the next step has been realizing that she is always going to have a negative perception of me (no matter what) and working at being okay with her thinking I am a mean bully. If she can't treat me with common decency because I am a human that deserves it then at least her being "scared of me" makes her think twice before opening her mouth.

P.S.) I am also overly quiet and passive, the least scary person there is  ;)
Also, something you might expect - BPDm doesn't have much interest in my life anymore, much the same as AdultChildinthefog experienced. She doesn't ask or comment much on my life at all anymore. It can be hurtful but I think it is for the best.

That is exactly how I feel today. Like she is manipulating me, through her tears and her "fears," not to upset her anymore. I unfortunately don't think it will make her think twice about being hurtful, but instead she wants me to think twice about standing up for myself. Even on the phone the other day she said something, and then real quick in a scared voice said, "oh wait, I didn't mean that to sound bossy, please don't be mad, I know it is your kid." But it felt so fake. She was acting like I was going to jump down my throat because she spoke a sentence about my kid. It also felt like she wanted me to comfort her and say, "it's okay. don't be scared. please tell me what to do"

"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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raindrop

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2017, 10:34:31 PM »
*shudder* I hate the deniability, the pathologicalness, the cognitive-dissonance-creating of what she's doing.
You are doing a great job not getting sucked in, and standing up to it. Come back here when you're confused and we'll remind you: You're not crazy!! And you're not alone :)
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.

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VividImagination

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2017, 10:41:35 PM »
Thank you for bringing up DARVO. I looked up the link in the glossary here and I studied the description. But what is the best way to handle DARVO?

For most PD behaviors the best tactic is to ignore. Like toddlers, the PD is trying to get a reaction. When you ignore the behavior, they switch to a new tactic. Your mother has already done this. Remember the threats that she would have to go to the ER because you took the GPS tracker off your phone? You refused to engage, refused to comply, and now she has changed tactics. Instead of threats and berating, she is playing the "Oh, don't hit me!" as she throws her arms up and cowers (I'm speaking metaphorically, of course) in order to make you feel bad. In the George Simon discussion thread it refers to PDs who use shame and guilt to force compliance. This is what she is doing...trying to make you feel bad for being such an awful bully so that you will go back to your previously compliant self. It is a fascinating mix of DARVO and projection on her part.

Sometimes it can feel like a never-ending cycle of new behaviors. After you ignore this new tactic for awhile (or better yet, keep her at a distance due to her "fears"), she will switch to a new behavior. And a new one. And a new one. Eventually, however, she will tire of repeatedly kicking the PD Supply Vending Machine (you) and getting nothing in return, so she will find a new vending machine and you will be discarded.

It sounds bad, but by the time you get to that point it will be a tremendous relief.
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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practical

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2017, 11:00:34 PM »
she will tire of repeatedly kicking the PD Supply Vending Machine (you) and getting nothing in return, so she will find a new vending machine and you will be discarded.
Love this! Yep, you have to become like the ice cream bar that gets stuck  :bigwink: .

So your M realized playing fearful, terrified child didn't work, so now she is on to cheerful child and made an attempt at gossiping teenager, which you deflected successfully by sticking to your boundary. While it is tiring, the key is you are now observing the cycle instead of being part of it. That is huge! :cheer:
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2017, 02:33:41 AM »
I have to say, you're handling all this extremely well!  It's a great idea to listen to your body and take a day off - or a couple of them - and talk to her only when *you* feel prepared.*   :)

Vivid is right - she's going to keep kicking the vending machine until she gets what she wants, so your best defense is to keep *denying her a supply* through Medium Chill and having less contact - or contact only on YOUR terms.

People as manipulative as your mom have *no shame* and will try a variety of cringe-worthy tactics - melting down in public over nothing is a good one.  Ignore it.  Pretend it's not even happening  - which can be hard, when people are glaring at you and wondering what awful thing you did to that poor little old lady, but believe it or not, you can get used to anything, especially when you realize, "I'm never going to see any of these people again, so they can think what they want."

Why  did Didi melt down?  I refused to read her mind and send her bacon back FOR her.  She had a mouth and it worked just fine.  If she wanted it crisper, she needed to say something, and *not* lie to the waitress, then look to me expectantly.

I shrugged and looked away instead and cue the "hysterics."

I talked about the weather and ignored her.   :ninja:

Another thing she might try are repeated medical "emergencies" - she has to go to the ER, NOW!

Calmly state, "Call an ambulance" as many times as it takes, getting a bit more insistent each time; loud and insistent, without anger.  "CALL.  AN.  AMBULANCE."

After 5 or 6 attempts, you have a couple of options - if it's a real medical emergency and she won't call, hang up and call 911 for her, and if it's just a nuisance complaint, hang up and *ignore it.*   :roll:

She's IN the hospital - again, some more, for all those mystery ailments she's had for years.   :violin:

Find yourself too busy to visit or bring her anything from home.  Don't call daily.  Don't ask about tests.  If she starts banging on about her health, remind her to tell that to her DOCTOR, or ask the nurse to pass a message along to him/her.

If she lives alone and has no pets, don't do a thing at hers, like packing perishables into the freezer.  The spoiled milk and moldy cheese and lunch meat can be her "welcome home!" gifts.   :phoot:

She might also try blaming your DH for your new backbone, insinuating she knows he doesn't like her, and she knows why - either ignore it or blandly say, "Oh, that's interesting...I'll have to talk to him about that." 

She'll probably insist you don't (because it's not true) - blandly say, "I don't keep secrets from my husband" and act like nothing unusual at all has happened.   8-)

Another thing you can do if she tries the whole, "FEARFUL OF YOU!" thing again is to *laugh politely, like she's just told a good joke* and say, "Now you're just being silly!"

