I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?

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daughterofbpd

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 02:46:56 PM »
I was so tempted to text her and say "Perhaps you should find someone who isn't emotionally abusive to take you to your surgery appointment in two weeks?"
I think that's a great response, actually. She is completely projecting. Also, calling around pretending to be you and making appointments on your behalf is not only inappropriate but against the law. She's way out of line, Jenn.
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stasia

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2017, 03:10:12 PM »
Oh Jenn, I just want to give you a big hug. You don't deserve ANY of this. You were not abusive. You are not a sociopath. (and if you are, as your M thinks - why the hell does she want you to keep helping her?!) We all raise our voices sometimes. It's OK to be angry. It sounds like you raised your voice because you'd tried other things first and your M was simply ignoring you and not listening. That's not abuse.

I get it - my M also told me she was going to report me for elder abuse when I raised my voice while telling her that she couldn't continue to lie on the floor, but needed to allow me to call 911 and get her medical treatment!

I also have often wished that my M would just hit me, because then I'd have a "good reason" for getting away from her, that others (doctors, social workers, everyone else in the world who was demanding that I be her sole caregiver and emotional support system) would understand. But as everyone else has said, verbal and emotional abuse is abuse too, and you don't have to put up with it. And, when I thought about that further, I realized that even if she did hit me, there would STILL be people who judged me for cutting her off because she's elderly and sooooooo helpless.  :stars:

So, I've been NC (or on a reeeeeeally long time out) for a couple months now. And I admit I feel guilty about it Every Single Day - but my life now is more peaceful without the incessant waifing and demands in my ear. I didn't think I could do it either, because my M doesn't have anyone else and I figured her need to get basic life stuff done was more important than my own mental health. And because I was still terrified of the social workers coming after me and charging me with neglect, if I'm being totally honest. But it's NOT true. My mental health is important. YOUR mental health is important! You don't have to accept this kind of treatment even if she is your mother. (I like the comment upthread about, what if your husband were talking to you like this and calling you an effing sociopath? Would you say that to your own kid? Why do we always take this sort of treatment from our parents when we wouldn't accept it in someone else?)

Anyway, I agree with the others here, that this is an excellent time to drop the rope, and I absolutely WOULD send that text (and then block her). Right now your M isn't seeing any consequences for her bad behavior, and I think it is high time she did.

I also agree that you need to somehow password-protect your medical records in case your M calls your doctor pretending to be you. Thinking about that more, though.... how does she think this is going to work? Call up doctor after doctor and say, "Hi, this is Jenn Lastname, can you tell me if I am a patient there?" until she comes across yours? I would think the staff would get a little suspicious at that.... :) (though I also understand a PD parent's ability to fool people sometimes.)

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bopper

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2017, 03:35:00 PM »
Yes, it was abusive. Terrible terrible abuse. So abusive that you should not be around her anymore or help her :) :) :)
 
"Mom,you need to find some other methods of transportation besides me.  You tell me that something will be quick but inevitably it takes 3 times as long as your estimate.  With having to pick up the kids, this isn't working for me.  The ABC taxi company gets good reviews and also you can contact the Senior Transport for free rides. I think this will work out better for you."

"no it won't,...don't you love me?"

"You called me abusive, so I want to give you space so neither of us will get into that situation anymore. You will be able to take as much time as you need with these other methods and the kids will get picked up on time. Win-win."
Just because they are incapable of loving you, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.
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all4peace

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2017, 04:02:09 PM »
jenn, an interesting article for you to read about "victimized" narcissists: https://graceformyheart.wordpress.com/2015/03/13/victimized-narcissists/

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jennsc85

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2017, 05:23:04 PM »
Another question, are you buying into the societal idea that abuse only counts when it is physical, whether it be hitting or physical neglect? Do you feel if she hits you again, you have something to say to outsiders and they won't question your decision to go for a Time Out with your M, cease to be her whipping girl.

I think this is it exactly. She's been physically abusive to me a handful of times in my life, but it pales in comparison to her rages, tantrums, verbal, emotional, etc. abuse. I've only recently let myself accept that the things she's done and said are abusive. I guess I feel like outsiders understand physical abuse. If I say that my mother slapped me in the face in front of my child or dislocated my thumb by bending it back, they gasp and are horrified. If I tell them that she went on a 30 minute tirade about how ugly I am or called me a sociopath or any number of other things she's said... it just doesn't seem as bad, you know? But really, the verbal and emotional things she's done have bothered me WAY more than any of the physical things. It just seems like that's a more appropriate boundary to have. I don't know why I feel that because I know it's not necessarily true.



She actually texted me the day after all this happened and apologized and said she didn't mean to upset me and asked if I'd like for her to cook me a meal. I know that's because she's thinking about her upcoming surgery and all the things I'm going to have to do for her. She texted me today about all these little errands she needs to run and her usual stuff about "Having an elderly parent is not convenient!" and "Sorry, but euthanizing your elderly parent for being annoying isn't legal yet!" and "Can you imagine if I had cancer? You'd be on a leave from work and waiting on me constantly!"

When she says stuff like this, it makes me want to run 500 miles away from her. I hate it. All her caregiver crap makes me so angry. I AM NOT HER CAREGIVER. It doesn't matter how many times I tell her this, she still says things like this ALL THE TIME and it makes me so so so angry. I would rather sit in a jail cell than be her caregiver. If she gets cancer and needs 24/7 care (which she would LOVE) I don't even know what I would do.

Anyways, I texted her and it's really hard for me to say things like this and I think she knows it. I told her basically "Mom, I am not threatening to withhold help here but I feel like it needs to be said... you cannot continue to call me names, say that I'm a sociopath, mentally ill, rant and rave about how heartless and awful I am... then expect me to help you at every turn. If I had just called someone a sociopath among other things I wouldn't be asking them for help three days later. It just doesn't make sense."

Basically, she acted like I was a 4 year old stomping her foot and saying that I wanted a cookie or something. She says "Honey, you're getting way too deep for me. You're talking about things that have happened a long time ago. I've offered for us to go to a therapist many times and you don't want to. Just drop it until after the surgery OK?"

I feel like that was so condescending of her! Like, everything I said was just fluff to her.

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eternallystuck

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2017, 06:38:05 PM »
The dynamic with your mother reminds me of the one with mine, where my mother was allowed to get as furious as she wanted at me, for pretty much anything (like, say, me at age 5 crying about a broken lollipop in public, oh the HORROR I put that woman through) -- she could rage, scream, hit, ignore, freak out, all of it was justified in her mind, but if I ever dared to get the tiniest bit angry at her for anything it was WWIII. So I grew up never being allowed to ever be angry at my mother. For anything. Ever.

Oh my goodness you just described my lifelong relationship with my M. It makes me want to burst into hysterics at the sheer hypocrisy & self righteousness on her! My m thinks its perfectly ok to launch into an abusive RAGE atme for not putting a jar back correctly (THE AUDACITY! What a HORRID daughter) yet her making me homeless,,, Oh no I'm not allowed to be angry at that or my own ww3 commences too. In fact I 'chose' to be homeless. Under the rug, bobs your uncle!
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eternallystuck

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2017, 06:52:28 PM »
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I don't know if this is a PD parent thing or just something unique to my mother but literally EVERYTHING that she does takes FOREVER and it's always someone/something else's fault. A "quick trip" into the grocery store to get a bunch of bananas that she promises will only take two minutes turns into a 30 minute ordeal

I believe so! It frustrates the hell out of me. My day feels so dragged out whenever I'm around my PD M. For example, if she leaves the car to get petrol & id ask her to get me a drink whilst shes there she will 'forget' then start flapping about how its becos she almost lost her purse, petrols gone up etc etc. One cannot simply get the petrol, drink & return to the car without this dialogue. ALSO you will wait ages for her to be ready then she will snap she's going to be late & have her screaming at you rushing out with one shoe on.