Sometimes humor is the *last* thing they expect.  They expect us to take this as seriously as they are - and we DO, but not in the same way or with the same desired outcome!   ;D

Whatever she throws at you - remember, you're wearing Teflon and rubber armor - nothing is gonna stick to you and it's going to bounce right back to her.

Believe me - you'll be absolutely gobsmacked at what she'll stoop to, to get that ice cream bar out of the vending machine.

As she makes more and more attempts, you might find yourself actually *laughing* - because it's all just so Wile E. Coyote orders another gadget from ACME that blows up in his face, spectacularly, while the Road Runner dashes by with nothing more than, "Beep beep!"

And you may find yourself posting stuff like, "Hey guys, you'll never guess what she did this time..."   :doh:

That's how you know you're making progress and seeing all of this for what it really is - a toddler, having a prolonged tantrum and trying every trick in the book!

You've GOT this, Dinah-sore!   :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

 :hug:

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Blueskies

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2017, 08:01:06 AM »
She's trying to get you to back down and go back to her controlling you. Any policing of boundaries is seen as 'aggression'. The 'there's something seriously wrong with you' line is soooo irritating. My uBPM has exactly this attitude....nothing is her fault...it's all me. They only seem to know the aggressor - victim relationship and while they are actually the aggressive ones they see you as the aggressor. It's infuriating but it's part of the illness...you must be all bad because they can't have their sense of self threatened because deep down they are a mess. She's playing the victim to manipulate you in my opinion.

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2017, 01:20:59 PM »
Many cheers :cheer: for you taking back your power! You're doing a great job. Yes it does sound like you're in the middle of EF the way you describe your physical reaction and it's awesome you're choosing to take care of you.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2017, 02:40:56 PM »
Thank you guys for your comments, helpful suggestions, humor, and encouragement. I am so thankful for the support.

This is really hard for me, because my whole life I have been conditioned to be nice. And I really like being nice! I hate fighting and negativity. But to stop the negativity and bring more peace (true peace), I have to say no to her and when she says that I am mean and she is scared of me, it cuts deep into my soul/identity. It is so clever of her because she has to know that isn't who I am, so to redefine me that way, certainly subconsciously motivates me to be more kind. But in this case she wants me to be weak and passive. But I can't. I won't.

But you guys get it!!!!

Thank you!!!

Spring Butterfly, I accidentally hit the link "report to moderator" with my thumb while I was scrolling on my phone! I clicked back to this page as soon as I could!!!! So maybe it didn't really report? But if I did, I am so sorry!!!! It was just my thumb. Your words were so sweet and uplifting!!!!
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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moglow

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2017, 03:12:59 PM »
So let me get this straight - "mean" is now defined as "I'm an individual, thinking with my own mind and about my needs as a human being, rather than following along like lemmings off a cliff"? Duly noted. OWN it, sister!

I'm not saying that you should intentionally inflict pain on or be "mean" to others, but rather consider your own needs first. Rather than continually kowtowing to the ever changing moods and demands of others, sounds like you're simply making your own decisions and what's best for you and your family. Sounds like it's way overdue for all of you. Really, she'll survive.

This isn't punishment and she's not a small child. It's way past time for her to loosen that deathgrip on your life.
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2017, 04:16:00 PM »
:hug: it's good
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth blog

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practical

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2017, 05:03:57 PM »
This is really hard for me, because my whole life I have been conditioned to be nice. And I really like being nice! I hate fighting and negativity.
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I like being nice and kind and hate fighting and negativity just like you, I also like other people not taking advantage of me because I am nice and kind and hate having fights, to abuse me because of this. Your M is abusing your niceness and kindness, she doesn't see it as a strength in your character but a weakness she can take advantage of. And now that you are fighting back, banning the negativity with boundaries she calls you mean and scary. That is her personal definition, and it is a definition with a purpose: to make you be compliant again.

Your boundaries are really healthy! :hug:
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

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guitarman

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Re: BPDm says she is scared of me????
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2017, 09:26:04 AM »
Hello Dinah-sore

You are not alone. Your mother sounds very much like my uBPD/uNPD sister.

She turns from being the abuser to being the victim and tries to get everyone feeling guilty for just reflecting her own behaviour back to her. It's the classic narcissistic cycle of abuse.

What I have found useful is to validate my sister's feelings before she turns into being the victim. It sometimes works.

I tell her how upset she must be feeling. She likes to hear that. I'm acknowledging her feelings which is what she wants but doesn't say so. There is always something that has triggered her or upset her. It can be quite difficult to stay calm and slowly work out what it could be.

She could project her feelings onto something or someone else so it's difficult to backtrack and find out what happened to upset her. It may even be something from years ago that has been triggered by something in the present.

There is the stop, pause, rewind technique that helps sometimes to calm her down. That can help her from going into a full emotional landslide.

You seem to have developed some useful techniques in coping with your mother's behaviour so well done. The more we learn and practice the easier it becomes. Little by little things can change.

It seems your mother is reacting to your assertiveness and boundaries. You are behaving differently than before and she's not used to it. She's so used to herself getting her own way. So don't be surprised if things will get worse before they get better. Remain calm no matter what happens. Don't fuel the fire.

Talk more about your own feelings. Your mother can't argue about that. They are yours not hers. You can say "I" rather than "You". It all helps.

You are doing very well in setting boundaries and talking about your own feelings.

Keep calm. Keep strong.

Best wishes

guitarman
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