 I believe there's 3 reasons for this. One- I believe simple tasks take them longer as they are somewhat neurotic & avoid logical thinking (very chaotic muddled people). Two- at times I believe it is about control. 'I'll take as long as I want, I'm doing YOU a favour!' (this is an attention seeking game). Three- histrionics, every little trivial detail to normal people is cultivated into some kind of pressing drama that delayed them & evokes guilt in you.

To me it sounds like you were just frustrated with her usual antics making you late. Its totally normal to get stressed when you need to take your child to school. With these people small tasks bring out great frustration and anger because they are not considerate logical people. I would try your best to avoid being near her when you're under time constraints

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Dinah-sore

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2017, 07:22:50 PM »
I am so sorry that you went through this Jenn. I read your post and all the really good comments.

I just wanted to share that I can relate, and that you are NOT abusing her. Like it was said she is grossly abusing you and trying to get you to doubt your own perceptions, and it can work, because we are so used to it that it is so hard to figure out. But you have done a really good job of explaining yourself and you see the truth.

I know you mentioned health problems, and her behavior towards you will most likely make you feel worse. I know that extreme stress like this exacerbates my own symptoms. So please unplug, do self care, be kind to yourself. You truly deserve some TLC. Best wishes.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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practical

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2017, 11:47:32 PM »
She actually texted me the day after all this happened and apologized and said she didn't mean to upset me and asked if I'd like for her to cook me a meal. I know that's because she's thinking about her upcoming surgery and all the things I'm going to have to do for her. She texted me today about all these little errands she needs to run and her usual stuff about "Having an elderly parent is not convenient!" and "Sorry, but euthanizing your elderly parent for being annoying isn't legal yet!" and "Can you imagine if I had cancer? You'd be on a leave from work and waiting on me constantly!"

When she says stuff like this, it makes me want to run 500 miles away from her. I hate it. All her caregiver crap makes me so angry. I AM NOT HER CAREGIVER. It doesn't matter how many times I tell her this, she still says things like this ALL THE TIME and it makes me so so so angry. I would rather sit in a jail cell than be her caregiver. If she gets cancer and needs 24/7 care (which she would LOVE) I don't even know what I would do.
Just FYI, this is all emotional abuse: the "teasing", sarcasm, the cutsiness, suggesting you want her dead, the ignoring your kind request to not say anything like it. And if she had cancer 24/7, you would buy the biggest fence available at Home Depot for boundaries (or could move as a last resort, I always wanted to disappear into the jungle of Papua-Newguniea when it came to FOO :upsidedown: )  and like many others who simply don't have family she would figure it out, the world would neither collapse, nor come of its axis and be swallowed by a wormhole. This is something you have to assure yourself off, if you step out of her life, out of the role of being her servant, yes, her world will temporarily be worse, but the world as such will stay intact, and as your M had her parents, then your F, now you, she'll find somebody else to serve her. F did, he found himself two new people and I would never have thought so. He became quite resourceful and the pity act works really wonders in drafting new servants apparently  :roll: . This is something you might not be aware of, you are actually disposable to her. It must sound totally crazy to you given how much she depends on you for the littlest things, but you are. At least that has been my experience and that of others over at the Elderly Parents board. If you had told me two years ago my F would have replaced me, I would have told you you are crazy, no way, but he did once I started to malfunction. I was no better than a broken toaster for $10. Sure, he hit me a few times to see whether I would work again, but when I didn't, he replaced me. You are asking her to be nice, you are reasoning with her, but so far for her there are no visible consequences to her behavior. Case in point:
Anyways, I texted her and it's really hard for me to say things like this and I think she knows it. I told her basically "Mom, I am not threatening to withhold help here but I feel like it needs to be said... you cannot continue to call me names, say that I'm a sociopath, mentally ill, rant and rave about how heartless and awful I am... then expect me to help you at every turn. If I had just called someone a sociopath among other things I wouldn't be asking them for help three days later. It just doesn't make sense."

Basically, she acted like I was a 4 year old stomping her foot and saying that I wanted a cookie or something. She says "Honey, you're getting way too deep for me. You're talking about things that have happened a long time ago. I've offered for us to go to a therapist many times and you don't want to. Just drop it until after the surgery OK?"

I feel like that was so condescending of her! Like, everything I said was just fluff to her.
And it was her who behaved again like a 4 year old, not you, and it is all fluff to her as long as there are no consequences. The first time she demands you do A, B and C for her, you say No, and then really don't show up to drive her wherever, or she abuses you and you say "I won't be driving you for the next month nor will I be talking to you, I need a Time Out" and then follow through, only then will she start thinking what you say isn't fluff. - I don't mean to sound harsh, it is something I had to learn the hard way myself. I would write endless letters to F reasoning with him, asking him to be more respectful, and he would just shrug them off, tell me not to bother him, I did it for years, till I finally got it into my brain I would have to add consequences (thanks OOTF!)  just like you do with a child, who has his time in the cookie jar for the 8th time or throws another temper tantrum. She doesn't hear your words, because she can ignore them without any detriment to her.

Another question, are you buying into the societal idea that abuse only counts when it is physical, whether it be hitting or physical neglect? Do you feel if she hits you again, you have something to say to outsiders and they won't question your decision to go for a Time Out with your M, cease to be her whipping girl.

I think this is it exactly. She's been physically abusive to me a handful of times in my life, but it pales in comparison to her rages, tantrums, verbal, emotional, etc. abuse. I've only recently let myself accept that the things she's done and said are abusive. I guess I feel like outsiders understand physical abuse. If I say that my mother slapped me in the face in front of my child or dislocated my thumb by bending it back, they gasp and are horrified. If I tell them that she went on a 30 minute tirade about how ugly I am or called me a sociopath or any number of other things she's said... it just doesn't seem as bad, you know? But really, the verbal and emotional things she's done have bothered me WAY more than any of the physical things. It just seems like that's a more appropriate boundary to have. I don't know why I feel that because I know it's not necessarily true.
Given that your M has hit you, could you use it as a crutch? You could simply say "My M is abusive" and if anybody asks - and most people won't - say "She has hit me" or imo better "This is private/a difficult/painful topic for me and I don't want to discuss it any further", because really, why should you have to JADE with acquaintances, even friends? It also closes the topic. You don't owe an explanation to anybody. Emotional, verbal abuse is abuse without bruises, it is still abuse and you don't need to specify which kind of abuse to anybody. - I think this is where the gas lighting partially comes to haunt us, when we are made to feel it is all in our head. Here is a perfect example how your M gaslights you very subtly into believing it is less than it is and makes you feel guilty for thinking it is anything: "Honey, you're getting way too deep for me. You're talking about things that have happened a long time ago. I've offered for us to go to a therapist many times and you don't want to. Just drop it until after the surgery OK?"

Quote
But really, the verbal and emotional things she's done have bothered me WAY more than any of the physical things.
You aren't alone there. Emotional, verbal abuse makes you question your reality, while you have no doubts about a bruise you have sustained. Also, I find it easier to get angry at physical abuse and it causes more of a natural defense mechanism, a fight or flight reaction that is potentially healthy. With emotional abuse this is often suppressed for me and I stay way too long in the line of fire. When you are with your M her emotional and verbal abuse is pretty constant, imagine she would physically hit you with the same frequency as she spews sentences at you, that each sentence was a hit with a baseball bat, then you might feel similar about physical abuse as you feel now about the emotional, verbal abuse. What I'm trying to get at is that her emotional and verbal abuse are constant, they are insidious in your interactions with your M, and if she would physically instead of verbally hit you with the same frequency and consistency you would long be gone. Could you try to equate her sentences in your mind with being beaten to help yourself see the dimension of what she is doing to you? So each sentence like  "Sorry, but euthanizing your elderly parent for being annoying isn't legal yet!" is another hit with the baseball bat?

Sending you strength and a :bighug:
“If I’m not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when I’m only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” (Rabbi Hillel)

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FromTheSwamp

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2017, 03:31:21 AM »
"Honey, you're getting way too deep for me. You're talking about things that have happened a long time ago. I've offered for us to go to a therapist many times and you don't want to. Just drop it until after the surgery OK?"

No, Mom, I'm talking about your behavior that happens every time you get in the car with me.  You need to make other arrangements for your surgery.  You have to figure this stuff out for yourself.  I don't feel safe with you in the car with me - I haven't for a long time and it's only been getting worse.

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Blueskies

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2017, 05:42:36 AM »
Another question, are you buying into the societal idea that abuse only counts when it is physical, whether it be hitting or physical neglect? Do you feel if she hits you again, you have something to say to outsiders and they won't question your decision to go for a Time Out with your M, cease to be her whipping girl.

I think this is it exactly. She's been physically abusive to me a handful of times in my life, but it pales in comparison to her rages, tantrums, verbal, emotional, etc. abuse. I've only recently let myself accept that the things she's done and said are abusive. I guess I feel like outsiders understand physical abuse. If I say that my mother slapped me in the face in front of my child or dislocated my thumb by bending it back, they gasp and are horrified. If I tell them that she went on a 30 minute tirade about how ugly I am or called me a sociopath or any number of other things she's said... it just doesn't seem as bad, you know? But really, the verbal and emotional things she's done have bothered me WAY more than any of the physical things. It just seems like that's a more appropriate boundary to have. I don't know why I feel that because I know it's not necessarily true.



She actually texted me the day after all this happened and apologized and said she didn't mean to upset me and asked if I'd like for her to cook me a meal. I know that's because she's thinking about her upcoming surgery and all the things I'm going to have to do for her. She texted me today about all these little errands she needs to run and her usual stuff about "Having an elderly parent is not convenient!" and "Sorry, but euthanizing your elderly parent for being annoying isn't legal yet!" and "Can you imagine if I had cancer? You'd be on a leave from work and waiting on me constantly!"

When she says stuff like this, it makes me want to run 500 miles away from her. I hate it. All her caregiver crap makes me so angry. I AM NOT HER CAREGIVER. It doesn't matter how many times I tell her this, she still says things like this ALL THE TIME and it makes me so so so angry. I would rather sit in a jail cell than be her caregiver. If she gets cancer and needs 24/7 care (which she would LOVE) I don't even know what I would do.

Anyways, I texted her and it's really hard for me to say things like this and I think she knows it. I told her basically "Mom, I am not threatening to withhold help here but I feel like it needs to be said... you cannot continue to call me names, say that I'm a sociopath, mentally ill, rant and rave about how heartless and awful I am... then expect me to help you at every turn. If I had just called someone a sociopath among other things I wouldn't be asking them for help three days later. It just doesn't make sense."

Basically, she acted like I was a 4 year old stomping her foot and saying that I wanted a cookie or something. She says "Honey, you're getting way too deep for me. You're talking about things that have happened a long time ago. I've offered for us to go to a therapist many times and you don't want to. Just drop it until after the surgery OK?"

I feel like that was so condescending of her! Like, everything I said was just fluff to her.

First of all, her slapping you and dislocating your thumb is not just horrifying - it's assault. It would have been grounds to get the police involved and a mental health crisis team. Her calling you ugly and the verbal abuse IS horrifying. Being witnessed is a really important thing for abuse victims and traumatised people, but often we're too scared to tell anyone in case we aren't believed or people say it's not that bad and then we can get retraumatised.

This barrage of manipulation "Having an elderly parent is not convenient!" and "Sorry, but euthanizing your elderly parent for being annoying isn't legal yet!" and "Can you imagine if I had cancer? You'd be on a leave from work and waiting on me constantly!" is horrible. It's designed to get you to back down. It is one massive guilt trip, full of entitlement, expectation, and blame. She's expecting you to give up everything to care for her. That is not your legal responsibility. What's not 'convenient' is having an extremely abusive parent!!

I think your response was great. Well done for standing up for yourself. I've done this recently and also got a really patronising response as though I as a 2 year old having a tantrum.

And I'm sorry but "you cannot call me names" is not going "way too deep", even for a small child. It's about as basic as it gets. It's a very patronising way of trying to shut you up. It might help to tell her simply "If you do x, y, z again, these will be the consequences", it might make it a bit more immediate so she can't dismiss it as the distant past or too complicated for her to understand.

Someone once said to me, you have to put your own oxygen mask on first - ie you have to put yourself first. If this woman is damaging your mental health then you need to protect yourself. I came across a thing on human rights the other day and the thing that jumped out for me was "you have a right to feel safe". If you don't feel safe with someone, something needs to change. If they won't back off then you need to get away from them.



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Rock Chick

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2017, 06:04:04 AM »
So, that's over. Then she tells me that on her way home she needs me to stop by some place for her to send a fax. I don't know if this is a PD parent thing or just something unique to my mother but literally EVERYTHING that she does takes FOREVER and it's always someone/something else's fault. A "quick trip" into the grocery store to get a bunch of bananas that she promises will only take two minutes turns into a 30 minute ordeal because she also saw such and such on sale and she couldn't go through the quick scan because blah blah blah and then there was a long line and who would have thought? and the cashier was rude so she had to complain to customer service, and can you believe...

This is what happens nearly everywhere that's supposed to be "quick."  :wacko:

Today it was sending a fax. She's in the place for over 15 minutes when I call her and ask what's going on. OH, the fax machine was broken so they're sending it on their personal fax and it's actually 8 pages instead of 4 and she had NO IDEA it would take this long. She was only trying to save me time from sending me out to do it myself... whatever.

It's def. not just your mother and as for being a PD thing I'm starting to think it is possibly a PD thing esp if with things being every time or almost every time go out. My bf's malignant bpd etc 54 yr old mother is the same way rather its running into Walgreens to pick up her prescription or stopping at Speedway for her cancer sticks and soda. She will say she will only be 2 minutes or 5 minutes but those turn into 10, 20, 30 mins. Then she will make some excuse like her card was acting up or the guy at the counter was being a jerk or how it was busy inside despite there only being maybe 2 cars in the parking lot that arent my bfs car and the employees cars. We have told her if she doesnt come out in the time she says she will only be then we will either leave her there or we wont take her for awhile. Most the time my bf holds to our words but with way she is it can be hard for him at times. She is an abusive person...physically abusive not so much its more emotional mental verbal etc abuse.

Oh pulling the Everyone Card, God/Religion card, You deserve Card that is a classic move... my bfs mother pulls the God card once and awhile then I gently remind her a few verses (or the rest of whatever line she says) n tell her I am not going to sit there and take her negativity and I leave the room. The You Deserve Card is a favorite card of hers she uses too and more frequently than the God card. Then the slamming doors how passive aggressive n childish my bfs mother does this but more with bedroom and apartment doors than car doors.

I think sometimes it bothers us when our PD person in our life rather a parent, spouse, significant other etc calls us something we are not and or accuses of something we didnt say or do. We just have to remember (although it can be hard to) that they are really talking about themselves and projecting their own stuff onto us and they live in their own lil reality/world that rarely if ever matches actual reality.  I think you not replying to her many texts was a good idea perhaps blocking her number etc so she cant call you text you email etc would be wise rather permanently or temporarily. Hopefully she will run out of fuel and wont be to continue the fire she started. I think she needs to start finding other ways to appointments etc. too. There are many services medical insurances and places offer to get seniors and disabled adults etc from home to doctors etc and back and if she isnt either then she needs to call a taxi or uber or neighbor or something. You dont deserve how she is treating you and you are NOT abusive. Having an opinion is not abusive nor raising your voice once because she isnt listening to you about needing to go cuz you have plans that are time sensitive or whatnot. She is only one that is being negative and abusive.

Hugs to you! Feel free to post anytime :)

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VividImagination

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2017, 09:49:39 AM »
She essentially told you to just shut up and forget about everything that just happened as Her Majesty has a surgery and you WILL attend her! Now stop being childish! She appears to believe that she can do and say ANYTHING she wants to you and you will still come running when she snaps her fingers.

If you don't ever walk away and force her to be independent, she never will. Why would she? Would your kids have ever learned to walk if you carried them forever?

She wants you to be the mommy, apparently...so do it. Make the giant baby grow up. She's been an infant for sixty years too long. Let her figure her own life out. She can...We all can. Having a slave to abuse while being waited on hand and foot is just WAY more fun....for her. She's made her expectations clear...you'll be wiping her butt into your own retirement.

Make yourself clear. Once she uses you up and tosses you out like your dad and grandpa, who's next? Your kids?
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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free1111

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2017, 01:07:37 PM »
I just want to echo others urging you to padsword protect your medical information. You mentioned Medicaid so it sounds like you are in the US so obviously medical practices already have confidentiality procedures but it wouldn't hurt to add something like a randomly generated set of letters and numbers your mother couldn't possibly ever guess, versus something she would know like your SSN.

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SunnyMeadow

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2017, 01:27:01 PM »
Make yourself clear. Once she uses you up and tosses you out like your dad and grandpa, who's next? Your kids?

That's a terrifying thought!

Are you able to talk to your husband about all of this Jenn? I ask because I started talking and sharing how I feel about my uNPDm with my husband and he's the one who helps me talk through things when I start feel the FOG. He's been telling me things about my mom from years past that I didn't (or couldn't) see. Things like, his family all thinks my mother is an awful, mean woman but I never knew it. They acted very cordially to her for 30 years.

Only now that I'm coming Out of the FOG are people closest to me feeling like they can tell me things she's done and said throughout the years. It's been an eye opener! It explains why EVERYONE in her life has dumped her, everyone but me and my step-dad.

From her dinking around at the fax place, to calling you vile names, threatening that you have to take care of her...these are all justifiable reasons NOT to be her caretaker during her upcoming surgery. After how badly she's been treating you, she doesn't deserve your help. She doesn't care about you as a person, she cares about what she can get from you.  :no:

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Terichan

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2017, 03:46:56 PM »
I guess I feel like outsiders understand physical abuse. If I say that my mother slapped me in the face in front of my child or dislocated my thumb by bending it back, they gasp and are horrified. If I tell them that she went on a 30 minute tirade about how ugly I am or called me a sociopath or any number of other things she's said... it just doesn't seem as bad, you know? But really, the verbal and emotional things she's done have bothered me WAY more than any of the physical things. It just seems like that's a more appropriate boundary to have. I don't know why I feel that because I know it's not necessarily true.

Jenn, this part of your post stuck out to me, and I think it's because both of us were raised by PD parents. I used to have the same desire: to have other people see and understand how abusive my parents' behavior was and have other people believe me and validate me on that topic. I think it might come from our lifelong and mostly unfulfilled need for approval from others.

But a few years ago I started realizing -- what other people think about the way my parents treated me is not the important part. The important part is my parents were being abusive to ME, I was there, I experienced it, I know what they did and how it made ME feel, and that was enough. So it doesn't matter if other people don't think that your mother calling you ugly and a sociopath and all that stuff "isn't all that bad" -- it's that bad to YOU and your opinion is the one that truly matters here.

YOU get to decide what your boundaries are, you don't need to figure out what someone else would think is "appropriate". If you think setting a boundary after enduring 30 minutes of verbal and emotional abuse in the car is appropriate, then it is. End of story. You get to protect yourself from her, you don't need to wait until she physically hurts you again, and you don't need to justify yourself to anyone else. 

I also think that her blowing off everything you said in your text like it was fluff, some of it stems from the lack of you imposing consequences on her for her horrible behavior in the past, she knows she can get away with it. This "Just drop it until after the surgery" crap is more of the same, she behaved abominably and yet she still expects you to go ahead and run a bunch of errands for her and help her with this surgery anyway. Imposing consequences on her will probably mean that her behavior gets worse at first (and it may never get better), but the alternative is that you do nothing and keep exposing yourself to her abuse again and again.

SHOW her you're not her caregiver by... not being her caregiver! Let her figure out this surgery thing on her own, she doesn't deserve your help after the way she abused you, it's up to YOU to take this thing into your own hands and refuse to do stuff for her any more. Or else all you're in for is more of the same for years, possibly decades to come.

 :bighug: you're a goodhearted person and you don't deserve this.
“Sometimes your joy is the source of your smile, but sometimes your smile can be the source of your joy.”
― Thich Nhat Hanh

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FromTheSwamp

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2017, 10:31:57 PM »
If you help her with this surgery, there will just be something else after it.  The "emergencies" will never end. 

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bopper

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2017, 04:32:08 PM »
"Mom, you remember that when you said "Can you imagine if I had cancer? You'd be on a leave from work and waiting on me constantly!"?   I want to tell you now that no, I wouldn't be.  Leave from work means not getting paid. I will not be doing that.  This is making me wake up to the fact that you think I will set aside my life to be your full time caregiver.  I cannot do that. I will not do that. I have my own family to take care of.  Start looking into visiting nurse services. I want to be your daughter, not your nurse."
Just because they are incapable of loving you, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.
Anything makes the false self appear real is supply.

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Medowynd

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2017, 05:11:49 PM »
Jenn, it is time to let this woman go.  She is not any kind of a mother, but rather an assortment of the most evil swear words around.  I would tell her that she will need to make her own arrangements for transportation, surgery care and aftercare.  If someone spoke to your daughter this way, they wouldn't know if they were coming or going, because you would never tolerate this.

YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO HER!  Just because she was the egg donor, it does not give her ownership rights to your life.  Let her make her own way.  If she is 64 she can go on early SS and will have other services available to her next year when she turns 65.  I am horrified every time I read about how evil this woman is to you.  You do not deserve it and never have.  Improve your life and remove this malevolent woman from it. 

I was VVVLC with my UNmom for many years and I learned to get over the guilt trips.  I breathed free and gave up the eggshell walking, the guilt trips that I refused to take anymore and avoided the ever constant yelling.

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carrots

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Re: I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2017, 10:34:26 AM »
Jenn, not knowing you or your story too well, when I first read this " I know I reacted badly, but was it really "abusive"?" I assumed that that was something M had asked you! I thought "Wow! M's pretty far along" Of course I have since realized that's not something your M would do. Just wanted to let you know that I think the question you asked at the beginning of this is the question some of us hope our abusers / enablers might come up with (but won't of course). Idk if this makes sense to you, but it's as if you're asking the question that your M should be. More of this projection lark. Not your fault!

It also occured to me that if my sibs read all what you wrote, they'd say something like "What on earth is carrots complaining about?? Now that's a really deranged M here!" Even my M might see some of the abuse in your situation. But that possibility in no way excuses or diminishes what was done to me by M! So it's the same with physical injuries or lack thereof. You don't have to end up in hospital for them to count as abuse. They aren't even necessary at all to count as abuse and for you to have a reason to set a very definite limit! I know others have posted that, but sometimes I find it useful myself when more than one person tells me that my FOO is out of line. So maybe you will too.